Gundam RP?

[Krayzikk]

Potential Solution: We don't side with either Zeon or the Feds.

This is just a hypothetical, but what if we took a page from Gundam F91's book and center the story around some ragtag third party? In F91 it was essentially space pirates in the form of the Crossbone Vanguard. Suppose we're playing as something similar? People whose homes (be it a colony or a place on Earth) was hit by war between Zeon and the Feds and were forced into doing whatever it takes to survive in a harsh world/space that's being torn apart by a war. The idea is that we're essentially scavengers. We try to salvage shipwrecks and especially mobile suit parts. We do it to both make money and arm ourselves so that we aren't defenseless. Naturally, neither the Federation nor Zeon take too kindly to people like this potentially learning the secrets of some of their machines and so we'd probably be treated like outlaws or pirates.

In my hypothetical scenario, we have a plausible reason for why no one would start out with a Gundam (because their parts are just that hard to come by for us) but also gives us the potential to acquire one or two of them as time goes on, assuming we survive long enough to reach that point.

Edit: I also think at least one person ought to play as a masked antagonist of some kind. It just wouldn't be Gundam without a Char clone. Hell, I'll gladly volunteer for that part myself.

@Double

At this point, to be completely honest, I think we'd be cutting out all the reasons to play a UC-based Gundam game. And actually F91 was set around the Federation, just not including Zeon. The Federation was just really weak and borderline unrecognizable by the time of F91, and there wasn't much of a focus on the fact that the soldiers helping Seabook were from the Federation.

But I digress. The point is that cutting out the conflicts between Zeon (and its derivatives) removes pretty much all of the defiining aspects of everything up until the Late UC era. And the alteration of the timeline needed to make it fit really takes away any incentive to use the UC. If you're choosing to make a game that doesn't directly involve the setting's actual conflicts, then there really just isn't a point in using that setting.

It's several unnecessary leaps in logic to explain why there are no Gundams for the PCs yet, too; Gundams were not at all common. They were all very limited production, if not completely unique. There's no explanation needed for why we don't have any, because it's not a given that we would. We're just not in a situation where we would have any.

But given the sort of setting changes you guys would seem to want, it honestly seems like it would make more sense just to craft an AU whole cloth.

[Double]

<Snipped quote by Double>

At this point, to be completely honest, I think we'd be cutting out all the reasons to play a UC-based Gundam game. And actually F91 was set around the Federation, just not including Zeon. The Federation was just really weak and borderline unrecognizable by the time of F91, and there wasn't much of a focus on the fact that the soldiers helping Seabook were from the Federation.

But I digress. The point is that cutting out the conflicts between Zeon (and its derivatives) removes pretty much all of the defiining aspects of everything up until the Late UC era. And the alteration of the timeline needed to make it fit really takes away any incentive to use the UC. If you're choosing to make a game that doesn't directly involve the setting's actual conflicts, then there really just isn't a point in using that setting.

It's several unnecessary leaps in logic to explain why there are no Gundams for the PCs yet, too; Gundams were not at all common. They were all very limited production, if not completely unique. There's no explanation needed for why we don't have any, because it's not a given that we would. We're just not in a situation where we would have any.

But given the sort of setting changes you guys would seem to want, it honestly seems like it would make more sense just to craft an AU whole cloth.

@Krayzikk

I never said we should cut out the conflict. I said we should play a party that has reasons for hating BOTH sides. The conflict would still be there (where do you think all those shipwrecks and stuff came from) we just wouldn't be actively e taking part in it. The idea is for the hypothetical party to potentially be on the run from both sides. Not every Gundam protagonist has to be some living legend like Amuro, you gotta have your occasional Bernies too.

[Plank Sinatra]

<Snipped quote by Krayzikk>

I never said we should cut out the conflict. I said we should play a party that has reasons for hating BOTH sides. The conflict would still be there (where do you think all those shipwrecks and stuff came from) we just wouldn't be actively e taking part in it. The idea is for the hypothetical party to potentially be on the run from both sides. Not every Gundam protagonist has to be some living legend like Amuro, you gotta have your occasional Bernies too.

