How can we help improve RPGuild? Community suggestions and discussion.

[Dion]

Special thanks to @Cynder and @Grimhildr for kickstarting the process. Special thanks to everyone else that participated in a deliberation on how we can improve the guild. Your efforts are appreciated and valued, because only through discussing things can we reach new ideas and solutions to the problems that festered and continue to fester in RPGuild - as a community and as a forum.

Some pointers before kicking off the thread -

o No flaming
o No ad hominem
o 'Be Fonz Cool', whatever the fuck that means
o Constructive criticism only, naming an issue is one thing, complaining and whining another
o Motivate your answers
o Try to think of solutions as well as problems

Some questions you can ask yourself to help you come up with a reply, solutions, problems or just something you want to share -

o What do you think problems within the community are?
o Have you ever experienced a problem that made you feel like 'what's the point' or feel like giving up?
o What are the causes for these problems do you think?
o How could you fix these problems?
o Is that solution wholly realistic?
o How do you feel about the sense of community on RPGuild?
o Is this sense of community important to you/your solution?
o How do you feel about community engagement on RPGuild?

These are just some questions you can ask yourself to answer the question on how to improve the Guild, but any other answers/questions are welcome to. As long as you remain deliberative (decision through argumentation, not by raising your voice and yelling the loudest) and open to new ideas your answer will be welcomed.

[Dion]

In response to this discussion thread surrounding the issues that plague roleplayerguild, I compiled this list in order to provide some decent insight into what the community perceives to be problems, and how the community looks at solutions, with the aim of giving Mahz a degree of options laid out before him on things to consider and/or look at.

Special thanks go to;
@Cynder for providing inspiration to create a discussion thread and being at the forefront of community projects that have helped us organize as a community.
@Grimhildr for hosting the first discussion thread which provided a rudimentary discussion platform that opened the discussion to the community.

First I will list priority issues that were listed as problems frequently, to list what issues are considered to be very important by the community.

• Moderators are too inactive
• Moderators need to be present in the community more
• New faces in the moderators are desired if not downright required
• Moderators need more capacity to do things or otherwise a secondary co-admin with equal or slightly less powers should be appointed
• A report button must be added to increase the amount of actual reports being filed to deal with the problem of nobody reporting anything due to a feeling of uselessness
• PM system is considered 'top priority' as a deletion method for PM's is to be included ASAP
• Free-, casual-, and advanced names need to be changed to better represent not the skill but the dedication to a roleplay required within. Tags will replace the skill requirement notifier.
• Preferably a way to filter out mature 1x1's could be added which, at the height of escalation, could become it's own subforum
• Rules need to be rewritten to be more clear and less vague. What is 'Fonz cool'? 'Just don't be an asshole?' Too vague to reasonably use as rules.
• Custom tags and tabs for threads would be a nice addition.
• Not unimportant, guides should be pinned to roleplaying forums where they can be useful i.e. GMing guides or roleplaying guides in roleplay sections, arena guides in arena section, etc.

The following are points that were mentioned within the previous thread and/or the mentioned thread.

