DC Universe: Anarchy

[TheUnknowable]

@Double He actually has a good reason to not pursue him for that murder, and is having John Stewart investigate him for multiple other crimes, including other murders.

The reason is a secret that will be revealed during the RP though.

[RumikoOhara]

Trinity hunts the killers for free, even lost pets if the person reveals they don't have the money

[Double]

@TheUnknowable Every single thing you described are the actions of a textbook Anti-Villain.

[TheUnknowable]

@DoubleHaving a noble goal but doing evil things to achieve it is an anti-hero, by your own definition.

Was George Washington an anti-villain? He overthrew a government in his country for the sake of Freedom.

[TheUnknowable]

@RumikoOharaWould she turn down money if they offered to pay her for helping them, or at least giving them priority over missing pets, shop lifters, and purse snatchers?

[RumikoOhara]

The definition is a tricky one and can shift with your point of view

I once played an RP where I had a logical argument over alignment with a Paladin who'd Invaded my Tower claiming I was evil simply because I was a Vampire, I pointed out that he had invaded my home simply because he disagreed with my state of being. That I hadn't broken any local laws and in fact served the community as the local executioner as a method of feeding.

He was the one that had broken the local law and I would have been within my rights to call the city guard on him

[Double]

@DoubleHaving a noble goal but doing evil things to achieve it is an anti-hero, by your own definition.

Was George Washington an anti-villain? He overthrew a government in his country for the sake of Freedom.

@TheUnknowable

Anti-Heroes are Heroes who lack heroic traits, or do less than heroic deeds for a greater good. The difference is that an Anti-Hero will actually admit that what he does is wrong, and will often actively wish there was a better way. Case and point, Batman. Yes he works outside the law, naturally. But Bruce is constantly lamenting that he even has to do what he does in the first place, that he would like nothing more than for Gotham to clean up its act so he doesn't have to keep wearing the cowl.

And George Washington isn't even remotely similar to Anarchy. Yes, the Colonists overthrew the British rule. But they established an actual legitimate government in its place. What Anarchy is doing is not even close to the same. He overthrew the government and then proceeded to replace it with absolutely nothing. He even took it a step further and abolished all Police and presumably Military. Did he even stop to think about the economic repercussions of his actions? The guy literally fired every single police officer and possibly every single soldier in service. That is hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people that are suddenly out of work and now looking for a new job. The economy is so fucked in that scenario. And I seriously doubt Anarchy can simply hire them all for his security company, no way. Not even Bruce Wayne is that rich. And what about Lexcorp? Since Luthor's gone his company is likely down the toilet, which means all his employees are now also without a job. There's a very high probability that Metropolis is slowly devolving into becoming another Gotham because of this.

[RumikoOhara]

@TheUnknowable

Trinity defines the priority of her power use in an odd way which is reflected by how badly the person needing her feels due to their experiences. She can also be the hardest hearted person in the world if it is to hold one of her stipulations. I wrote a story about her in which she refuses to see a murder site which might save the execution of an innocent man unless the Detective agreed to take his wife on vacation. She had seen the trouble his work load was putting on his marriage and liked the couple and didn't know the man.

Her heart is cold because she has exposed herself to sights that many avoid; to harden her heart to the exposure of the sights she knew she must watch she went the Worst concentration camps of WWII and forced herself to watch the countless crimes

[TheUnknowable]

<Snipped quote by TheUnknowable>

Anti-Heroes are Heroes who lack heroic traits, or do less than heroic deeds for a greater good. The difference is that an Anti-Hero will actually admit that what he does is wrong, and will often actively wish there was a better way. Case and point, Batman. Yes he works outside the law, naturally. But Bruce is constantly lamenting that he even has to do what he does in the first place, that he would like nothing more than for Gotham to clean up its act so he doesn't have to keep wearing the cowl.

And George Washington isn't even remotely similar to Anarchy. Yes, the Colonists overthrew the British rule. But they established an actual legitimate government in its place. What Anarchy is doing is not even close to the same. He overthrew the government and then proceeded to replace it with absolutely nothing. He even took it a step further and abolished all Police and presumably Military. Did he even stop to think about the economic repercussions of his actions? The guy literally fired every single police officer and possibly every single soldier in service. That is hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people that are suddenly out of work and now looking for a new job. The economy is so fucked in that scenario. And I seriously doubt Anarchy can simply hire them all for his security company, no way. Not even Bruce Wayne is that rich. And what about Lexcorp? Since Luthor's gone his company is likely down the toilet, which means all his employees are now also without a job. There's a very high probability that Metropolis is slowly devolving into becoming another Gotham because of this.

@Double

1) You are assuming that a government is inherently good, despite the fact that a government only functions through theft and violence.
But this is getting too much into politics, which could ruin the RP.

