[OOC] Are We the Bad Guys? - A WH40k RP [Mature]

[Wraithblade6]

@Necroes

I spent a lot of time in the wilderness as a child. I used to instantly and automatically brush my hand down my arm or leg whenever I felt the touch of an insect, just to keep them from landing and biting me, and I got super good at this. One sunny day, I felt a touch on my arm, and instantly I swiped a hand down as I always did, but this time, I had caught the stinger of a bee at the very instant it had tried to sting me and held it beating in my fingertips. I was 13. So much are human reflexes lol.

[Necroes]

@Wraithblade6 And now, we apply this scene to a 40k standard.

A tyranid shoots a high velocity borer beetle at you from a standard fleshborer. It collides with your arm traveling at bullet velocity, and uses the force of the impact to punch through your arm, lodge itself in your sternum, and then bores its way through to the other side, eating everything in its path. This occurs in approximately five seconds, the first .02 of which is how long you have to react to seeing the gaunt aiming at you. Because, once that shot is in the air, you've officially lost any chance of getting out of the way.

Now, a Space Marine in the same situation... exact same rules apply, except he's more chewy and would likely be wearing denser armor. Keeping in mind, of course, that fleshborer beetles are more than capable of chewing their way through flak armor, if it hit his flesh, reports have it doing damage on par with a bolter round.

Now, let's put an eldar harlequin in this same scenario... The sound of the 'gun' firing alerts him to the danger. He can turn his head and see the shot coming mid-flight, and then pirouettes so hard he dodges the bug flying at him going mach 2, because magic space-elves can do that somehow. It makes absolutely no sense, but that's what the fluff says they are capable of. That is, literally, the only explanation for how they can dodge bullets, because those are the things you need to do to dodge a bullet.

[agentmanatee]

@Necroes laughing god lets them see into the future I'm pretty sure.

Coming from a non space elf player tho so ya know

[Klomster]

Sure @Necroes, against bullets space marines superior reflexes isn't the best. That's why they wear power armour.

But i wasn't comparing to eldar or lasgun fire, i was comparing to an Ogryn.
And ogryns sure as heck can't dodge incoming lasfire. Nor would they dodge and parry as much in a melee, relying on their superhuman resilience to outlast their opponent.

And, while i don't like using tabletop rules for things. Eldar usually weighed in on initiative 5. At times 4.
Marines have a flat Ini 4 unless they are even more impressive.
A standard human is at 3.
Does the Ogryn even have 3? I'm fairly certain it is 2.

Initiative being the general quick thinking, reaction time and speed of the individual.
In dark heresy, ogryns have a poor intelligence and agility stat. Agility being speed, agility (duh) and it is used in determining turn order in combat.
Space marines have a better initiative. By far.
Eldar have unnatural agility, which gives them sick bonuses.

So checking out some ogryn stats in dark heresy (which is the source i use for most of my comparisons, since the game holds a high production value and is more close to lore that the tabletop), space marines are roughly double as agile than an ogryn.
But they do tend to have more general toughness and strength. Making them better at such tests.
But space marines have unnatural strength and toughness, giving them sick bonuses in those stats.

Also, necron warriors can't phase out to dodge individual attacks. Some more important necrons could probably do that with some impressive gadget, but generally it's a no.
Necrons usually don't have good reaction time either. They are just built out of weird materials. Damn soaky materials.

[Necroes]

@Klomster I was mostly just defending my 'space marines are meh' statement. Ogryns, by their fluff, should have better reaction time than their rules make them out to have. It may very well be they, in fact, do. However, being as bulky as they are, how awkward their movement is could balance out the fact they react to danger faster than the average human. Hard to say.

My statements about Eldar are more a general peeve I have with them as a race. Realistically, space marines Should have the fastest possible reaction time of anything in the universe (even if other things Also react that fast), shy of tyranid. Tyranid only get a pass because they're all connected to a hyper-intellect that commands them as a group and processes information from every individual organism on the battlefield simultaneously, so realistically a tyranid warrior could begin dodging bolter fire as the gun is being aimed at him because a termagant sees the space marine with the bolter taking aim. But, again, magic space elves, so they can get away with cheating because they can.

As for necrons... the specific things I was referring to were canoptek wraiths. It's just fact that necrons have the ability to produce, in-mass, A.I. controlled robots that can phase in and out of existence in order to avoid incoming attacks. Being controlled by hyper-advanced supercomputers, wraiths have a faster reaction time than basically anything that relies on physics and not magic, because they have what amounts to an in-built invulnerable mode on/off switch that can be turned on at literal light speed. Why they can't do that with All their... well, everything, no one is entirely certain. Necrons don't make a lot of sense that way.

