I see Drakel is using specious nonsense to try to claim certain people (including himself, how very convenient) aren't killers. I realize that I'm also nominally free from speculation if we were to accept this absurd reasoning, but fuck that noise, I'm here to actually find the killer through logical analysis and deduction. There is no reason whatsoever that one member of a couple cannot be a killer. The fact that there is likely a matchmaker role means that one of the couples is very probably tied together by said role, and the other exists just to throw doubt into things so we don't know for sure who the matchmade couple is. The matchmaker could have randomly gotten lucky and picked the killer for part of the pair, and Shy very easily could have picked the killer to be part of the other couple for the sake of further drama and to hoodwink those who think like Drakel.

Furthermore, there is even less reason to discount one of the brothers as the killer just because they happen to be brothers. That makes no sense at all. "They're proud brothers so neither of them is the killer!" Right, because a killer can't be a proud brother? Just like someone in a relationship could never kill anyone, huh? A huge key of this equation is that in the story the killer has been hired, they're not just some random murderous bastard who wandered in off the street. For people with lots of money troubles, or for greedy people, money can be one hell of an incentive to do bad things, up to and including murder. No romantic or brotherly relationship would prevent one so inclined to do bad things for money from going through and doing so.

Also, I'm just gonna go ahead and note that Drakel seems highly suspicious to me now due to his ham-handed attempt to remove suspicion from himself. The brothers seem like a tacked on addition just to muddy the waters and make it seem like he wasn't just trying to lay a blanket of protection over himself, as it might have been even more obvious he was doing so were he only able to point out four people (including himself) who nobody should suspect right now. Seems like just the kind of thing a killer who's not very good at RD would try to do, y'know?

Jorick said
I see Drakel is using specious nonsense to try to claim certain people (including himself, how very convenient) aren't killers. I realize that I'm also nominally free from speculation if we were to accept this absurd reasoning, but fuck that noise, I'm here to actually find the killer through logical analysis and deduction. There is no reason whatsoever that one member of a couple cannot be a killer. The fact that there is likely a matchmaker role means that one of the couples is very probably tied together by said role, and the other exists just to throw doubt into things so we don't know for sure who the matchmade couple is. The matchmaker could have randomly gotten lucky and picked the killer for part of the pair, and Shy very easily could have picked the killer to be part of the other couple for the sake of further drama and to hoodwink those who think like Drakel.Furthermore, there is even less reason to discount one of the brothers as the killer just because they happen to be brothers. That makes no sense at all. "They're proud brothers so neither of them is the killer!" Right, because a killer can't be a proud brother? Just like someone in a relationship could never kill anyone, huh? A huge key of this equation is that in the story the killer has been hired, they're not just some random murderous bastard who wandered in off the street. For people with lots of money troubles, or for greedy people, money can be one hell of an incentive to do bad things, up to and including murder. No romantic or brotherly relationship would prevent one so inclined to do bad things for money from going through and doing so.Also, I'm just gonna go ahead and note that Drakel seems highly suspicious to me now due to his ham-handed attempt to remove suspicion from himself. The brothers seem like a tacked on addition just to muddy the waters and make it seem like he wasn't just trying to lay a blanket of protection over himself, as it might have been even more obvious he was doing so were he only able to point out four people (including himself) who nobody should suspect right now. Seems like just the kind of thing a killer who's not very good at RD would try to do, y'know?

MAYBE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET US TO LYNCH DRAKLE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO KILL HIM! HMMMM KILLER? EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

Jorick said
Also, I'm just gonna go ahead and note that Drakel seems highly suspicious to me now due to his ham-handed attempt to remove suspicion from himself. The brothers seem like a tacked on addition just to muddy the waters and make it seem like he wasn't just trying to lay a blanket of protection over himself, as it might have been even more obvious he was doing so were he only able to point out four people (including himself) who nobody should suspect right now. Seems like just the kind of thing a killer who's not very good at RD would try to do, y'know?

Drakel for Wolf 2014! Vote for Drakel!

Captain Jordan said
Drakel for Wolf 2014! Vote for Drakel!

Bela will forever be wolf.

