A question for my beloved guild colleagues

[mickilennial]

You should understand the framing of the whole comment rather than just nitpicking one sentence out of context from a comment. But idk.

See, but that's the big question of this thread. The question isn't 'are you personally compelled to read every post either out of obligation or out of respect'.

@Odin

But what kind of people typically don’t read posts as expected? I think that’s what people like Nutts, Lady A, and myself are taking from that question. I’m thinking in the prospective point of the general case, not exceptions – not uncommon cases. It’s where I come to the conclusion that in a typical collaborative effort that it is not only without manners but unacceptable to not read posts. Perhaps I could’ve analyzed the question beyond how I looked at it, but understand that I was coming at it from a certain angle.

[vancexentan]

I personally don't believe every single post needs to be read. This is my own opinions of course others need to disagree. But when two people are talking to each other and it doesn't involve the story, or the character you're a part of whatsoever then you have no obligation to read it. You may want to it may help solidify your understanding of other characters but it can also lead to some meta gaming potential say what if character A said to B that they liked cake. Then when character A meets C then C offers the aforementioned Cake for no reason.

Basically it's up to you in my own opinion. I feel the need to add 'my opinion' because I don't feel like arguing about this.

[Ammokkx]

Basically it's up to you in my own opinion. I feel the need to add 'my opinion' because I don't feel like arguing about this.

@vancexentan

Just 'cause it's your opinion doesn't mean you get to use it as a shield from criticism :U

but it can also lead to some meta gaming potential

@vancexentan

Metagaming is an issue on a person's end, not a consequence of reading all posts. You should know this better than anyone, being a GM of many roleplays.

[Dion]

You should understand the framing of the whole comment rather than just nitpicking one sentence out of context from a comment. But idk.

@Inkarnate

In this case the framing doesn't change a thing about how I read and understand the comment. 'If you don't read all posts, you're not being a good roleplayer/not a roleplayer at all. You should go write solo because then you don't have to read anything.' Chose not to go into that discussion further because at that point we'd be arguing semantics and since I know a few of you, I'd rather not, and focus on the discussion at hand.

But what kind of people typically don’t read posts as expected? I think that’s what people like Nutts, Lady A, and myself are taking from that question. I’m thinking in the prospective point of the general case, not exceptions – not uncommon cases. It’s where I come to the conclusion that in a typical collaborative effort that it is not only without manners but unacceptable to not read posts. Perhaps I could’ve analyzed the question beyond how I looked at it, but understand that I was coming at it from a certain angle.

@Inkarnate

I think even in your angle there are glaring issues with requiring people to read any and all posts. Speaking from own experience and realistically, roleplayerguild GM's are not known for their people skills. So excuse me for being wary of 'requirements' in terms of having to read things. Although the sentiment behind it is understandable, I have my doubts that this requirement would be phrased in a way that didn't come off as arrogant and authoritative. Now, I don't have anything against authoritative people, I enjoy it, but fact of the matter is that most people do not.

So from that standpoint, I've got my doubts that the requirement being posed would be portrayed in a way where it wouldn't put off people - in a personality standpoint, not the requirement itself.

But that's not really an issue with the requirement itself and more with the people and is, as I stated, based on my own experiences and how I view people on RPG.

The manners I've already discussed. Yeah, it's rude, but just being rude isn't a reason to make it a priority 1 requirement. The RP can and will continue if you shirk on your duty to read all posts, especially those that don't influence you anyway. As stated before I think it's good to read all posts. But.. I fail to see the necessity.

Unacceptable? From what perspective? That's a vague way to put it. What makes it unacceptable. The idea that you can't write a good post without reading other posts? Or just the fact that is is expected and therefore unacceptable if you don't do it?

[Dervish]

I personally don't believe every single post needs to be read. This is my own opinions of course others need to disagree. But when two people are talking to each other and it doesn't involve the story, or the character you're a part of whatsoever then you have no obligation to read it. You may want to it may help solidify your understanding of other characters but it can also lead to some meta gaming potential say what if character A said to B that they liked cake. Then when character A meets C then C offers the aforementioned Cake for no reason.

Basically it's up to you in my own opinion. I feel the need to add 'my opinion' because I don't feel like arguing about this.

@vancexentan

Or as a counterpoint, end of a scene with posts you aren't reading suddenly include your character and you don't respond to it until after people bug you about it and now you have to read back several posts to figure out what's going on.