[Wraithblade6]

If we could figure out what's being edited, then I could get to writing.

[Jb]

But, again, magic space elves, so they can get away with cheating because they can.

@Necroes

I do wonder how much lore you've actually read, if only because Eldar have always been like that and it hasn't much to do with 'magic', but rather their physiology.

Eldar Stuff

The most fundamental difference can be seen when the Eldar move, for they each radiate an inhuman elegance and poise. This is especially evident in the sinuous grace with which they fight and the dexterity with which they field their weaponry. Every gesture is laden with subtle intent, and their reflexes are dazzlingly fast.

A casual, languid gesture can end in a pinpoint thrust should the necessity arise. On closer inspection, every aspect of the Eldar physiology betrays their alien nature. Their hearts beat at twice the speed of a human's, and their minds race through possibilities and process emotions so fast that even the so-called geniuses of human history appear dull by comparison.

Even their lives are greater in span -- the Eldar enjoy lives of rich sensation and wonder that can stretch over a millennium, unsullied by illness, frailty or disease. All Eldar can manipulate mental energies to a degree. Each is psychic to one extent or another; it is said the ancient Eldar could read thoughts at a glance, whilst those who trained their minds for war could crush a foe's weapon with a simple narrowing of their eyes. Even the complex technology of their race is based upon psychic engineering, the manipulation of and even creation of matter using mental energies alone. But such raw power has its price.

So, while they do make use of psychic abilities, they are more so just extremely fast due to their biology and evolution (unless you also count Warlock and Farseers, who can usually read the future anyway); never seen a problem with it myself, in almost every written piece of lore about them they are shown and known to be quicker than pretty much anything else.

[Necroes]

@Jbcool I've read plenty of their lore. Eldar being faster and more agile than humans isn't my problem with them. There are animals that exist that are more agile than us, faster than us, and even those that can process information faster than we can, if not follow more complex thoughts.

No, my problem is, eldar pull all that off with no drawbacks to show for it. They are neither more brittle nor weaker than us, as things that are more agile tend to be. They are not stronger than us, yet weigh less than we do, and still manage to move faster despite the fact they would have to be one of the two, if not both, to pull that off. They suffer none of the physical drawbacks that being better than a human in peak shape should require something biological to be, yet they all are.

In effect, what they are described as being is the same as fantasy elves. The difference is that elves in fantasy are either more brittle than us, which allows for their superiority in certain fields, or they're just better than we are because magic. Eldar aren't the first, so they have to be the latter. I don't care if that's the explanation given, except it's not. They are just better than us, because they are, for no adequately explained or explainable reason other than 'space elves.'

[Jb]

@Necroes My bad, but I'd always thought they were the same I.E. More 'fragile', the fact negated by their speed and skill. Not sure it's been said that they're not.

[Necroes]

@Jbcool It's not explicitly stated that they Aren't, so much as there's nothing that even hints at that being the case. It doesn't take longer for them to heal, there's no mention of them having weaker bones or the like. If anything, there's evidence suggesting they're even more resilient than humans, because half their race somehow manages to live for centuries while injecting the absolute maximum level of drugs possible into their systems. A human doing that would die in a fraction of our estimated maximum lifespan.

[Sophrus]

Alright, Sorry, Delay. Done.

[Sophrus]

oh, and i hope that was cool with you @agentmanatee

[agentmanatee]

@Sophrus

Ab-so-lute-ly

[Wraithblade6]

Ok........
*looks left*
*looks right*

Is it me or @agentmanatee next?

[Necroes]

Technically, @Klomster would be up to post next, followed by JB, assuming we're going by who hasn't interacted most recently.

[Wraithblade6]

Im ok with that. More eternal crusade time for me.

[Klomster]

Now what the heck will i do.

[BCTheEntity]

@Klomster You control a man who controls robot bits of himself. Have him get involved with this fight, perhaps. Maybe he sees an opportunity to, like, try and kill one of Azazel's subordinate Marines, for some reason, I don't know.

[Klomster]

@BCTheEntity I don't see a reason why Zuriel would tempt fate and fight chaos space marines. They are hard as shit.
And even if he managed to kill one with his hellpistol (which might not work properly in a null zone) i still have the others who will not approve of this action.

I was considering trying to tinker with the downed techmarine, but there's an ogryn guarding it so that wouldn't work overly well either.

Then i could just start helping out with starship operations. While it would be useful, i don't know if it is the path Zuriel would take.

AHA!!!
I asked my roommate, "what would you do if you were a dread magos in a null zone.?"
His answer.
-"Start building things."

And then gave a good example.
Myeees. I shall work this situation into my favor. And if not now, later.....

[Wraithblade6]

lol Argh. Half alive, half dead. Is this what the Emperor feels like?