Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Penny]

do exactly like Australia, Canada, France, Sweden, Denmark and Germany and have different plans for different areas with their own challenges, resources and values rather than trying to create one super-plan that addresses every region successfully.

@Kratesis

So cover everyone with mandated government healthcare with flexible systems of delivery? I'm on board.

We can even call it something other than universal healthcare if that will make people feel better.

[POOHEAD189]

Call it "Thoughts and Prayers"

[Penny]

Call it "Thoughts and Prayers"

@POOHEAD189

... mind blown ...

[Penny]

@POOHEAD189

What you really need to do is call it the Biological Readiness Initiative and get it classified under the Department of Defense. That way we can stealthily make people healthy with the aid of the sacred defense budget.

[POOHEAD189]

@Penny That's good...the 'B.R.I.' even sounds like a no-nonsense department or initiative. If we used the Defense Budget, we'd have all the healthcare in the world!

[Kratesis]

<Snipped quote by Kratesis>

So cover everyone with mandated government healthcare with flexible systems of delivery? I'm on board.

We can even call it something other than universal healthcare if that will make people feel better.

@Penny

I know you are just stripping posts of all nuance in order to get in a jab at your ideological enemies and beat up a few strawmen but I actually think it could be done if we did it state by state. The UK has a lower GDP per capita than Tennessee and they have a national healthcare system, after all.

[Penny]

Also all costs will be quoted in number of F-35s.

A CBC will now be priced at 0.00000012 F-35s

[POOHEAD189]

@PennyLOL. Sounds like Air force Currency.

[Penny]

<Snipped quote by Penny>

I know you are just stripping posts of all nuance in order to get in a jab at your ideological enemies and beat up a few strawmen but I actually think it could be done if we did it state by state. The UK has a lower GDP per capital than Tennessee and they have a national healthcare system, after all.

@Kratesis

Ok? So we agree that a universal (in the sense that all people would be covered) healthcare system is possible? Great, like I said I'm on board. Imagine the efficiency of scale you could get with 300 million people....

[Penny]

Also all costs will be quoted in number of F-35s.

A CBC will now be priced at 0.00000012 F-35s

@Penny

I suppose I should add a modest draw charge, so lets say 0.0000003 F-35s

[Kratesis]

<Snipped quote by Kratesis>

Ok? So we agree that a universal (in the sense that all people would be covered) healthcare system is possible?

@Penny

Again, there is a nuance to my claims. I imagine we agree that should the problem be sub-divided into regional components and addressed on a regional level that it is possible a limited level of care could be achieved. I also imagine that we don't agree on the what that limit is and I also imagine that we don't agree on the cases in which the costs outweigh the benefits. Could we? Yes. Should we? Perhaps not in all cases; a question worth examining.

Great, like I said I'm on board. Imagine the efficiency of scale you could get with 300 million people....

Likewise imagine the diseconomies of scale that could emerge from a flawed plan. Because the US has so frequently encountered diseconomies of scale in federal programs this is a concern that should be addressed.

[Penny]

I know you are just stripping posts of all nuance in order to get in a jab at your ideological enemies and beat up a few strawmen

@Kratesis

I also imagine that we don't agree on the what that limit is and I also imagine that we don't agree on the cases in which the costs outweigh the benefits. Could we? Yes. Should we? Perhaps not in all cases; a question worth examining.

@Kratesis

You know this actually does raise an unrelated question I have been considering for a while.

Why ARE people in this thread? What are your individual reasons for engaging?

I tell myself that people are only ever convinced by gradual and continual application of data but that can't really be true. The idea that I am going to convince someone like Andre or Harbinger of anything is almost ludicrous and kind of gives the lie to the first point. I think it isn't a stretch to say that I am the most liberal and progressive of the participants, at least on any regular basis. Do I just like to keep up an argument so conservative bs doesn't go unchallenged? I don't know if that is really true either.

I guess part of the shock of November 2016 was that I had to admit that people are fundamentally different from me in what I consider to be negative ways. Liberals at the time spent alot of effort in the predictable circular firing squad, calling out Bernie Voters, Stein Voters ect ect but in my mind that completely missed the point. Well over 40 percent of people who voted genuinely thought that a racist, sexist, pussy grabber in chief was the right thing to do.

I have a tendency to assume that all people are basically like me with variations in temperament and educational levels. It really hadn't hit me on a personal level that I might be surrounded by the type of people who would look at a literal nazi march, watch a woman be murdered, and claim the real problem was with people who disliked nazis. It was outside my comprehension at the time that such people even existed. I suppose I think at some level that this thread is a good way to keep it in my mind that people might differ from me so fundamentally on an ideological level as to be nearly recognizable from my vantage point. I don't want to fall into the comfortable trap again. I wish more liberals would pull their heads out of the sand about the magnitude of the problem.

[POOHEAD189]

I'm here because of the intellectual stimulation on good days, the laughs on bad days, and the memes in between. Also I consider some of y'all to be my acquaintances if not my friends. And the ones I don't, I still see what they say and try to gauge how they came to said conclusion.

[Kratesis]

@Penny

Why ARE people in this thread? What are your individual reasons for engaging?

In this case because I can't stand strawmen. Your strawman against MDK annoyed me and I have some spare time so here we are.

[Penny]

@Penny : You are basically Aliens

@POOHEAD189 : The Power of Friendship!

[POOHEAD189]

@Penny I think I'm a mixture of both tbh.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

Why ARE people in this thread? What are your individual reasons for engaging?

Why I am here in this particular topic is to debunk falsehoods and misconceptions, dispel lies, and destroy the extreme and minority narrative that has swallowed up the mainstream. It is statements as, "Well over 40 percent of people who voted genuinely thought that a racist, sexist, pussy grabber in chief was the right thing to do." that tell me this is, without question, a mission worth pursuing. The very last thing I want to see in the United States of America is become the social justice empire, so it is my obligation to combat it. I do not necessarily care if I change the opinions of others in the process, people are entitled to opinions even if they are bad opinions, so much as I care about disproving the illusion that has been woven.

From a personal level, I suffered at the hands of the social justice movement throughout a period of time where it was acceptable to label people anything and everything which then allowed the mob mentality to jump to its feet. It characterized a formative period in my life where the incessant squawking that "color blindness" is racist, that "Not agreeing with the homosexual lifestyle." is homophobic, holding anger over Muslims who do not moderate their extremest brothers is somehow Islamophobic, and believing men and women are biologically different is somehow misogynist, did very well to make me bitter - more bitter than I had been prior. I was made out to be things I was not; nothing but lies, knowing ones at that.

With the rebirth of the patriotic spirit after a long period of darkness, I again had hope. The election, especially the running up to and the time after, confirmed to me that most of the nation wanted to be free of this caustic mindset as well; I saw exactly what they did to the campaign of Donald Trump and the egregious crimes of the Democratic party, headed off by Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama. What set me off on this path to where I am now in my activity was the revelation of just what took place in Benghazi and how they willingly allowed people to be left behind, tortured, and then butchered by our enemy.

[Polymorpheus]

.

[Penny]

<Snipped quote by Penny>
I'm just bored, and Spam is pretty much dead, so you know...

@catchamber

Haha I'll confess to an element of that as well.

[POOHEAD189]

Yeah I think we can all kinda share that sentiment.