You might say, "Well, that's why people tell you you're involved", but that's putting responsibility on them that could be mitagated entirely if you'd just been following along.

Like Ammo said, metagaming is a personal problem that any half decent roleplayer won't get caught up in. If it is a problem, the GM needs to step in, simple as that.

[Dion]

Like Ammo said, metagaming is a personal problem that any half decent roleplayer won't get caught up in. If it is a problem, the GM needs to step in, simple as that.

@Dervish

IMHO, this is correct, but I'd go further and say that not reading along with the RP is a personal problem and show of character. That way we hit both nails in one hit - you get rid of metagamers, and you make reading posts the personal responsibility of anyone involved in the RP.

That way, you also make it so that individual GM's can all have their own idea on whether people should read everything or not.. which we've been doing anyway.

I think that answers both questions - those related to metagaming (it's a personal problem) and that related to not reading problems (also a personal problem, and one that the GM can have their own approach to.. which is how it's been done as long as RPG has existed).

[pugbutter]

It really makes it hard to read other people's posts when 90% is pure fluff and personal thoughts of their character.

@Bishop

Glad I'm not alone in this. Thank God for college because while mostly useless, the one thing it invariably teaches lazy bastards like me is how to skim-read and gather only the most pertinent information from a long, bloated text. I read only the most necessary chunks of bad writers' posts because roleplaying is a hobby, and if my hobby makes me cringe and otherwise causes me discomfort instead of pleasure then it fails to serve its own fundamental purpose: entertainment. Having to skim five paragraphs for the two sentences of relevant information hidden therein is annoying enough without being told in this thread that I'm "disgusting" for daring not to enjoy myself as I trudge through a page of redundant and pretentious prose, dreadful characters, and superfluous information which will never help me assimilate into the game world.

Most players should be mature enough to suffer their own actions' consequences anyway, so if they end up not reading something which is crucial to the story then why not realize they brought it upon themselves? Wanting to force anyone to read your posts is arrogant enough, but doubly so when you declare on their behalf that you know better than them what information they should be gleaning from the texts.

Isn't that, like, a metaphysical example of "telling" instead of "showing"? Your writing should speak for itself. If this problem has followed people across many RPs then I'd propose that it's no longer an issue of audience but one of a writer who reliably fails to engage them. Instead of trying to hold your audience at gunpoint and coerce them into reading your bad posts, learning how to create a better hook and how to write in a more direct, precise style, one with fewer pointless details and less artistic autofellatio, will actually get them excited to read. If no one wants to read your contributions to the story then you should interpret their indifference as a chance to improve your skills, not a chance to feel indignant about no one paying attention to you. The real "disgusting" thing to be found in this thread is that some of you would rather blame your fellow roleplayers for problems which may very well reside within your own writing. I know that I for one am eager to read a thread (even one in which I'm not participating!) when the plot progresses steadily, the characters mature and develop in real time, and the setting and genre are presented in unique ways.

Food for thought. Of course this doesn't account for irreconcilable stylistic differences between players; you'll never please everyone, and some people aren't interested in reading anyone's writing but their own no matter how good it may be.

[Bishop]

I assume no one reads my posts so I feel better about skimming through theirs...or so I wish I could say...
I have this fixation that I have to read through every single post in an RP-> Main reason for quitting most Rps. I just can't bear it, everything becomes fuzzy, I lose sight of the main goal of the RP. It's like I'm Si..si..I mean fck who created this name? I mean this guy.

The more I read the heavier the ball gets and then comes a time where it gets so heavy I can't push anymore. My arms simply can't hold up the ball anymore and it starts rolling me down.
I mean seriously, look at that shit rotating. His hands and feet must be on fire.

And on that note, I'll be dropping this RP. You guys write long arse post which contain only thoughts and opinions = fluff.
Later.

[yoshua171]

@Bishop This...this isn't a roleplay though.

[BrokenPromise]

I don't skip reading posts, but I will say that posts that are largely inner monologs I tend to skim. Unless I'm the GM or I otherwise have something to gain from reading such things. I think people monologue out of habit because it's a pretty easy way to avoid "PLAYER X IS IGNORING ME REEEEEEEEEEEEE." but paragraphs dedicated to inner thoughts can usually be ignored anyway, as they don't really influence anything going on in the RP. That, or the thoughts are so painfully obvious that they don't really need to be narrated. and in collabs when all parties involved are narrating. UGH!