• A way to separate 1x1 threads looking for sexual content from 'regular' 1x1 interest checks (potentially a new subforum).
• Communication skills of the community itself.
• Someone or some group could write up a guide on how to GM and not kill their RP's.
• The forum should be more aesthetically pleasing.
• A karma system/blacklist system. Karma system was criticized for potentially ostracizing people for OOC reasons not related to roleplay.
• RPGNews is inconsistent, but a fanmade and hosted version could be made. Potentially riddled with the same problems as old RPGN.
• Updating/adding guides to the appropriate section and linking newcomers to them.
• Reviving the Contest function and/or creating our own (include other forms of art, I intend to host a giveaway of some sorts in the future).
• Recruiting prospective coders to possibly help Mahz out around the website.
• Possibly reviving the website chatbox (at this point in time, it's too late and discord is the better option).
• Make the existing fan-hosted discord into an official RPG discord by displaying it on the front page.
• Community events (videogame night, story telling night, etc.)
• Actually reporting people to the Moderators as needed in order to make the website feel less "lawless".
• Mods actually have to be active.
• If you're going to even have forum rules, actually enforce them. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
• Community engagement is a big problem for RPG. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
• Mods are (too) inactive for their position, to the point where users are unaware of their existence. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
• Non-application of existing rules, biased application of rules where it does happen. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
• Mahz' absence has caused a lot of problems for the guild (broken features not fixed despite tickets existing for half a year +-, new features are not required and gimmicky at best (arena leaderboard))
• More complicated captchas to help discourage the spambot plagues
• Nobody reads the rules and even if they do, there is no enforcement anyway so why follow them?
• Free-, casual-, and advanced sections separate the userbase into a non-enforceable 'made up' idea of who is free and who is advanced.
• Preferable seperation based on commitment where free roleplay becomes low-commitment roleplay and advanced and casual merge into high-commitment RP.
• 'Tag' system replaces existing free, casual and advanced sections and thus the distinction in skill remains.
• We need new faces in the staff/moderator board that are more capable of engaging and actively enforcing rules.
• A feeling of uselessness of discussion and debate about the state of RPG has arisen, because nothing ever happens and the moderators don't talk back.
• There is no trust in moderators that are in place now to make calls about who gets to be 'new moderators' if they choose to pick new people.
• No trust in community to 'elect' moderators either. Popularity contest.
• RPGuild has no appeal above other roleplaying websites that draws people to RPGuild and is starting to show signs that drive people away (broken functions, toxic clique forming).
• A blacklist (off-site) for people that are known to ruin RP's with hostility and other problematic things.
• The most pressing problem with the site is the lack of updates from the site or Mahz.
• Pin relevant guides to the relevant subforums i.e. GMing 101 could be pinned everywhere.
• Moderators appear uncommitted and seem 'okay' with how things are now even if the community disagrees and has stated they are not satisfied.
• RPG moderators seem unaware of or uncaring towards the problem that a lot of problems occur offsite and are carried over into RPG.
• There's no trust in moderators to punish adequately.
• Moderators themselves agree with the community that more moderators, and specifically more active moderators are required.
• Moderator applications can be considered but are not seen as the end-all tool for finding new and dependable moderators because it raises the problem of people wanting to gain power for the purpose of gaining power.
• Moderators fail to communicate their priorities and problems and as a result create the feeling that the mods are just resting on their laurels doing nothing while this is not the case, purely because of failure to communicate.
• Report system fails because moderators constantly refer to the rules, but the rules state outdated concepts like 'pressing the report button' of which there is none. Rewrite the rules.
• Some people want to split casual into low-medium-high casual respectively.
• Most people don't want to spread the forums even wider and would rather see it condensed (admittedly it wasn't a point that was discussed a lot)
• We should as a whole venture more into the introduction area and greet newcomers,ask them how they are, what kind of role plays they like, and generally make them feel like they're entering into a positive community.
• Revert free to original title 'beginner roleplay'
• Things go unreported because 'walking away' or 'handling it yourself' is seen as the better option (potentially linked to the perceived lack of punishment/follow up on reports)
• People think another large issue is the defensiveness people have of their own cliques.
• There were mixed feelings about arena, tabletop and nation RP. On the one hand people agreed that they were too different to be merged with other forums, on the other hand there was the question that they are not active enough to warrant their own forums, especially when you consider that arena had new functions added that are barely used and/or updated.
• Changing decorum and communication tactics can be a fix to activity problems.
• Reduce the number of sections to the old free, casual, advanced.
• Agreeing that we need to change doesn't mean people will change, because we cannot control other peoples actions and words.
• People don't want the community to be overly policed but feel the current rules are too vague and not policed well enough.
• Bans are not handed out often and when they are are often reverted due to a preference for warning rather than banning seems to exist, and users that say they are very sorry will be granted the request to remove the ban.
• Maintain the current system of simplicity that makes RPG feel 'like home' compared to other sites that 'try too hard'.
• NRP seems more willing to merge with advanced RP than tabletop and arena, perhaps because NRP is more comparable. Overall NRP'ers are afraid that the creativity has stagnated and hope that the merge might introduce new ideas.
• Moderators raise the point that their 'job description' is one of janitor but alternatively, the position of mod isn't one you get paid for, but one that you take because you like the community and/or are connected to it, therefore taking the extra step to engage with the community and remain a part of it is to be expected for at least a few members of the mod team.
• Engaging the community should in fact become part of the moderators' job because it builds community and breaks down the ivory tower that exists at the moment, while also ensuring that people become more aware of their presence (compared to now where certain moderators are entirely unknown).
• PM System is horrid and needs to be revised. Deleting PM's is to be #1 priority for Mahz before doing anything else.

Ultimately the discussion comes more or less to a halt when Sherlock Holmes responds. The exchange exposes that there are some things that are very hard to deal with currently without active involvement of the admin, Mahz, and without more acknowledgement from other moderators.

