Pariah (.hack//SIGN-inspired RP) — Discussion & Interest Check

[Gowi]

Can I get a headcount to see who is still with us while I work on this tonight?

[shylarah]

*lurks aggressively*

For what it's worth, I am a fan of narrativist systems (focus on story, not on mechanics, stats, and dice) and I use the words fluff and crunch. My understanding is that crunch is numbers, statistics, and the hard and fast rules of the setting. Fluff is...what makes it believable, relatable, and creates the story. If you're sticking in details people don't want and don't like, the term I would use would be filler or padding. Fluff is a good thing. It just uses a different method.

As a complete aside, my favored tabletop/dice system of the ones I've used seems to be FATE. Mostly because there is a rule that says "If both outcomes of a roll of the dice are not interesting, don't bother rolling and go with the interesting one."

@Shoryu Magami@Ailyn Evensen Oh look who I found! *waves to*

[Tojin]

Still here!

[NarcissisticPotato]

Believe me I am still alive~!

[Shoryu Magami]

@shylarah
Yo.

Not to get too away from the topic, but I'll respond to you here instead of the hang-out, just to be less confusing.

I'm just used to 'fluff' being used as a derogative term by people who dislike details -- considering we had a discussion recently about people thinking stuff is 'detail-porn', you already know how I feel about that sort of perspective. Since whether or not certain details are good - or are wanted - is entirely subjective, referring to them as things like 'filler' or 'padding' isn't all that mature in my eyes; however, I'm pretty much used to people using the term 'fluff' in this context too -- the fact that you use it in less of a derogative sense is fair enough, but I'm not used to it.

[Gowi]

Filler/Fluff/Padding/etc is neither negative or positive. =)

[MissCapnCrunch]

@Gowi

I am very much still here and very much still interested.

[shylarah]

@Shoryu Magami I learned about the terms through /tg/ people, where fluff and crunch are two halves of a whole. So that's where most of my ideas for that come from. Also there's fluff like...feelsy-things, and that's good too, but a different concept. <3

@Gowi Padding and filler have negative connotations (at least to me) because the implication is that they are unneeded -- it's stuff you're adding, be it for wordcount or just to look impressive. Fluff and crunch merely describe the type of details you're working with.

@MissCapnCrunch Your SN and signature are timely and highly amusing. <3

[Shoryu Magami]

@shylarah

Since whether or not certain details are good - or are wanted - is entirely subjective, referring to them as things like 'filler' or 'padding' isn't all that mature in my eyes; however, I'm pretty much used to people using the term 'fluff' in this context too -- the fact that you use it in less of a derogative sense is fair enough, but I'm not used to it.

Shoryu Magami

Based off what I just said, which more or less got seconded by Gowi's comment, it's far too subjective to refer to any particular detail as being unneeded. We've already had a pretty lengthy discussion in the hang-out about how one seemingly 'meaningless' detail could have plenty of value to another person, so as far as I'm concerned people who use terms like 'filler' or 'padding' as an insult are trying to push their opinions on other writers, which is immature. Also, there's nothing 'wrong' with wanting to add details in to make your work look impressive, since it means the world or character isn't being half-assed.

@Gowi
A lot of shit's come up on my end, so assume I can't take on another role-play right now.

[MissCapnCrunch]

My opinion of filler is, it's important to an extent.

It's kind of like getting dressed in the morning-
I know damn well I could go naked and get everything done- but if I put some clothes on I'm going to have a better day.
If I decide to put on some accessories and a dab of makeup it'll be even more nice; but not necessary cause I was fine as just normal me.
However, if I go get my nails did, hair did, thats over the top- heck yeah I look good, but man, it's a lot of work.

Plus I was fine being naked

[shylarah]

@MissCapnCrunch@Shoryu Magami I'm looking at the use of the word itself. Just as tenacity and determination have a positive connotation and pigheaded or stubborn tend to be more negative, fluff is a positive (or at least neutral) word in my head, and filler or padding leans toward the negative. This is a discussion of the merit of the word itself, and not of whether the particular details are relevant, necessary, or desired. It sounds like in Shoryu's case, just about any blanket term will have a negative connotation because any of them can be used for bashing, unless the word incorporates an assumed necessity from the start (and so can't mean something unwanted). I was simply explaining my attitude towards said words, and how I generally see them used.

[Shoryu Magami]

It sounds like in Shoryu's case, just about any blanket term will have a negative connotation because any of them can be used for bashing, unless the word incorporates an assumed necessity from the start (and so can't mean something unwanted).

@shylarah

That's not an inaccurate analysis of how I view things, to be honest. Let's just say that since I'm used to seeing people bash things far more often than actually present constructive or unbiased opinions regarding them (the need for me to come into this thread pages back and shoot down the people who were bashing the lore of this role-play is an excellent example, and actually remains on the topic at the same time), I'll usually expect this to be the intentions unless the person clarifies.

Particularly on the internet - where tone of voice is absent - clarity is essentially, so if a person is going to use words that hold mixed implications then they should present their stance more clearly to make sure the details of their words aren't missed. Just calling something 'fluff' and leaving it at that is incredibly vague and frankly just fishes for flame wars. This is one of the reasons my OOC posts tend to be pretty long -- making sure no one misreads me unless they're looking for arguments.

With that being said, I agree that words usually hold inherent positive or negative connotations, even if it's not something I particularly have a lot of respect for since a lot of problems are created when someone takes a word with subjective applications and tries to say there's a 'right' way to use it. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing, but more just pointing out it's one of the problems with the English language.

[The Irish Tree]

@Gowi

I've still got my interest in this.

[Assallya]

I'm still here

[Shin]

A bit late to the headcount, but I'm still in and very excited.

[Gowi]

This is all very good! I know it’s been too long for some people’s tastes between Interest Check and OOC, but I’m working with NP to get things fluid and functional as quickly as we can— this was my birthday weekend so a lot of people wanted to take my time away from the computer (or away from RPG) so I should be transparent with that. Will work some more tonight before bed.

[Shin]

@Gowi

Take your time! Happy belated birthday!

[MissCapnCrunch]

@Gowi

Happy belated birthday cutie!

[Tojin]

Happy late birthday, my friend! And don't worry (much) about the time you're taking; the more time spent working on it, the more polished the final result is going to be!

[The Irish Tree]

@Gowi

Merry belated birthmas!