Jorick said
I see Drakel is using specious nonsense to try to claim certain people (including himself, how very convenient) aren't killers. I realize that I'm also nominally free from speculation if we were to accept this absurd reasoning, but fuck that noise, I'm here to actually find the killer through logical analysis and deduction. There is no reason whatsoever that one member of a couple cannot be a killer. The fact that there is likely a matchmaker role means that one of the couples is very probably tied together by said role, and the other exists just to throw doubt into things so we don't know for sure who the matchmade couple is. The matchmaker could have randomly gotten lucky and picked the killer for part of the pair, and Shy very easily could have picked the killer to be part of the other couple for the sake of further drama and to hoodwink those who think like Drakel.Furthermore, there is even less reason to discount one of the brothers as the killer just because they happen to be brothers. That makes no sense at all. "They're proud brothers so neither of them is the killer!" Right, because a killer can't be a proud brother? Just like someone in a relationship could never kill anyone, huh? A huge key of this equation is that in the story the killer has been hired, they're not just some random murderous bastard who wandered in off the street. For people with lots of money troubles, or for greedy people, money can be one hell of an incentive to do bad things, up to and including murder. No romantic or brotherly relationship would prevent one so inclined to do bad things for money from going through and doing so.Also, I'm just gonna go ahead and note that Drakel seems highly suspicious to me now due to his ham-handed attempt to remove suspicion from himself. The brothers seem like a tacked on addition just to muddy the waters and make it seem like he wasn't just trying to lay a blanket of protection over himself, as it might have been even more obvious he was doing so were he only able to point out four people (including himself) who nobody should suspect right now. Seems like just the kind of thing a killer who's not very good at RD would try to do, y'know?

What? I'm just saying the only thing I noticed, which was "The master" said there was only one killer and that half the game are in couples that so far seem really happy with one another. Of course there is a possibility to be hoodwinked but right now there is literally no proof of anything other than that, maybe we'll know more by the next turn but still that's my observation. I'll admit I'm not too sure on that right now either but until we gain further proof I'm going to say all couples (including the two brothers) are safe and are not the killer.

Now the reason I'm not sure on squee and me's couple nor you and Nat's... me and squee just looked at each other, making me think there there may be a possibility that our marriage isn't working out, which would include her in my personal list of a possible killer again though as I said I'm gong to play it safe and say we're a nice happy couple until proof says otherwise... But in the end, with what we're given, it's logic that a married couple knows one another pretty well. Which is why I'm saying she's good.

Nat and you are also just BFs.. Which is nothing serious and could even be a very recent in your relationship as well, but you and nat grabbed each other which imo symbolizes you both love each other and I'm also considering that there might not be gay marriage where we're at so you guys could also have known each other for years but haven't gotten married. So again, until further proof is given you're not the killer either.

Now the two that I KNOW can't be the killer would be K 97 and Alpha... They are brothers and are proud of such and even joined the game together. In all Rabbit doubts the game continues until the killer kills everyone, that would mean that if one of them was the killer, than he would have to kill the other brother, which to me is something that is very unlikely since they ARE proud brothers... like really Jorick if you were proud of your brother would you really kill him? I highly suspect your answer would be no, which helps my point. They can't possibly be the killer cause if one of them was the killer, than it's likely that that killer would have to kill their brother too, which wouldn't make a good story if they truly were proud of each other as the OP states. So yes, they will not get my vote at all because I know they can't be it. It's ignorant and illogical if you suspect otherwise until we gain proof that they really hate each other... Which I highly doubt.

Now this isn't me saying "guys I ain't the killer" or "Guys the killer MUST be ____" I honestly don't know who the killer is and you probably are right, I could be wrong about squee, you and nat... But for now, by what we are so far given that's the only observation that I have of the situation... The killers MIGHT be you, squee, nat, alpha or k97, but from what I see they probably aren't UNTIL PROOF SAYS OTHERWISE.

My observation was a really simple one Jorick, but instead just for sake of tl;dr...

1) The Master says there is only ONE killer (besides himself), the killer was also a hired gun.
2) Me and Squee are married, which means we probably know each other for years. Means unless we are in a bad relationship, she's not the killer imo.
3) You and Nat are a gay couple, and seem happy to be such so you probably aren't it until we're given a time on how long you've been together.
4) Alpha and K97 are proud brothers and can't be the killer imo because it just wouldn't make sense story wise.

Again, until I gain proof that any one of the three pairs aren't happy with one another or have a huge motive to kill the other, they are safe from any form of lynch from me... Take my observation as you will but for right now it's good to at least try to determine who isn't a killer even though we can't determine who is.

