Looking Back - 5 months have passed, what now?

[j8cob]

@ArenaSnow You don't have to be sure. I have a good feeling you aren't sure of many things, so your opinion on things you aren't sure about seems kinda irrelevant to me and the discussion at large.

[ArenaSnow]

@ArenaSnow You don't have to be sure. I have a good feeling you aren't sure of many things, so your opinion on things you aren't sure about seems kinda irrelevant to me and the discussion at large.

@j8cob

In other words, you have no case against why nominating yourself seems pretentious.

Furthermore, you solidify why someone would probably not want to contact you if you were in any moderation position, since your apparent way to carry an argument about becoming a form of staff member is to take the other person and dismiss them because they "aren't sure of many things". That sounds like a professional way for a moderator to conduct themselves.

You've nominated yourself. I nominate against you, as you don't strike me as being any better than any other less desirable participant of the channel spouting out a mix of half-truths (though I don't even see the truthful half in this conversation) and attempts to dismiss the other person with misleading statements or saying they "aren't sure of many things".

[j8cob]

@ArenaSnow You're the one who isn't sure, what makes you think you're qualified to analyze whether or not I get the role? As well, what makes you think I haven't discussed this with Hank in the past in more depth? This was clearly just a reminder and frankly he's the only one I have to prove myself to. Certainly not you, who doesn't even use the Discord at all. I wouldn't be beholden to you even if I was given the chat moderator position. You're trying to vote in another country's election right now, m8.

[ArenaSnow]

@ArenaSnow You're the one who isn't sure, what makes you think you're qualified to analyze whether or not I get the role? As well, what makes you think I haven't discussed this with Hank in the past in more depth? This was clearly just a reminder and frankly he's the only one I have to prove myself to. Certainly not you, who doesn't even use the Discord at all. I wouldn't be beholden to you even if I was given the chat moderator position. You're trying to vote in another country's election right now, m8.

@j8cob

Any moderation role on the site is representative of the guild, even if it's on discord. Hank can do whatever he wants, pretty much, as a co-admin. I'm no more "qualified" to "analyze" your role than you are "qualified" to nominate yourself when that's clearly not even how the guild's promotion system has ever worked.

At the end of the day, my point is simple. Nominating yourself makes you look like an ass. You've only proven the point.

Edit: And if it's clearly "just a reminder", and not open to user input, why did you even post it here instead of sending a PM to Hank on Discord? Hell, why not just post it in the help channel of discord if you're that confident? Don't post about your little regional election on the other end of the country if you don't want comments on it, eh?

[j8cob]

@ArenaSnow If that's your only point it doesn't really matter. lmao

"This man shouldn't be given this position because I don't like him."

Stellar.

[Cyndyr]

If the idea behind your post was that "nobody else wants to do it, so I'm better than nothing" then I'm not sure that the concept of scraping off the bottom of the volunteer barrel for a cesspool (that you participate in)

@ArenaSnow

Hilarious how Odin and I can make thread after thread with civility, politeness, and solid arguments with evidence. Despite this, however, we're still somehow painted as the harbingers of doom while others sink as far as to say that we're "terrorists" or that we "participate in a cesspool".

Give me a break.

[ArenaSnow]

<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>
Hilarious how Odin and I can make thread after thread with civility, politeness, and solid arguments with evidence, yet we're somehow painted as the harbingers of doom while others sink as far as to say that we're "terrorists" or that we "participate in a cesspool". Give me a break.

@Cyndyr

If you were paying attention to the conversation, you would note that the cesspool was the politics channel, and nothing to do with your kneejerk reaction to call "help! He's calling me terrorist!"

Try again.

[Cyndyr]

If you were paying attention to the conversation, you would note that the cesspool was the politics channel, and nothing to do with your kneejerk reaction to call "help! He's calling me terrorist!"

Try again.

@ArenaSnow

I was paying attention, thank you. I have no need for your condescension when it wasn't exactly clarified in the first place. With that said, I do apologize for the confusion. I know that it is no excuse whatsoever, but I just learned that I am apparently wrestling with a fever (thanks college), so perhaps my attention isn't on point at the moment. My point still stands (maybe not directly towards you), however, that there are some parties that are quick to toss our arguments aside simply due to our affiliations and whatnot. It's tiresome when you want to improve something that you care about, but people try to silence you over and over again with comments like "you're the vocal minority", "you're a bunch of trolls", and whatever else.

[ArenaSnow]

<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>
I was paying attention, thank you. I have no need for your condescension when it wasn't exactly clarified in the first place. With that said, I do apologize for the confusion. I know that it is no excuse whatsoever, but I just learned that I am apparently wrestling with a fever (thanks college), so perhaps my attention isn't on point at the moment. My point still stands (maybe not directly towards you), however, that there are some parties that are quick to toss our arguments aside simply due to our affiliations and whatnot. It's tiresome when you want to improve something that you care about, but people try to silence you over and over again with comments like "you're the vocal minority", "you're a bunch of trolls", and whatever else.