2) If you shut down a crime ring, do you lament the loss of jobs it's employees suffered? No. They find other jobs if they weren't arrested. In this scenario, there are huge numbers of new businesses being created, and anyone can start their own and offer goods or services if they wish. Sure, it won't be fixed instantly, and things will likely go down hill for a while (creating a demand for experienced police and military) but it will stabilize once enough new jobs exist.

3) Luthor's still around. He's leading Lexcorp. If I indicated otherwise somewhere, I'll fix it.

[TheUnknowable]

@RumikoOharaSo, I need to bring in the grieving window of the man the Joker murdered if I want her help finding him or evidence of his crime.

[Double]

<Snipped quote by Double>

1) You are assuming that a government is inherently good, despite the fact that a government only functions through theft and violence.
But this is getting too much into politics, which could ruin the RP.

2) If you shut down a crime ring, do you lament the loss of jobs it's employees suffered? No. They find other jobs if they weren't arrested. In this scenario, there are huge numbers of new businesses being created, and anyone can start their own and offer goods or services if they wish. Sure, it won't be fixed instantly, and things will likely go down hill for a while (creating a demand for experienced police and military) but it will stabilize once enough new jobs exist.

3) Luthor's still around. He's leading Lexcorp. If I indicated otherwise somewhere, I'll fix it.

@TheUnknowable

1. No, I'm not assuming it's inherently good. I'm asserting that it's inherently necessary.

2. Jobs don't just magically appear out of thin air. You need supply, demand, and money to make that happen. Not everyone has access to those things.

3. Fair enough regarding Luthor, I'll concede that point to you.

It's not just firing the police and military that screws over the economy. What about all the disabled people, retirees, and others who were living (sometimes not even comfortably) on social security? Well, I guess they're right fucked, aren't they? Anarchy is deluding himself if he honestly believes this system is going to last. Either he's going to get overthrown/assassinated so that the government can be reinstated, or in the worst case scenario the country is going to nosedive into splintering political factions declaring independence and governing themselves. Anarchy could quash them, but that would be admitting that he's running a government now wouldn't it? I just cannot fathom why you're so surprised that the majority of us see him as the Villain in all of this.

[RumikoOhara]

@RumikoOharaSo, I need to bring in the grieving widow of the man the Joker murdered if I want her help finding him or evidence of his crime.

@TheUnknowable

Not really, if you wanted to know how he did his crime or to watch him commit his crime just dial 1-888-W.I.T.N.E.S.S. and you will be connected with Trinity Investigations & Special Services. You may talk to Trinity herself or one of her Temp secretaries who will use a question list written up by the boss. If your crime is against a normal by a super then you go to the front of the list.

The personal approach works well with Trinity if you can prove your need.

She also translates Languages Written or Spoken for a fee

[TheUnknowable]

@DoubleI just don't see it as being as black and white as "villain or hero".

I don't entirely agree with his actions, he should have just started his own colony to start his society, but once he started taking out government sites and drawing in the JL, it's understandable that he would side with the enemies of his enemy.

I think that, at least, he would see his actions as the best option and his goal as noble. Not sure if that makes him an anti-villain, but he sees himself as an anti-hero.

[TheUnknowable]

@RumikoOharaBut does the Joker count as a super?

Guess it doesn't really matter in the long run. I'll probably use something similar to draw you into the story if you need it. Maybe it could explain why you're at the Phoenix main office.

[Double]

@DoubleI just don't see it as being as black and white as "villain or hero".

I don't entirely agree with his actions, he should have just started his own colony to start his society, but once he started taking out government sites and drawing in the JL, it's understandable that he would side with the enemies of his enemy.

I think that, at least, he would see his actions as the best option and his goal as noble. Not sure if that makes him an anti-villain, but he sees himself as an anti-hero.

@TheUnknowable

He can view himself as whatever he wants. What matters is what everyone else sees him as. Shockingly enough, most villains don't refer to themselves as villains (Unless you're The Joker, but he's the exception, not the rule). Hell, most of them insist that they are the heroes, even the rest of the world doesn't see it that way. The world unanimously agrees that Hitler was an evil bastard. But did he see himself as an evil bastard? Hell no, he thought he was saving Germany/the world from the Jews and all the other minority groups targeted in the Holocaust.

[TheUnknowable]

@DoubleFair enough. I'll just say he's an anti-villain that many people see as a villain. Including several PCs.

[Double]

@TheUnknowable It's perfectly fine if Anarchy thinks he's the hero in-universe. After all, we're all the protagonists of our own stories. Just don't expect other characters to see him the same way. ;)

[rocketrobie2]

I'd be interested in this if you guy's will have me

[TheUnknowable]

@rocketrobie2Sure, I'd love to have you join.

[rocketrobie2]

@TheUnknowable Sweet! I was thinking about using a Brainiac 5 type guy with some tactile TK but after looking over some of the characters offered up I'll probably opt for something else since my idea shares a lot of concepts with other people's concepts.

Might go with a Bizzaro guy or maybe another lantern.