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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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Doug Stanhope on patriotism (the first 60 second or so)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4

I've lived for long periods in four different countries and never found patriotism to be much more than a balm for people who need some sort of validation. I often find it to be tied to pride in violence and anti foreigner sentiment.

Of course I'm a shiftless wander with no roots ;)
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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Doug Stanhope on patriotism (the first 60 second or so)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4

I've lived for long periods in four different countries and never found patriotism to be much more than a balm for people who need some sort of validation. I often find it to be tied to pride in violence and anti foreigner sentiment.

Of course I'm a shiftless wander with no roots ;)

Penny the Gypsy~

I am completely against Nationalism, and while I think patriotism goes a bit too far (and the 'we' did this is so stupid), as a historian I can enjoy the accomplishments of nations. It's neat to learn them, and I suppose it's neat to know you're from the country that did 'so and so.' But like I said, that's probably just the historian in me.

Edit: Also being proud/interested in a cultural heritage is neat, even if it's not your own.
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Penny the Gypsy~


Careful, I don't want to be victimized by 'patriots' for being a Romani ;)

I am a huge history fan too and it is interesting to look at Americans and think that they are the descendants of people who fought the civil war. Or look at the Timorese and imagine their ancestors being oppressed by the Dutch.
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They're not rumours, it's objective fact you're a pedophile.

It's just a problem of how the Guild works combined with nicety and shyness of your prey.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

Careful, I don't want to be victimized by 'patriots' for being a Romani ;)

I am a huge history fan too and it is interesting to look at Americans and think that they are the descendants of people who fought the civil war. Or look at the Timorese and imagine their ancestors being oppressed by the Dutch.

Exactly! (Also Romani are cool. Don't tell nobody <.<)

They're not rumours, it's objective fact you're a pedophile.

It's just a problem of how the Guild works combined with nicety and shyness of your prey.

Oh shit! OOOH MAN! SHE'LL NEVER RECOVER! HOW CAN SHE NOW GO ON!?
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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@POOHEAD189
I wasn't even talking about Penny bruh

That's some A+ white knighting tho
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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@POOHEAD189

Of course it is possible that my opinion of patriotism is colored by my experience of people who identify themselves as 'patriots'. I suppose it might be possible that there are people who are affected by patriotic emotion in a good way but seeing they don't go out of their way to be jerks I just don't see that part of the signal.

Does patriotism have positive effects that people can think of? I suppose the defense of self determination is a worthy goal, although yoking that to nationalism seems like a regrettable necessity rather than an overall positive.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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Does patriotism have positive effects that people can think of?


livescience.com/12791-happiness-linke…

huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/01/healt…

In a report for Psychological Science, Matthew Wright, a political scientist at American University, and Tim Reeskens, a sociologist from Catholic University in Belgium found that more national pride correlated with greater personal wellbeing.

Literally more likely to mean, you're a happier (and likely healthier) person? :/ (Sort of makes sense really...)

rheg.vastserve.com/articles/patriotis…

Here's a whole page. :P
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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Also this has turned into a shit show again, three people are attacking each other. (thankfully not at me for once. :D)

So cut the shit out please.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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But mooooom they started it!
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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I'm going to die miserable and sick it seems :P

According to that last article I treacherously abandoned my own country to selfishly pursue better opportunities elsewhere. I regret nothing!
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by The Harbinger of Ferocity
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A nation without any sense of patriotism hardly makes for a nation. There is no pride, no vim and vigor, no willingness to defend the identity that all under it share and whatever goals or identities it assumes for itself. A patriot supports their country and stands for it, even when there are times of disagreement within it. They are those willing to defend it and obey the lawful directives of those appointed over them. They believe in their country above others and a sense of pride in its history as well as a point of purpose. Patriotism is not blind loyalty either, instead focusing upon hitting the notes and values of what makes a country itself in perception.