@Cyndyr

So... what does that have to do with me, and why should I care?

If that happens, call it out when it happens. As far as I see, that hasn't happened in this thread, so at this point, it just looks like you're ranting. It doesn't really help anything.

The whole circle that these threads tend to take is rather tedious, as it tends not to result in anything.

[Midnight Howl]

If you are all just going to sit in this conversation and take jabs at each other than what is the point of even talking about it. I have seen this conversation pop up multiple times but in the end it always derails to people spewing petty comments at one another out of despite or presumptuous accusations.

The only way this issue is ever going to people properly discussed is if everyone puts aside their pride, what they think they know about it, and past vendettas (be whatever they may). As long as people are coming in here with build up emotions and attacking one another nothing will be gained. If you feel yourself getting worked up about a comment that some random person (who doesn't even truly know you I might add) then step away from the screen and come back when you are collected. Everytime...ever single time this conversation is prefaced with "Don't be hostile, don't be whiny, don't attack each other" but here we are. Personally, I'm past it and if you don't care about my opinion that is fine. I am one person on a site with thousands of people. At the very least learn to treat each other like civil beings or all of this is pointless either way.

I'm past the point of annoyed with people putting each other down (from both sides...why tf are there even sides anymore). Be considerate for Christ's sake and start acting like the adults you are.

And when I say everyone I literally mean everyone...myself included. I've been stupid in this as well, getting caught up in many things that were beside the point. I'm sorry to anyone I hurt during that time or for the person I was, because it wasn't who I really am or want to be. All the same can we lay this all aside and look at Dion's points objectively, listen to responses attentively, and reply respectively. To the mods. To the community.

Rant over. I am sorry and you may sass me for it, that's fine

[Cyndyr]

So... what does that have to do with me, and why should I care?

If that happens, call it out when it happens. As far as I see, that hasn't happened in this thread, so at this point, it just looks like you're ranting. It doesn't really help anything.

The whole circle that these threads tend to take is rather tedious, as it tends not to result in anything.

@ArenaSnow

You shouldn't care. I simply apologized to you and explained my reactions. Carry on as you will.

[Chai]

As a frequent Discord user:

We can all tell Rilla's joking when he calls himself the lazy mod. It is, however, slightly disappointing and annoying when valid points are being brought up for an issue, and the response given is, "I'm too lazy and I like to see you guys argue." Like what happened when a spam issue was brought up in General, and instead of something being 'handled,' Nyt had to go to Ruby to get things cleared up.

This one incident by no means indicates Rilla is a bad mod, but only that the perception of laziness can have a negative impact on the perceived ability and willingness to actually moderate. Even in the Discord, for which site moderators are currently just as responsible for since it's an extension of the Guild.

@ArenaSnow I think it's appropriate to have chat moderators that are familiar with the chat community and have been there for quite some time. There is nothing wrong with thinking you are good at something or fit for a position and stating that. (: There's nothing pretentious about being confident in your ability. IRL, at work or academics, people 'nominate' themselves for positions all the time. It's important to know anyway who is actually willing to do the job. I suppose I don't really understand where your intense opposition is coming from, other than the fact that he's j8cob and you may not like him.

[ArenaSnow]

@ArenaSnow I think it's appropriate to have chat moderators that are familiar with the chat community and have been there for quite some time. There is nothing wrong with thinking you are good at something or fit for a position and stating that. (: There's nothing pretentious about being confident in your ability. IRL, at work or academics, people 'nominate' themselves for positions all the time. It's important to know anyway who is actually willing to do the job. I suppose I don't really understand where your intense opposition is coming from, other than the fact that he's j8cob and you may not like him.

@Chai

I'd disagree that nominating yourself in such a context is really the best thing to do. It's less intense opposition so much as a disagreement with the way he went about it and a pushback at the nature of his response, but you're welcome to believe in my century old feud with my arch-nemesis J8cob as much as you'd like >.>

[Rilla]

Had the same route to Ruby been taken with me, it would have been handled. Once it stays public, it's less a plea for moderation and turns into a shit slinging contest. As I said before, any issue brought to me in PM has been handled, including an appeal for a warning overturn. I could have handled it better, but it wasn't like it was handled fine by all parties involved anyway. Then again, Nyte says I'm not a 'Real' mod, so that's probably why he went to Ruby instead of sending me a message. Or whatever he reason was.

Despite my claims of laziness, people have had little issue coming to me with reports and all on Discord. My PM box here and there are eternally open, and so far aside from me not handling that issue, I don't think there has been any issue with how I handle reports, at all. Unless they are just not brought up in my presence.

[Chai]

@Rilla I didn't intend for what I said to make it seem like I was saying you didn't ever do your job, and I hope you didn't take it like that. My only point was that the label can be detrimental to reputation and image even though you and others know differently.

