[OOC] After the End

[Rockin Strings]

I could see myself joining this. What are the limits on mutations? I have an idea gor a guy who can be the leader of a group known as the Witches, each member having a non-physical mutation.

[Potter]

I'm so happy to see more posts! :) I will hopefulyl have a post up by the end of the day with all 3 of my characters.

I'm kinda hoping for someone to interact with me before I respond, but I'll post today/tomorrow before work if that doesn't happen.

@Saint Girralo

I'll interact with you with Iris. Give me a bit to type it up, okay? :)

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<Snipped quote by Potter>

I'm fine, just got done with my first day at a new job.

Also, Perenelle is baring her fangs a bit, figuratively speaking, eh?

@Joshua Tamashii

LOL. be careful, this one has claws and fangs - figuratively and realistically.

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I could see myself joining this. What are the limits on mutations? I have an idea gor a guy who can be the leader of a group known as the Witches, each member having a non-physical mutation.

@RokkuHoshi

I would say nothing with super-powers, such as telekinesis or along those lines. I gave Iris wings, so that's okay. Gills, claws, fangs, are acceptable. Nothing overly-powerful or anything invincible. Penguin may have more to say, but that's my take on it.

[Joshua Tamashii]

@Potter Well, I'm curious if she'll keep calm with the portion sizes of the meal and realize why Amelia portioned them out as she did. I suppose we'll see though.

[Potter]

@Saint Girralo - I posted Iris meeting Sarah. She loves Sarah's cow - but not to eat. I'll emphasis that. These two would make great friends.

@Sanctus Spooki - I posted Drake by Adelaide as well, though I left room for Hiram. It would take more than just him to scare the men off anyways. They can be friends (if you want). :D

@Joshua Tamashii - indeed! You'll see her reaction when I post her. More than likely she will.

[Joshua Tamashii]

@Potter Okay, so Amelia might be safe. Might being the optimal word.

[Potter]

@Potter Okay, so Amelia might be safe. Might being the optimal word.

@Joshua Tamashii

I'm full of surprises. :p

[Joshua Tamashii]

<Snipped quote by Joshua Tamashii>

I'm full of surprises. :p

@Potter

It's like rolling a die. You never know what the result will be.

[chukklehed]

It's more like pulling something out of a random bag of holding. You could get a delicious sandwich, or a live and very confused tiger.

[Joshua Tamashii]

@chukklehed but you need dice to do that. Like the ones in Potter's pic.

[Rockin Strings]

@Potter I could see things like Telekinesis working if severely limited.

[SkankingDevil]

Both accepted! Great job guys!@Dephyus@SkankingDevil

@Penguin

Thanks much, looks like a fun RP!

[Penguin]

@Potter I could see things like Telekinesis working if severely limited.

@RokkuHoshi

Hmm. We're going for more of the genetic mutation type of thing. I guess it could possibly work but what is the fun if it's limited?

[chukklehed]

@chukklehed but you need dice to do that. Like the ones in Potter's pic.

@Joshua Tamashii

You don't use a D6 to roll on a loot table, fool. That's why they INVENTED the 20!

[Sanctus Spooki]

In my own experience, limiting telekinesis tends to be mostly inconsequential, finding the loopholes that allow you to work around said limitations without a noticeable drop in power, is relatively easy. Telekinesis is one of the easier powers to abuse. Primarily because unlike other similar "Manipulation at a distance" powers, there is no stipulation on what they can manipulate. Compare Pyrokinetics -Pyro for fire, Kinetics for movement- which tells you precisely what the scope of the power is (within limits, remember this is still a fantastical ability) Now Telekinetic, -Tele, for Far off, or at a distance, and kinetics again. The prefix of "Tele" is almost redundant when using it to talk about powers. [nuffsaid] What you are left with is just Kinesis/Kinetics, ergo: movement, or momentum, whatever you'd like to call this for your own comprehension. Sounds very close to something called physics, which is the scientific study of matter and movements. So a Telekinetic is someone's whose ability is to manipulate movement/momentum. For anyone who has seen A Certain Magical Index, or A Certain Scientific Railgun, you see where I'm going with this.