I am far from a point where I think things on this site are ok. The community is on life support (in a lot of respects) and the tools with which we have to moderate by are rudimentary compared to what we used to have. (Pre Guildfall.) At the moment, moderators have very little functional power, aside from banning and warning. That is pretty much all we are capable of, aside from hiding threads or moving them on occasion. We don't have the tools to research users like we once had, we don't have the ability to do temporary bans (unless we physically keep a list of time frames and physically ban/unban people on a case by case basis), we cannot do name changes or any other under the hood changes that most moderators on forums are able to do. People like to point out that the site needs some updates and for things to get finished -- the moderator tool kit is no different.

We'd all like for Mahz to be more active, but the reality is that he is a busy guy and we are not necessarily at the top of his list priority-wise. This is not to admonish him, this is simply a fact. I appreciate all that he has put together on this site and respect the fact that he pays for everything from his pocket out of the goodness of his heart, but I think we can all agree that we'd be blind if we ignored the fact that improvements/updates on the site need to be made. That all said, these are things that the moderators have discussed at length in our own forum -- I know I've personally said that I would like someone to be appointed as an admin to help Mahz and be more accessible on a regular basis. (Even though Contra Fates was spotty in her availability at times, she was at least accessible.) We've also discussed bringing on more moderators, but unless Mahz pops in, this is not within the moderator's toolbox and he would have to make the changes.

(We can discuss things all we want, ultimately the discussion does little unless we can get Mahz on board for some changes. It's the same in these regular threads as it is in the moderator forum -- we only have so much power.)

Priority issues for the moderators are getting more help -- both in a sense of potentially expanding the staff, as well as getting the moderator toolkit up to scratch. If Mahz can't be around, then he needs to share the abilities to make changes by appointing another admin or giving the moderators more power to make changes in his absence. As far as working as a moderator team, we seem to work fairly well together as far as communicating behind the scenes goes -- when there is a problem, it gets handled. Hank is right, however, when he says we're mostly 'janitors'. We sweep up after everyone, sorting out disagreements and whatnot, moving threads, and disposing of the spambots when applicable. Really, that's pretty much our lot day in and day out. It's not fun or glamorous, but a lot of stuff that gets done behind the scenes that regular users don't really see.

Could we be more engaging as moderators? I know I probably could, personally. While it's my preference to lay low, I can understand how that might create a bit of a detached feeling on my part from the regular community members. With the demise of Spam, which was my regular haunt (aside from my RP's), I don't post much outside of the moderator forum these days. I am around the site, but I don't tend to leave much of a trail outside of my moderating duties. I'm far from a perfect example of a moderator in terms of being sociable -- I do my duty and don't do much to grow the community these days. I could definitely work on that. (Part of it's available free time, part of it is a bit of apathy on my part because the community is a shadow of what it once was -- the first part is understandable, the latter part has no excuse.)

As far as appointing new moderators, I don't know that I have a way of improving the system devised, since we don't really appoint them anyhow. Really, it's always just been taking a community temperature and seeing who stands out based on recommendations. It's not a perfect system.

TL;DR -- I'm not as social as I could be, but I do keep up on my moderator duties. Our community needs some attention, both through site updates and community-building activities. We need more staff and the staff that we do have needs more power, so that we can do things in Mahz's absence.

@Sherlock Holmes

I suppose that I understand the pro's and con's of laying low. It's certainly more preferable and inspires (haha, this sounds dumb, but it's true) a sense of awe and seriousness when you do appear to make your presence known. Not that that works on everyone, but for newer members or members that treat this forum very seriously, it might. But I suppose that there also needs to be a trade off. You can't have a team full of moderators that are low key, busy or inactive, and then maintain that and expect it to work. You guys made a right step with Mag Lev I think. But you need a few more Mag Lev's in terms of activity. And I also feel like you need someone that is more willing to take a hardline and put his foot down every once in a while. But I can't be too sure. To be honest, you guys have become kind of a meme in terms of how much we can depend on you, and that's not really in the positive way. I'm sure you would like to turn that around and become known for dependability.

Your explanation to the capacity of what moderators can do explains a lot, I think. It isn't an excuse for why most moderators are so inactive, but it excuses why nothing ever seems to change on this website. But it seems that like before it leads me back to the same point. Why wasn't this communicated to us properly? It seems like if we were made more aware of these type of limitations, it'd have prevented a lot of headache. Failure to communicate is still failure.

It also begins to explain perhaps why the community is failing. Changes cannot be made without Mahz, who isn't here. But these changes are required to fix, fundamentally, the guild. I take it you agree with me on that, at least.