@ArenaSnow I didn't know if you even had a feud with him, which is why I said, "may not like him." I wouldn't know, and from the the back and forth exchange of posts here, that's what it looks like. But I wasn't going to just assume that, which is why I worded it like I did (:

[Nytem4re]

Had the same route to Ruby been taken with me, it would have been handled. Once it stays public, it's less a plea for moderation and turns into a shit slinging contest. As I said before, any issue brought to me in PM has been handled, including an appeal for a warning overturn. I could have handled it better, but it wasn't like it was handled fine by all parties involved anyway. Then again, Nyte says I'm not a 'Real' mod, so that's probably why he went to Ruby instead of sending me a message. Or whatever he reason was.

Despite my claims of laziness, people have had little issue coming to me with reports and all on Discord. My PM box here and there are eternally open, and so far aside from me not handling that issue, I don't think there has been any issue with how I handle reports, at all. Unless they are just not brought up in my presence.

@Rilla

I only went to ruby because you said you were being too lazy, so I assumed you were actually busy? Not to mention you were telling me to get a real mod or someone else so I assumed you didnt care either?

I mean you literally said I'm not going to deal with it just block him.

Like... I get you're joking and stuff I guess but when you go on a tangent about how lazy you are I'm just going to find another mod who will give me a non joking reply?

And for someone who said he jokes about being lazy you can't take a joke about you being a real mod? Wat?

[j8cob]

Everyone likes me, they just pretend they don't sometimes.

[Rilla]

@Nytem4re Who said I wasn't taking it as a joke? I literally use it to take the piss out of people. Being called a not real mod int enough to trigger me. More likely to make me chuckle than anything.

[Nytem4re]

@Nytem4re Who said I wasn't taking it as a joke? I literally use it to take the piss out of people. Being called a not real mod int enough to trigger me. More likely to make me chuckle than anything.

@Rilla

Sure I guess. But I didnt feel like dming you about anything cuz you seemed to not really care at all, so i just went to a mod who seemed like they would care more. Not because "rilla isnt a real mod"

[Dion]

<Snipped quote by j8cob>

Any moderation role on the site is representative of the guild, even if it's on discord. Hank can do whatever he wants, pretty much, as a co-admin. I'm no more "qualified" to "analyze" your role than you are "qualified" to nominate yourself when that's clearly not even how the guild's promotion system has ever worked.

At the end of the day, my point is simple. Nominating yourself makes you look like an ass. You've only proven the point.

@ArenaSnow

I mean, I get where you are coming from and I agree in part. But, I also think that j8 nominating himself isn't that crazy. He's in the politics channel frequently enough and out of all the participants might just be the one most sane one.

That said it makes no sense to have section specific moderators. It's either everything or bust. Having section specific moderators just means we need people that can only look at certain areas and have no influence elsewhere, so if something goes wrong and they're there, they can't even do anything. You should be a moderator for all sections and maybe just pay attention to the areas that need it.

Had the same route to Ruby been taken with me, it would have been handled. Once it stays public, it's less a plea for moderation and turns into a shit slinging contest. As I said before, any issue brought to me in PM has been handled, including an appeal for a warning overturn. I could have handled it better, but it wasn't like it was handled fine by all parties involved anyway. Then again, Nyte says I'm not a 'Real' mod, so that's probably why he went to Ruby instead of sending me a message. Or whatever he reason was.

Despite my claims of laziness, people have had little issue coming to me with reports and all on Discord. My PM box here and there are eternally open, and so far aside from me not handling that issue, I don't think there has been any issue with how I handle reports, at all. Unless they are just not brought up in my presence.

@Rilla

I don't really take this as a satisfactory response. It wouldn't turn into a shit slinging fest if you were quick with your response, or in fact, were proactive. If someone is spamming, you shouldn't need a report to do anything, you should just man up and tell whatever kid is spamming to shut the fuck up. It's not that hard. So why did you need a report when by Nyt and Chai's statement it was clear you were in the discord at that very moment?

Like Chai said, it's not a sign you're a bad mod. But it's a sign you may have done something else that would have worked better. Nobody is asking you to apologize (even if you did, you can't buy anything with sorry) - we're asking you to look back and see if perhaps you could've done things differently so that things may improve for the future. You're being given feedback, and your response isn't to think about it, but instead to deflect it and give excuses? Why?

I also want to comment on the real mod thing because that's something a lot of people are confused about apparently. A lot of people simply aren't aware you're no longer 'just' an arena mod. Something that could've been fixed with a simple alert from the mod team. There has to be some function that allows admins or moderators to PM all users at once, so why is that not being used? If there is no such function then why isn't there a moderator log in the news section where changes, updates or even just small casual messages can be posted by moderators?

It's something that wouldn't even take much time and that would give so much clarity to a lot of these situations. Something I've said about thrice now in separate threads.