So you decide to prevent them from manipulating biological organisms, for the obvious reason that without this limitation, or providing other characters with a suitable defense, a Telekinetic can essentially kill anything within range. Of course this doesn't prevent the Telekinist from causing your shirt to constrict around your neck, effectively choking the life out of you, or perhaps he removes your gun from its holster, before blowing your brains out. Alright so we'll limit how massive an object he can manipulate. Perfectly reasonable, though once again, the loopholes are easy to find, needles through the eyes, or drown the man in dirt/sand, etc etc. Hell, you could theoretically create a Vacuum around someone's head, which would have very obvious and immediate results, or compress the air around said person's head until the pressure made them go POP . Another commonly ignored problem is that Telekinesis essentially provides a limitless number of auxiliary powers for those adequately educated. Pyromancy, Check. Aquamancy? Check. Geomancy, Check. Necromancy (providing the previous no biological matter rule hasn't been applied) Check. Flight, superstrength, invulnerability really I could continue this as long as I want, almost every single power can be derived from Telekinesis, (Or it's sister, Telepathy) with the proper approach, excluding ones that essentially entail creating something out of nothing, and with sufficient explanation, Telekinesis could easily accomplish this as well.

I've got it, we'll make it so that using Telekinesis tires the character out. This is probably the only check which can actually work, provided the setting allows non, and even then it's rare. Mental exhaustion, or physical? Perhaps some other source altogether? Exhaustion is a nice limiter, but it doesn't actually prevent any abuses, merely allows for them to be spaced out more, Just because floating that belt of grenades into the barracks (Honestly, in the proper setting this is hardly Telekinetic abuse, just smart thinking, but bear with me) leaves Anita with a nosebleed and a migraine, or even completely burnt out, doesn't change the fact that once she recharges her batteries, she will be just as powerful as she was before (Perhaps more so if this is the type of Telekinesis that is developed over time)

"Spooki, your being excessive, if she gets tired out from lugging a belt of grenades only 300 feet or so, and can only do it once a day or so, provided she can't use her power on organics, and avoids the 'loopholes' you just described, whats to stop said character from being a valued contributor to our team/story?"

Firstly, I want to take this moment to say I'm not implying that @RokkuHoshi will not be a valued member of the RP, or a contributor to the story/team. Or that I think he is going to try and abuse his powers to the limits he is provided. I'm only mentioning my own reservations regarding Telekinesis as a mutation, and fully understand if either Penguin or Potter takes no issue with it, and also this isn't raising any objections to Pyrokinesis/Aquamancy/Geo etc etc, though those do lend to certain abuses as well.

The second part is that the entire problem is that once you provide a solid "Level" of power for the Telekinetic to work with, you begin to be able to figure out what all the loopholes are. Assuming (pulling out of my ass) the grenade belt had 8 grenades, and each grenade weighs roughly 1 pound, with the manipulation of the belt being at 300ft, that gives us 8lbs @ 300ft or in other words the power to manipulate a m16 from 100m away. Without adequate preparation, or awareness, this is a death sentence for any opponent. Compare that to a Pyrokinetist, who, assuming the same range and a relatively similar power in terms of scale (unable to turn entire cities into ash with the flick of a finger) any opponent while still at a Disadvantage, mainly has to guard against burns, smoke inhalation, and perhaps a few more excited reactions. In contrast, fighting against a telekinetic by definition implies you must guard against almost the entirety of the physical realm.

(Wth is wrong with me....)

[chukklehed]

Actually, telikenetics are usually confined to solid objects with a noticeable amount of mass. This prevents them from moving insubstantial things like fog and air, and in some cases liquids too. On top of that, less power often means less fine control, so even if you can MOVE a grenade at 100 meters (which is unlikely at such a low form of telekinesis, more realistically it'll be around 2-10 meters) you can't necicarilly pull the pin or pull a trigger, or even hold it in the air. The most likely scenario for telekinesis in this RP is gross control in short bursts, such as throwing an object across the room or pulling something towards you. Useful in the right circumstances, but not game breaking.

Also there are abilities that are WAY easier to find loopholes in. Telepathy, for starters.