I guess your priorities make sense, to me, somewhat. But I have to say I don't like how you guys characterize yourself as janitors. This removes the burden of interaction with the community and as a result alienates you from us (even more than you already have). Whether or not interaction and engaging the community is part of your 'job description' seems irrelevant to me. You are a moderator not because you get paid, you are a moderator because (I presume) you enjoy the community and/or have connections to it somehow. To me that means you also need to take that extra step of being and remaining a part of the community. And that doesn't mean every moderator needs to be an active engaging member, but I'd say it at least means that the staff consists of some people that are actually involved in the community and are aware of whatever is happening inside the community. Again, ivory tower. Previous answers by other mods have only reinforced the idea to me that there is an ivory tower.

Disclosing what you guys do or not isn't really something I care about. I'm not looking for a message every time you move a thread or ban someone. But a statement regarding what you just described as to moderator priorities is definitely something I'd consider worthwhile mentioning.

But in the end all of that still comes down to Mahz' absence being kind of a stick in the wheel. And that sucks because it's an issue that I feel could be easily alleviated had he taken the precaution to foresee this situation and anticipate it and share some power with someone else (you, for example) that made running the guild easier while he was absent. At the moment RPG sounds like a monarchy without a monarch.

Is there any communication at all with Mahz? I know I saw him in the discord once, and Hank mentioned he had to check his skype, and mahz mentioned that he didn't use skype anymore (something like that). Seems to indicate that there's not a whole lot if any contact with Mahz. Seems.. really inefficient and stupid.

@Buddha

---

Additionally, there are some quotes here that are of relative interest:

"I think people, myself included, are afraid to take concrete steps toward solving this problem because the moment we do, Mahz and the mods will come back just long enough to put us in our place and remind us of who's boss. Then they'll fuck off again, having impeded our progress toward self-government but then refused to replace our system with their own. Some of us may be banned in the process, too, another large risk in taking any strong actions toward fixing this site."

@Pugbutter

Seems to me like the first course is figuring out a fallback plan in the event this site isn't viable to sustain by Mahz anymore.

All of this is pointless if we're really that vulnerable.

@ArenaSnow

I would love to see the 18+ and non-18+ separated as well. It would make it easier to have visibility for the non-romance 1x1s, and it would basically be a clear indicator when one entered the 18+ section of "Here be dragons." This is something I feel mods could do without needing coding or tags, but it would be annoying to move all the IntChecks there.

@JBRam2002

Though this is a new account, I've been on this website for a long time and I've reported several things to mods. Any response that I've gotten takes at least a week, and it's always been "Sorry, doesn't infringe on any of the rules, can't do anything about it." Even if people are being extremely rude and toxic, or even outright harassing others.

[...]

So as a community, we can declare that everyone should be nicer, the community needs to be more open, we need to stop being so negative and hard on the newbies, but realistically that's not going to happen unless there are consequences for people's actions. We can't magically make people nicer or more polite.

@Sylph

Has anyone proposed a separate "Status Bar" for moderators to post in? Just so we know they're all alive. It'd be great to pump out updates and notify people should there be anything happening, whether bug wise or an in general announcement.

Kinda like a 'Sticky' for Statuses.

@Solo

See, I agree and disagree with this sentiment [of moderator applications being an indicator of bad candidates] at the same time. I’ve actively been on message boards for around eighteen years, so I can attest to certain perspectives around moderation recruitment as I’ve not only been part of that management but also an active witness to several forms of it. People who “want” to be promoted to moderation staff fall into two camps: the first one is to help the site and expand the administration in a cohesive manner, and the other is the one we’ve heard before [with the stories of Guru and others] in that they do it to seek power and to instruct their will on others. If you presume that all people who admit interest or send offers of help are the latter, then you likely miss out on committed and active people who do care about the website.

And if you are looking for the “right fit”, that probably limits your recruitment policies.

Personally, I would suggest looking at RPG’s contemporaries like Iwaku Roleplay and Roleplay Adventures whom actually have moderator application forms that are submitted privately. A system that is very efficient for what they do. Of course, this would require Mahz to be available to give you the freedom to utilize this system as it currently stands you cannot do any changes until he is. But that’s a topic for another matter.

@Inkarnate

[Hank]

The only thing I have to say right now is that I agree with the point that incidents that break the Guild's rules (as simple as they are) should definitely be reported to the moderators. We are active but we often don't see what isn't brought to our attention as the staff is currently comprised of people who work full-time.

We trust the userbase to self-police most of the time. We're janitors, not police officers. That said, what can't be solved by reprimanding each other and reminding offenders of what the rules are should be PM'd to (one of) us. As it stands, this very rarely happens. I assume this means that my help is practically never needed. If that is not the case, the responsibility lies with the users to involve one of us to render judgement.