@Double

The thing is, that kind of setup is anathema to ambiguity, which is the theme that separates Gundam from shows like Macross. The very idea is that you're sometimes going to end up liking the antagonists and thinking the protagonists are bores or douchebags is critical to the show. I think that by creating a third party and using them as a main faction, that treats both canon factions like equal evils, goes against one of the things that's been a theme of Gundam for forty years.

You may not like how much time the series spends on the horrors of war, but that's...pretty much the point. And it doesn't always need to be played for brooding, either. Gundam's had plenty of hot-blooded pilots over the course of forty years across a wealth of factions. You yourself said you would be interested in playing a Char Clone. One person I know who hasn't posted in this interest check yet wants to do the same. There's always going to be a wealth of people who play the villains - just like there are people who are going to defend the Federation, whether to bring the whole Earth Sphere to heel or to be your typical straight-laced animu hero. All being on one side limits character potential and stifles conflict by its very nature - sure, it won't be like we're all sitting around the burning wreckage of Big Zam roasting marshmallows and singing kumbaya, but it won't be like we're trying to kill each other, either.

Letting players actually join a faction actually solves most of the problem with Gundams, too - then it becomes a question of tech progression and when a GM thinks a certain pilot is suited for a certain Gundam, and the suits become something you want to earn and lead your faction to victory with instead of a limited resource that players end up bickering and fighting over. There are plenty of non-UC series where antagonists have Gundams that are just as cool as anything the protags field (as much as I hate to say something positive about SEED, Providence Gundam and Justice Gundam are bae) so it's not like the GM would be making something up without precedent to be more fair to one side.

tl;dr: I disagree with the idea of a third party we're all part of, and think that by having two clear-cut sides and letting players side where they may, you add conflict where it's needed (an actual war in a Gundam series) and remove it where it's not (squabbling over Gundams).

[Double]

<Snipped quote by Double>

The thing is, that kind of setup is anathema to ambiguity, which is the theme that separates Gundam from shows like Macross. The very idea is that you're sometimes going to end up liking the antagonists and thinking the protagonists are bores or douchebags is critical to the show. I think that by creating a third party and using them as a main faction, that treats both canon factions like equal evils, goes against one of the things that's been a theme of Gundam for forty years.

@Plank Sinatra

Implying that both factions aren't already equal evils? Yeah, I said it. Both the Federation and Zeon are equal parts asshole, so why should I be forced to choose one when I could just say fuck it and stick it to both of them?

[Plank Sinatra]

<Snipped quote by Plank Sinatra>

Implying that both factions aren't already equal evils? Yeah, I said it. Both the Federation and Zeon are equal parts asshole, so why should I be forced to choose one when I could just say fuck it and stick it to both of them?

@Double

You can if you want, but my problem with your line of reasoning is that it involves forcing everyone else into saying fuck it right alongside you.

[Krayzikk]

<Snipped quote by Plank Sinatra>

Implying that both factions aren't already equal evils? Yeah, I said it. Both the Federation and Zeon are equal parts asshole, so why should I be forced to choose one when I could just say fuck it and stick it to both of them?

@Double

Because not everyone else necessarily wants to say fuck it? And the rewriting and narrative bending-over-backwards necessary to make that happen is a headache and a half? And you could debate endlessly the morality of the Federation and Zeon?

Just three reasons. And to expand on my perspective of them, I don't see a point in playing a UC game wherein the PCs are against literally every faction. Not to mention the fact that it would have to be one beneath the Federation and Zeon's notice; ships cannot carry enough supplies to be self-sufficient for all that long, so a third group would have to stock up at a colony anyway. Which would be pretty hard to do once you've said "fuck it" and pissed both factions off, because they outnumber you, have better tech, have reinforcements that you do not, and Side 6 is the only neutral Side.

It doesn't work.

[Onarax]

Just chiming in real quick, but I do feel that a third party approach might be best served in a non-UC game. There's nothing wrong with making your own AU and utilizing suits from the other time periods and stuff. There just isn't much point in putting the game in a certain setting and then not utilizing the factions and groups that the setting revolves around. It's like making a G Gundam game that doesn't use the Gundam Fight Tournament.