Also, about that final statement about what I'm doing being "Newb killer" on my part I'd like to remind you that I've been in almost every doubt so far, I think I know how to play a killer when I am one and I do know what I did is a suspicious move, which is why I did it. If I wasn't content with my role would I really do such a dangerous move? I'm not as dumb as you may believe Jorick... Plus the next turn is coming up so more proof on who the killer may be would spotting the killer would be a lot more easy.

natsumehack said
Bela will forever be wolf.

Where the fuck is Bela anyways? Like she died and shit as soon as I started Spam... Does anyone even know if she's even still alive?

Thank god my role let's me check a person for the killer.

Seravee said
Two degrees! Secondary education and social studies (which allows me to teach history, government, geography, Econ, etc.).

Nice! xD

So I take it you plan on being a teacher? Awesome! What kind?

Drakel said
2) Me and Squee are married, which means we probably know each other for years. Means unless we are in a bad relationship, she's not the killer imo.

Mr. & Mrs. Smith disagree with your point.

Alphakoka said
Mr. & Mrs. Smith disagree with your point.

I... But.... You know what.... I disagree because.... Your wrong cause.... You see...

Fuck... That is the most valid point ever... though If there is only one killer than the situation can't be like that...

Still though...

Tou-fucking-che...

Squee could be my wife and still a hitman, and in the end If we were both alive Shy could make it to where she doesn't kill me, I'm shocked as hell and we both leave and live happily ever after. But that doesn't make much sense imo either and I doubt Shy would do that too.

But as I said, You and K97, in my opinion, can't possible be the killer, There is just no possible way without saying "fuck logic" to it.

What if it turns out Alphakoka was a killer?

natsumehack said
What if it turns out Alphakoka was a killer?

Than I'd be more lost than ever...

Okay, Drakel, lemme take a cherry picked quote from your long post to emphasize why your claims are ridiculous and baseless.

Drakel said
if they truly were ... as the OP states.

You're assuming that the GM, whose purpose is to deceive the players, is giving everything to you straight. Ever heard of the unreliable narrator trope? That could absolutely be in play, especially since the entire post was from the point of view of the character Shy and he could have been reading into things very incorrectly. Alternatively, things could appear one way on the surface but be very different elsewhere. The relationship between you and Squee could be a loveless shell of a marriage. The relationship between me and Nat could be a recent and shallow thing wherein we truly know nothing of each other. The brothers could appear to be proud but have a lot of deep-seated resentment and jealousy. And finally, I reiterate that the GM's purpose is to fuck with us and deceive us, and that alone should be enough to discount any notions of love between characters freeing them from suspicion, because that would be playing into the hands of both Shy and the killer. The fact that these pairs are coming into the game as pairs means absolutely nothing in a game of Rabbit Doubt.

Okay... Just to clarify... I'm going to do the OT's favorite "Break a post down" thing...

Jorick said
Okay, Drakel, lemme take a cherry picked quote from your long post to emphasize why your claims are ridiculous and baseless.

First off, I'm not saying anything is 100%, I'm saying as far as I could read there is so far proof that they're unlikely to be killer since there is only one until we gain some proof against these couples... I said this several times.

Jorick said You're assuming that the GM, whose purpose is to deceive the players, is giving everything to you straight. Ever heard of the unreliable narrator trope? That could absolutely be in play, especially since the entire post was from the point of view of the character Shy and he could have been reading into things very incorrectly.

Not really, What I was doing was saying "Hey, I just noticed something that should be of note" Yes I've heard of Narrator Trope. Yes I know Shy can use it and baffle us all. Yes I know this is all in the point of view of Shy... This is but the first post though what I'm saying is that after observing it I noticed that there is only one killer, no more and that the couples are seemingly unlikely so far in the story... This means two thing, either the killer is someone who is single or is someone within the couples and would be an easier spot later on in the story.

Once we see a problem in someone's relationship it'll show motive of one of the partners killing the other and thus making things a bit more easier to spot, that's why I said you should note it down.

Jorick said Alternatively, things could appear one way on the surface but be very different elsewhere. The relationship between you and Squee could be a loveless shell of a marriage.

I just said that... Only difference is that I said that we seem like we have a happy marriage though the chances of that being just for show is fairly equal to it not being such... once the next turn or a few after comes there should be enough proof to determine if it is or isn't...

Jorick said The relationship between me and Nat could be a recent and shallow thing wherein we truly know nothing of each other.

I just said that as well.. again, same thing as above...