Mahz's continued absence is a result of his current workload and living situation in Mexico. There is nothing that can be done about that.

[Ammokkx]

Mahz's continued absence is a result of his current workload and living situation in Mexico. There is nothing that can be done about that.

@Hank

I mean, there's this line in the list:

"Recruiting prospective coders to possibly help Mahz out around the website."

He doesn't need to be the only one giving site updates, I'm fairly certain there's a few volunteer coders that would like to help out in their spare time. Heck, over in the other thread there was a running joke on people trying to band together to code a site similar to RPGuild.

[Lady Absinthia]

@Buddha As far as the Gm thing goes, I wrote a guide to Gming that includes a "keep your RP going" section on it. Gming 101 - Be more than happy to edit the original post to add more to that if anyone has input.

[Dion]

@Buddha As far as the Gm thing goes, I wrote a guide to Gming that includes a "keep your RP going" section on it. Gming 101 - Be more than happy to edit the original post to add more to that if anyone has input.

@Lady Amalthea

Barring the fact that I think your guide is a perfect example of what should be distributed at sign-in, this raises the point that nobody reads guides. I post my 'guides' there that are little more than summaries of subjects I study for my school and I'm honestly a little concerned with how much attention they have received over other, more RP related guides.

Pin guides that are related to RP's is a good solution to that. Your guide could even be pinned in (literally) every RP section just so that everyone sees it.

[Lady Absinthia]

@Buddha Yeah, I wish a lot of guides could get pinned and the tutorial/guide section get moved to the top of the forum. I started here on another account (Afina) - and when I came here I didn't even notice that section until I was here 3 months. When I finally found it, it answered a lot of questions I had to pm people about. (And somethings I didn't even know.)

I still go back there about once a week to look it over just to see what is new. (Have your topic about colors and symbols bookmarked. Seriously don't know what I would do without it. It is used constantly when I am coding my CS/Relation Sheets)

Actually, think I need to update my signature. I keep the etiquette guide there but maybe it is time for an update and add in Gming 101, Gming 201, and the Beginners Guide To Rp. (Which the last one really need some work) - But will have to wait until I finish Gming 301.

[Dion]

The only thing I have to say right now is that I agree with the point that incidents that break the Guild's rules (as simple as they are) should definitely be reported to the moderators. We are active but we often don't see what isn't brought to our attention as the staff is currently comprised of people who work full-time.

We trust the userbase to self-police most of the time. We're janitors, not police officers. That said, what can't be solved by reprimanding each other and reminding offenders of what the rules are should be PM'd to (one of) us. As it stands, this very rarely happens. I assume this means that my help is practically never needed. If that is not the case, the responsibility lies with the users to involve one of us to render judgement.

Mahz's continued absence is a result of his current workload and living situation in Mexico. There is nothing that can be done about that.

I think just saying 'this is how it is now' isn't actively helping beat the problem. Because even if you are satisfied with the way things work now, I can safely say from the interactions in the (now locked) thread yesterday that in fact a lot of people are dissatisfied with the way moderators are currently going to work. As I mentioned in the other thread, that isn't meant to critique you or your colleagues, because you guys are doing this voluntarily, but I think it's not a fair assessment to say 'people don't PM me, therefore everything is fine.'

Because it's the opposite. There's a lot of drama that you are unaware of (because it happens off-site, or not) that trickles over into RPG, noticed or not, and to the receive the response that it's off-site and therefore not important is disheartening and tells me I can do whatever I want off site to harass people into slipping up on RPG. Or perhaps it's a sign to you that says 'people aren't PMing me, but somehow are raising concerns in a discussion thread, perhaps there's a reason people aren't PMing me.' Something such as a lack of trust in moderators to deal with issues according to (what they perceive to be) fair and equal manners. Because I definitely feel like the rules are applied rather arbitrarily and at will. And given the discussion yesterday as well as discussion in my discord server has shown that I am not alone in this.

And like I said before, again, I respect that you guys are doing this thankless job voluntarily and for free. But moderating is also a commitment and I think it's fair that the playerbase expects you to actually do something then. Working full time is fine and well, and it's a good thing, but I don't think it's an excuse to say that you're not omniscient, because you have 4 staff members for an average of 200 members online during peak hours. I don't know. I don't want to say 'I feel like you should be online and present more' but really, that's what it comes down to. Because 4 staff members should be enough to monitor 200 active members at peak hours. And evidently it's not, as you just stated yourself that you guys aren't aware of what is happening most of the time.