[Krayzikk]

@Onarax hit the nail on the head in half the words. Smart man.

[Zero Hex]

So, a few things.

@DisguisedDemon, you as a GM should stick with whatever Gundam setting you know best/feel more comfortable running this in. Me? I'm mostly a UC guy, just because of the wealth of content to it, but there's plenty of room to run stories in other universes. I don't particularly like CE, but it's the one where third parties have shown to have the most freedom what with the multiple mercenary groups running around and independent orgs having very, very advanced mobile suits and pretty much personal armies to their name. You pick what works for you, because the guy running the game should probably feel comfortable doing so.

Gundams are Gundams, but remember that the piling of sidestories have made them not terribly unique in most universes. Better than most, sure, but hardly one of a kind. There's several mass production or limited production Gundam-types in UC, they're just a high performance unit with a V-Fin on and there's many nongundams with just as good performance. It should be less about "pick and choose who gets gundams" and more "are you making Gundams the be-all end-all or are you actually allowing non-Gundams to compete?". A level playing field for the PCs should be more important than what you call each robot.

Finally, an idea for a setting that affords plenty of independence from the Federation and Zeon both while keeping them extremely important: make a slight AU where you extend the three way conflict at the end of the Gryps War, keep the factions from both Zeta and ZZ and make the AEUG the player faction. AEUG are the moderates composed of both earthnoids and spacenoids, they're probably the single most sensible group that wants positive change for everyone and tries to achieve it without resorting to extremes and causing mass loss of life and permanent damage to the planet. At the same time, they're an extremely irregular force that recruits all kinds of people from all walks of life.

The Titans being around means there's plenty of people unwilling to work for the Federation, but many still see the Titans as a necessary evil to counter the rising Axis Zeon which actually drops a colony on Earth. Axis has some legitimacy as a followup to the Zabi regime, but many spacenoids don't want yet another warmongering dictatorship. You also have Anaheim Electronics selling stuff to everyone and making a killing out of it all and a time period that's a sweet spot for high performance MS development with a lot of neat gimmicks without getting into full on Newtype Magic like CCA and Unicorn.

tldr: Work with what you know and would be most comfortable running, a level playing field for the PCs is more important than whether they call their robots Gundam and a setting idea.

[Double]

Fine, if that's the case then my vote goes to some AU or something. I like UC as much as the next guy but I have no interest in just repeating the same tired-old Zeon vs Federation story that's been told and retold a hundred times by this point. It was great in its day, but frankly, it's kind of boring now.

[Zero Hex]

Problem being that so many AUs either do similar stories or just don't leave a lot of room for players to bring in a good variety of mobile suits, you know? CE is probably the one that has given the most room to tell both the Earth Alliance and ZAFT to sod it, considering just how hilariously insane both sides are, while still having a whole lot to do with third parties and MS to pick from, but then the issue is that pretty much every high performance machine is a Gundam.

So then if you're sticking to canon units you get the whole "everyone's flying Gundams", which to be fair is exactly how it goes in the shows, or you need to not allow them at all for players or allow for some degree of noncanon customizations for MS. If we're going CE my suggestion would probably be setting it after SEED but before Destiny.

There's about a year after the cease of hostilities and the signing of a treaty banning nuclear technology and mirage colloid as well as limiting MS production but before Destiny proper begins. During this time both sides were still stockpiling arms and advancing their MS tech, and it'd be the perfect time to conduct covert ops against eachother by hiring independents. Namely, the PCs.

Edit: A potential issue with CE would be the supposed advantage coordinators have in literally everything ever over regular humans. But considering how the shows themselves don't paint coordinators in all that superior a light, if the players aren't dicks about it and its agreed the PC naturals are the gifted types like Lowe Guele then it shouldn't be a problem.

[Double]

At least those other universes actually bother to put unique spins on the formula, which is what I was getting at. G Gundam ultimately tells a political war story by the end, but its done so in the very unique way of framing it around a martial arts tournament. And that's just one example.

By the way, is this RP still a thing, or no?