[Sanctus Spooki]

I think you missed the general point of my post xD

Not arguing the disagreement on what constitutes Telekinetics (different source materials, that I'm sure we all derive from, in my experience it is utterly common for telekinetic users to create full on "force barriers/weapons") all of the other things you've listed are once again, just limitations being imposed upon the user. Which in my post I pointed out, the primary problem of Telekinesis is the general ability to work around said loopholes.

Limiting the range to 2-10 meters, while effective in preventing the character from decimating absolutely anything, doesn't exactly limit them in actual ability, merely range. Which is relatively inconsequential for telekinetics, though it does potentially place the PC in the line of fire. In terms of Gross Control -short bursts- it seems to work at first glance, until you realize that you can either give the PC a berserker button, or still allow them to control said Telekinesis at will. Utilizing short gross control, (Lacking in finesse, but more... forceful if you will- unless the only thing the PC will be allowed to do is pour tea or something,) still provides ample potential for broken bones, ripping houses down around people's heads, suffocation, etc etc, None of which require particular levels of strength or finesse. For each, a sufficient understanding of the mechanics at play allow quite creative results. Breaking a new knee becomes easier, or harder, depending on the angle, and side you assault it from, for example. To take it to one such extreme, imagine sweeping a room with a razor wire, even lacking in control.

Telepathy on the other hand, I find less inclined towards loopholes, as it is much easier to define the limits of Telepathy, not to say it isn't incredibly easy to abuse.

[chukklehed]

It's already been said it would be weak telekinesis. Using it creatively is the reason we RP in the first place. If you can bring a house down realistically with the amount of ability you're allowed, that deserves kudos, not condemnation. You seem to forget there isn't any "winning" at RP. There's no reason to cheat. That's why I don't get why everyone is all up in a tizzy about people being "overpowered". If the GM allows a power, just deal with it. It's not unfair because we aren't competing.

On top of that, it's incredibly easy to define weak telikenetics as "as much as you could physically carry at a limited range". If you couldn't break a support column with your bare hands, you can't do it with telikenesis.

[Sanctus Spooki]

It's not about winning, it's about keeping things reasonable, if you join a vigilante roleplay, alluding to superheroes (think low rank/power), and then someone comes along with superman, the rest of the Vigilantes become absolutely pointless, might as well go home and sip coffee to wait for the 6 o'clock news to tell me what city was saved today.

Once again, I think you are missing my actual point. What I am referring to is the fact that this is supposed to be a Post-Apocalyptic SURVIVAL rp, yes there are mutations, but someone with Telekinesis, no matter how limited, or well written, or creative, will always, be on a whole nother level from the other characters. There is a reason the most powerful characters in many forms of literature are Telekinetic or Telepathic. (looking at you Yahweh)

No, we are not competing, and at no point did I say this was a competition. At no point did I say anything about winning (In many rps yes, there is a win or lose factor, lets not kid ourselves) If However, I was not aware that we were not allowed to present our own thoughts upon the subject?

Firstly, I want to take this moment to say I'm not implying that @RokkuHoshi will not be a valued member of the RP, or a contributor to the story/team. Or that I think he is going to try and abuse his powers to the limits he is provided. I'm only mentioning my own reservations regarding Telekinesis as a mutation, and fully understand if either Penguin or Potter takes no issue with it, and also this isn't raising any objections to Pyrokinesis/Aquamancy/Geo etc etc, though those do lend to certain abuses as well.

@Sanctus Spooki

This is the part where I mentioned my ability to "deal"

Likewise, I "dealt" with my own personal misgivings of you not having to submit your CS in the same way the rest of us did, despite how easy it would be too omit whatever details you would like to keep secret from the public CS and provide a private CS to Penguin.

[Potter]

Everyone, let's take a deep breath and give room for us to post, yes? Thanks! :)

[Sanctus Spooki]

On top of that, it's incredibly easy to define weak telikenetics as "as much as you could physically carry at a limited range". If you couldn't break a support column with your bare hands, you can't do it with telikenesis.

@chukklehed

So going by this limitation, and the previous condition of 2-10 metres, I in short energetic bursts, I now have the ability to hurl a 300lbs man across the room. Get creative.

Also, sorry Potter, not aiming to cause a problem, was merely trying to present my own views, perhaps I shouldn't have written a small essay on it...