As for Mahz, there is little to say about that. I can't blame him because he's doing this as a service, for free, and that is to be respected. But at the same time it's not really realistic to say his prolonged absence has made it so that RPG is now stagnating. I'm not even sure why veterans hang around RPG anymore, because there are so many broken features that are not fixed, and so many useless features added that do not contribute to the core of RPG.

The arena system comes to mind. A new leaderboard for a dead subforum. Amazing. I see a whole 20 matches have been played to completion. Awesome. Meanwhile I still can't dependably access visitor messages where I left them and someone replied to them. I raised that issue, if we're being generous, when Mahz was still active, and he made a ticket for it, and it remains unfixed to that day.

So yes, maybe having someone else here who can take a look at code and so on might be useful. Preferably someone drawn from the playerbase (roleplaying is for nerds so it shouldn't be so hard to find a coder, right?)

[Dion]

@Buddha Yeah, I wish a lot of guides could get pinned and the tutorial/guide section get moved to the top of the forum. I started here on another account (Afina) - and when I came here I didn't even notice that section until I was here 3 months. When I finally found it, it answered a lot of questions I had to pm people about. (And somethings I didn't even know.)

I still go back there about once a week to look it over just to see what is new. (Have your topic about colors and symbols bookmarked. Seriously don't know what I would do without it. It is used constantly when I am coding my CS/Relation Sheets)

Actually, think I need to update my signature. I keep the etiquette guide there but maybe it is time for an update and add in Gming 101, Gming 201, and the Beginners Guide To Rp. (Which the last one really need some work) - But will have to wait until I finish Gming 301.

@Lady Amalthea

Agreed, it's probably the first thing I'd revise if I was admin. I don't like forcing people to read things but this is a case where I'd definitely make an effort to make sure people read it or at least look at it.

Sometimes accessibility and centralization of information is all you need. All the things that are in guides are in hindsight rather easy to find online, but having them on RPG definitely makes it better and more easy while writing a post. Especially for colors and symbols. It's easy to open GIMP, find a color you like, and then use the hexcode. It's easier to have it on RPG. *SHRUG.* It is what it is, and I'm not feeling like we can say this will change soon because I don't have faith in that.

[Celaira]

Welp. I guess I should take learning Javascript more seriously now. Rip. For those that don't know, if you want to read the guild's source code, it is on github. Here you go. Not sure if this will be super helpful because Mahz has to approve pulls, but yeah. I plan on going back through and rereading this while I practice code.

[Dion]

Welp. I guess I should take learning Javascript more seriously now. Rip. For those that don't know, if you want to read the guild's source code, it is on github. Here you go. Not sure if this will be super helpful because Mahz has to approve pulls, but yeah. I plan on going back through and rereading this while I practice code.

@Celaira

Not a solution for me personally. I don't know how to code. And the fact that the github isn't somewhere readily available also shows to me that this isn't even really the preferred method of improving the site (for Mahz).

[Celaira]

<Snipped quote by Celaira>

Not a solution for me personally. I don't know how to code. And the fact that the github isn't somewhere readily available also shows to me that this isn't even really the preferred method of improving the site (for Mahz).

@Buddha

It's how he changes the site, so I'd hope it was. The link is also at the bottom of every page, as well, I just thought it'd be nice to have it in the thread too. ^^

The biggest issue I see with this, however, is we don't have access to stuff like the MYSQL database (unless I missed the database code in the github, in which case, oops), or anything particularly serverside. Now, don't get me wrong I definitely understand why that is, but a lot of the issues with the site (according to Mahz) have been related to that, and I do think having--at the very least--a second pair of eyes to look at that would be a tremendous help to him.

EDIT: SQL is a visible folder in the github!

[Dion]

@Celaira ah yes. The small letters. How could I have not seen that. I mean it might offer some solutions to the functional problems of RPG, like the guild shitting itself, but I don't think it offers any solution to the overall problems we face on RPG.

[Meth Quokka]

Okay, I'll start off my saying I closed the last thread early because it was trending away from the right topic and after the spam event, I felt it was better off to restart the conversation.

Now to give my personal opinion of the situation.

There are deficiencies with mod availability, I will freely admit that. We're all busy people and how we effectively moderate is through mod reports - whether by PM or DM on discord. As to needing extra mods, from our discussions every one of us is in agreement that we either need more mods or people more available, however a bad previous experience with a mod makes mod selection very important. As to the claim that we perhaps don't care about the site; I can see how that would come across but again it's a factor of time. I've personally offered a few times to resign my modship for a more active user if Mahz didn't want to increase the number of mods then he could use the spot I occupied.