Jorick said The brothers could appear to be proud but have a lot of deep-seated resentment and jealousy.

That is a possibility if Shy waves his hand in the air and says "fuck all" but as I said, so far if one of them was the killer the ends really just doesn't justify the means. It'd make little sense imo. When you read how they talk it seems as though K97 brought Alpha to team up and help them win grand prize, they are both proud to be brothers by just how things were written in the OP... One Killing the other really just doesn't seem right. To make any sense of this would be if they both were killers, but as OP said there was only one.

K97 yes does have military training but that is also way too obvious for a killer too.. He is probably detective and Alpha is a lot smarter than his brother though again I doubt he's killer too... His role is probably something that gives him a free pass through a puzzle. A one time Insta-win in other words, which would make a lot of sense given how this game is played.

Only way for either of them to possibly be killers and still make sense is if K97 was jealous of Alpha or if Alpha was heavily bullied by K97... Which I think it slim (but still possible I guess). Ergo I can honestly say that I know they can't be the killers unless blatant proof says otherwise.

Jorick said And finally, I reiterate that the GM's purpose is to fuck with us and deceive us, and that alone should be enough to discount any notions of love between characters freeing them from suspicion, because that would be playing into the hands of both Shy and the killer.

I'm not denying this Jorick... It's true maybe the GM is deceiving us but for now we all have to work with what we are given and so far what I said is all I noticed from what we were given, which I think everyone here can agree is not much.

Jorick said The fact that these pairs are coming into the game as pairs means absolutely nothing in a game of Rabbit Doubt.

We differ in this opinion. I think the couples do play a major role but I guess opinions do vary.

Hey Shy, how's that story post coming?

I'll write it this afternoon, there was a complication but it has been worked out. Going to the dentist then I'll write it.

I'm also loving the discussion.

EDIT: So I just gathered all the info... This is going to be one crazy story post.

Personally, until we have more information, we can't exactly say if Jorick, Nat, Drakel, or I is the killer. Although, it is possible since maybe Shy didn't want to put the killer in a true light yet. I know that with my own story posts, I try to keep the killer under the radar for at least two posts. I'm going to have to change that now since I just told part of my gameplay, but still. We have to go on the clues we have at the moment and as of right now, I'm really leaning toward Svenn, even if he may be a major red-herring.

EDIT: Also, I haven't read anything with Jorick and Drakel. I just saw our names a lot and decided to put my two cents in before I go to my American Literature Final

EDIT EDIT: Also, Drakel. I love you and all but you are making yourself suspicious. Sometimes relationships don't mean anything in RDs, but sometimes they do. The relationship in SP has nothing to do with gameplay, so saying someone in a relationship is less likely to be a killer isn't exactly true.

Lady Squee said
Personally, until we have more information, we can't exactly say if Jorick, Nat, Drakel, or I is the killer. Although, it is possible since maybe Shy didn't want to put the killer in a true light yet. I know that with my own story posts, I try to keep the killer under the radar for at least two posts. I'm going to have to change that now since I just told part of my gameplay, but still. We have to go on the clues we have at the moment and as of right now, I'm really leaning toward Svenn, even if he may be a major red-herring.EDIT: Also, I haven't read anything with Jorick and Drakel. I just saw our names a lot and decided to put my two cents in before I go to my American Literature FinalEDIT EDIT: Also, Drakel. I love you and all but you are making yourself suspicious. Sometimes relationships don't mean anything in RDs, but sometimes they do. The relationship in SP has nothing to do with gameplay, so saying someone in a relationship is less likely to be a killer isn't exactly true.

I'm working on the post now.

Let me just say as this is my first hosted Rabbit Doubt, you guys have NO CLUE how I'm playing my killer :p You don't know if my relationships mean anything. Hell, you don't even know what roles are active in this game and even the known ones might have been changed. Long story short, you people know nada :p

I don't think any of you have even seen my writing up until this point.

Shy said
I'm working on the post now.Let me just say as this is my first hosted Rabbit Doubt, you guys have NO CLUE how I'm playing my killer :p You don't know if my relationships mean anything. Hell, you don't even know what roles are active in this game and even the known ones might have been changed. Long story short, you people know nada :pI don't think any of you have even seen my writing up until this point.

No, lol. I'm just speaking off of experience. That's basically what I just said, you silly goose.

Lady Squee said
No, lol. I'm just speaking off of experience. That's basically what I just said, you silly goose.

Don't call me a silly goose you little duck.