There is nothing wrong with patriotism and I find myself of the opinion that those who are not patriotic or loyal to their nation are disrespectful and in some cases, even ungrateful. For a point of reference, I would not obviously sing the Russian anthem if it were played at an event, but I would be respectful enough to stand and keep quiet until their presentation was complete out of respect for them even if I view them with suspicion. The ungrateful element comes from the usual tradition of the United States to honor and give reverence to those who served it; I am exceedingly disappointed to see things such as protests of deceased service members take place as an example or that the education system does not enforce the Pledge of Allegiance or the playing of the anthem anymore, let alone allow American flags to be flown in the most extreme cases.

The positive effects of patriotism should be obvious and overt to anyone. You can collectively take a great number of differing individual, personal opinions and unite them under one general identity. It might be evident that I would not fall well into the Alt Right camp, and only qualify as "Alt Right" in the modern era because it has been made out to be a pejorative label, but I am fairly confident that if you gathered them altogether then asked them, "Do you love your country and care about it?" I reason you would see ninety percent or more say yes no matter how you worded it. Granted they might all be at each other's metaphorical throats over the details, but you could at least mobilize them as you have seen in recent times under one more broad banner. They are willing, even if begrudgingly, to work together to some extent whereas before they were unlikely to have been.

To those who are not patriotic, I find myself asking in contrast why not?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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I've always found the whole pledge of allegiance thing to be a little creepy.

I do usually stand when people sing the national anthem at sporting events and such because its considerably easier than paying the social cost of not doing so and it is a tradition that cost me little to accommodate.

I certainly object to anyone who protests at a funeral for any reason. That kind of behavior is just disgusting. Soldiers should be respected, as they take terrible risks for little reward in at least the notion of the public good.

In my mind they country that you are born in is arbitrary. If I had been born in Bangladesh I doubt I would develop some deep spiritual bond to it. There are things about countries that I like and things about countries that I dislike but those things tend to be true of multiple nations. For example freedom of expression is important to me personally so I tend towards Western democracies which share those values but I don't attach that positive feeling to 'America' or 'Britain' or any other nation. It is just a trade off list of things I like vs things I dislike to me.

This is certainly a very privileged position as I recognize not everyone can just pick up an move between countries more or less at will. Maybe if I were stuck in one country I'd be more invested in it.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@SleepingSilence

I'm going to die miserable and sick it seems :P

According to that last article I treacherously abandoned my own country to selfishly pursue better opportunities elsewhere. I regret nothing!


Aren't we all?

Being amurican, pride is everything. Now eat your triple bacon burger and Denny's Red, White and Blue pancakes! >:I
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Penny
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Being amurican, pride is everything. Now eat your triple bacon burger and Denny's Red, White and Blue pancakes! >:I


Ugh now I'm hungry! I tell you one thing America ROCKS at fast food.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by POOHEAD189
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I wasn't even talking about Penny bruh

That's some A+ white knighting tho

I just think all this trolling is a bit immature, dude.

Also this has turned into a shit show again, three people are attacking each other. (thankfully not at me for once. :D)

So cut the shit out please.

Exactly.

@POOHEAD189

Of course it is possible that my opinion of patriotism is colored by my experience of people who identify themselves as 'patriots'. I suppose it might be possible that there are people who are affected by patriotic emotion in a good way but seeing they don't go out of their way to be jerks I just don't see that part of the signal.

Does patriotism have positive effects that people can think of? I suppose the defense of self determination is a worthy goal, although yoking that to nationalism seems like a regrettable necessity rather than an overall positive.


I think patriotism is (or can be) a healthy thing for a nation, but an unhealthy thing for an individual. Though nationalistic tendencies I'll never agree with. Your video put it right. "Let's hate these people we've never met for no reason."
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Penny We make all food better. Pizza is like an essential food group now, and it's a vegetable and totally healthy. Well except chocolate, we really goddamn suck at that. :D
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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I just think all this trolling is a bit immature, dude.

Man don't scold me when you trolled me too.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Andreyich
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Also, nationalism is defined as having hate for other nations/thinking your's is better. I don't hate other people, I just really love mine so what would I be called per modern definitions?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Does patriotism have positive effects that people can think of? I suppose the defense of self determination is a worthy goal, although yoking that to nationalism seems like a regrettable necessity rather than an overall positive.


Some pretty patriotic Americans took Normandy.
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