I think subforum mods are a bad idea; we don't want staff actively combing through threads to hunt down every infraction - our moderator model was always built on responding to requests rather than active hunting. This is the way I personally believe it should be done and that is the way we five original mods decided we were going to do it.

There are problems with the server infrastructure, however at the end of the day Mahz does pay the bills and self-funded this site despite not using it for a number of years. I can understand the desire to see other people to work on it to progress it but as I understand the hesitation is over what happens if one of the coders leaves/goes rogue and then there;s a really big mess to clean up. I understand that it is frustrating to see a community start to wither, I've been on here since 2009 so I do feel an attachment to this place.

Looking forward, I'm happy to support and work with community projects as best I can - I've supported community run news/contests in the past and I'd love to see that continue in the future.

[Lady Absinthia]

@Kangaroo If I may make a suggestion as far as mods go, and God forgive me I can't believe I am saying this, but perhaps an application could be posted for those that have some time to help?

I still cannot believe I said that, I've always gone by the rule "never appoint someone as a mod who wants to be a mod" - Why? Because it usually backfires. I've admin and modded for places like Priston Tales, and Adventure Quest (their Rp sections) along time ago in a galaxy far far away. I understand the stress of picking a mod that will be a good balance of getting the job done without alienating the forum because "power" went to their head. I also can sympathise with getting an admin to appoint people to help lessen the work for others because as a staff you get tight knit and count on each other.

Yet, perhaps it could help here. An application to feel a few things out. Yes, would take time and work for the mod staff but in the end would benefit the mods and lessen the load over all. I have a feeling Mahz is the only one who can do the actual appointing but if you all had a list ready of "prescreened" applicants it might help.

I wouldn't go for nominations persay from the general public, turns into a popularity contest instead of getting the most qualified.

But a few new bloods could help. If anything because people might be more likely to contact those they see around a bit more and have rped with. I know when I came here I had some issues I should have reported but actually reporting made me feel "off" so I kept my mouth shut. One situation got bad. Granted once I did report it, it was quickly taken care of. But just that feeling comfortable factor took sometime.

Any who, my two bronze pieces as it were.

[Dion]

Okay, I'll start off my saying I closed the last thread early because it was trending away from the right topic and after the spam event, I felt it was better off to restart the conversation.

Now to give my personal opinion of the situation.

There are deficiencies with mod availability, I will freely admit that. We're all busy people and how we effectively moderate is through mod reports - whether by PM or DM on discord. As to needing extra mods, from our discussions every one of us is in agreement that we either need more mods or people more available, however a bad previous experience with a mod makes mod selection very important. As to the claim that we perhaps don't care about the site; I can see how that would come across but again it's a factor of time. I've personally offered a few times to resign my modship for a more active user if Mahz didn't want to increase the number of mods then he could use the spot I occupied.

I think subforum mods are a bad idea; we don't want staff actively combing through threads to hunt down every infraction - our moderator model was always built on responding to requests rather than active hunting. This is the way I personally believe it should be done and that is the way we five original mods decided we were going to do it.

There are problems with the server infrastructure, however at the end of the day Mahz does pay the bills and self-funded this site despite not using it for a number of years. I can understand the desire to see other people to work on it to progress it but as I understand the hesitation is over what happens if one of the coders leaves/goes rogue and then there;s a really big mess to clean up. I understand that it is frustrating to see a community start to wither, I've been on here since 2009 so I do feel an attachment to this place.

@Kangaroo

Alright, first off, thanks for taking the time to reply. Given the attitudes in the previous thread, I feel like not replying as a moderator would've been a bad step forwards and, admittedly, I wanted to force at least some reaction.

a bad previous experience with a mod makes mod selection very important

I have heard this a few times and I'm aware of this situation that arose. Furthermore, I'd like to add that mod selection is always important, even if this scenario hadn't occurred. Me personally, I don't feel too confident in the current moderators to pick a new moderator that would be good. Partially because as it is there is already a gigantic disconnect between the roleplayers and the moderators. How are you going to be aware of who is best suited to be a mod?

But I also don't feel confident in 'us' to elect new moderators, nor do I feel confident in Mahz to pick new ones because he's been away for too long to comfortably pick someone. So what are we left with? Nothing. So I'm curious as to how you/the moderators see this process taking place.

I can see how that would come across but again it's a factor of time

Perhaps true, but perceptions are more important than your real intentions here if your intentions are not communicated. Which as you said yourself in discord, you cannot freely discuss everything. This forces our (the roleplayers) hands in assuming and when there's not a whole lot of activity on-site coming from you and the others, there is a distort, because we are lead to believe that you guys aren't doing anything, and because we can't see that you guys are in fact doing something, this slowly turns into 'how it is' for us.