Another thing that sends me into skim mode is when one decides to personally narrate an event that was already covered in detail by other players. If you want to react in response to Janet throwing a pencil at mark's head, you probably don't have to narrate the entire paragraph long episode again. I mean, your character's only contribution is saying "Hey! pencils are for writing, not throwing!" And you don't have to be very smart to know who your character is talking to. Well, maybe you do. Depends if the other players read the pencil toss post or not. But this is why I at least skim every post in an RP.

I speak as a player here. If you're a GM, reading everything is a must for obvious reasons.

[Dion]

And on that note, I'll be dropping this RP. You guys write long arse post which contain only thoughts and opinions = fluff.
Later.

@Bishop

"I'm gonna partake in a discussion thread where people are literally asked for their thoughts in the opening post, then I'm gonna say you guys are writing too much in your arguments and leave."

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[pugbutter]

@Odin I don't blame him, seeing as you're a person whom's posts are not even to the quality of cheap hack today. ;^)

[Dervish]

Thoughts + opinions = bad, apparently.

Looks like we have a synth in our midst.

[Dion]

@pugbutter i cant help it, the mighty moderators of Roleplayerguil have simply bestowed the honor of being the one whom'st've'd't'se writing is equal to cheap hack not only today but all of the times's't've'd.

[KoL]

Well, that's an interesting subjects that comes across very frequently in the RPs I take part as either a GM or Co-GM.

I think that it's a matter of respect and mutual understanding, really. If you feel bad when people ignore parts of your posts (possible going out of your way to remember them via OOC or PM), you shouldn't ignore others' posts as well. It's a reciprocal relationship between you and your RPing peers.

That said, every rule has its exception and, as long as it's not harming the RP in any way, I hardly care for what the people I play with do. It's a tad too presumptuous of anyone to demand that people do this or do that just to fulfill their writer's ego.

And, let's be sincere, some of us may not even have the time to do anything more than skim read before posting a reply. Or they may read, get distracted by something else and forget some important part.

However, when it's a continuous problem then it has to be addressed by the GMs as soon as it's noticed. Negligence leads to conflicts and disinterest, both of which can kill a RP quite fast.

This happened multiple times at the main RP I'm Co-GMing at the moment, since people were prone to forget about pretty blatant events (like, a certain character who has grown infamous killing waves of PCs by gassing entire battlefields at once) until it's too late. "How the hell have I been breathing corrosive poison gas for 15 minutes and not noticed?" is the single most used complaint when players find their characters dead out of nowhere there.

After some time we finally worked it out with everyone, but the amount of frustration from people not reading/not paying enough attention to others' posts almost killed that RP 4 times or so.

Even so it's still funny to see people dying to very loud/flashy and very avoidable wide area attacks that they failed to acknowledge until it's too late.

[Dervish]

Well, that's an interesting subjects that comes across very frequently in the RPs I take part as either a GM or Co-GM.

I think that it's a matter of respect and mutual understanding, really. If you feel bad when people ignore parts of your posts (possible going out of your way to remember them via OOC or PM), you shouldn't ignore others' posts as well. It's a reciprocal relationship between you and your RPing peers.

That said, every rule has its exception and, as long as it's not harming the RP in any way, I hardly care for what the people I play with do. It's a tad too presumptuous of anyone to demand that people do this or do that just to fulfill their writer's ego.

And, let's be sincere, some of us may not even have the time to do anything more than skim read before posting a reply. Or they may read, get distracted by something else and forget some important part.

However, when it's a continuous problem then it has to be addressed by the GMs as soon as it's noticed. Negligence leads to conflicts and disinterest, both of which can kill a RP quite fast.

This happened multiple times at the main RP I'm Co-GMing at the moment, since people were prone to forget about pretty blatant events (like, a certain character who has grown infamous killing waves of PCs by gassing entire battlefields at once) until it's too late. "How the hell have I been breathing corrosive poison gas for 15 minutes and not noticed?" is the single most used complaint when players find their characters dead out of nowhere there.

After some time we finally worked it out with everyone, but the amount of frustration from people not reading/not paying enough attention to others' posts almost killed that RP 4 times or so.

Even so it's still funny to see people dying to very loud/flashy and very avoidable wide area attacks that they failed to acknowledge until it's too late.

@KoL

"Oh my, sure is smoggy today. I wonder why everyone is taking a nap?"