Which is why I spoke about community engagement because frankly speaking I only know you by name, I only know Hank from my interactions with him about whatever infractions I have incurred and I know Mag because he's the only moderator that was frequently active in RPG chat and that I occasionally spoke with outside of moderator business. And I think that it might be wise to have a bigger level of engagement with people.

I think subforum mods are a bad idea

They are. But they still exist. I had no idea who Rilla was until yesterday when I had to ask someone who the hell Rilla was because I sure as hell never heard of him. And I found out then he was 'moderator' in name only as he was essentially a subforum mod for arena (a dead forum, really). I'm sure he does more than just that. But, de facto, that is kinda how it is from my understanding.

But yes I'll agree that subforum mods are a bad idea.

This is the way I personally believe it should be done and that is the way we five original mods decided we were going to do it.

Then I would advise to regain some trust from the community. I'll use an example here:

Some time ago I know there were complaints about my activity in the status bar. I might be shooting myself in the foot here but I was never warned individually nor was I ever warned officially. Perhaps acting in cases like that might've made your case stronger but to be fair, all I can say to your above point is 'okay, who cares' because at the end of the day, there's not really that much to show for this approach as far as I am aware (and again, perception is very important when it comes to that).

I will not touch upon server infrastructure because I don't really believe we need a 2nd co-owner or a coder. I'm fine if the guild stagnates function wise as long as current features are fixed and no longer broken as fuck. I can even deal with the server shitting itself every 2 minutes. All we can really do is wait for Mahz to return from his job in Mexico and I'm fine with that, as long as other issues are addressed in the mean time. How is communication with Mahz now that he's working? He only shows up when the server dies. Is that intentional?

I might contact you about a community project in the future once I figure out how I want to tackle it.

[Garattee]

For those mentioning the need of 'new blood' mods because the current ones are out of touch should remember the upside that those who have power are mostly impartial. I can see why you'd want a super active member to be a mod, but then that could have its downsides if said person or people had friends or enemies.

As far as the sub-forums go, I think there should be a smut and non smut section for the 1x1s because I too feel uncomfortable with certain themes getting lumped in alongside the more 'family friendly' ones.

Also Casual RP could be split into Low-Mid-High casual just for the sake of more space.

[Lady Absinthia]

@Garattee I don't see why we need a smut and non smut section. Smut isn't supposed to be on the forum. Adult themes have to be kept to pm's. That really should just put as part of the 1x1 interest check, whether or not the person is open to it.

As far as more active mods... Everyone has friends and enemies on the forums. Even our current mods, heck they might actually have more enemies than most around here. They enforce the rules, that rarely keep people from becoming hated on some level. Current mods also have friends here and long standing loyalties. So while it could be a downside, it is one All mods already have to face. Part of being a mod is staying unbiased.

[Meth Quokka]

@Lady Amalthea

To me, anyone who wants to be a mod probably isn't going to do too great in the role - then again people would argue I'm not either. In my case I was asked to test some forum tools on newguild and kept a mod status since then. In terms of activity, from what I've seen from our discussion we do agree that a few more mods would be nice but again, it's having the right ones.

@Buddha

When you talk about this 'disconnect' that may be true for the community as a whole but not necessarily everyone inside of it. As a mod I pay attention to the way people deal with other's situation to evaluate how I think they'd be a mod. The reality of a new selection process is that the mods can make suggestions but ultimately it's Mahz's decision.

Now there have been a number of plans and concepts which never came off around how to run staffing but again it falls back to this is Mahz's hobby, not his job.

As to the reporting system - in every forum there is a pinned thread which instructs you to report incidents. If incidents aren't reported, they can't be dealth with. Unless you want mods trawling through every thread on the forum.

The status bar is a unique case in that it was sprung on and to be honesy, we never designed a guideline for a live updated status bar. I think you'll find every mod's perception is at least a little different. But is what you expect from a mod team to be constantly refreshing and patrolling a white board?

[Cyndyr]

I don't see why we need a smut and non smut section. Smut isn't supposed to be on the forum. Adult themes have to be kept to pm's. That really should just put as part of the 1x1 interest check, whether or not the person is open to it.

@Lady Amalthea

As someone who actively uses the 1x1 Interest Check section, I entirely think that a tag to separate smut searches from non-related smut searches is entirely needed. It's a pain in the butt to scroll through three pages of mature Roleplay searches in order to find a fantasy, dystopian, or whatever your taste of Roleplay is. Some people have even avoided the 1x1 Interest Check section because of this while others had made it into a "joke" of sorts.