[OOC] The Savage And Subservient (SleepingSilence x KatherinWinter)

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Edited.

[SleepingSilence]

Made this post late at night, when I should be asleep. So hopefully its decent. ;D

[KatherinWinter]

I have been over your post several times in the last couple of days and I still have no idea how to make Liz respond. She has nothing to offer them. She literally owns nothing.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter If you want to answer with silence. Answer with silence. :P

[KatherinWinter]

@SleepingSilence That would be a very short post. The problem is I don't want to give you one paragraph of Liz looking confused but at the moment that is all I got.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Post short if you have to. I'll be away today with friends/busy until late sunday probably.

[SleepingSilence]

I've been feeling sick the past two days, yesterday especially. Hopefully tomorrow I'll feel better and be able to post. (I have a (relatively) sizable one in mind.)

[KatherinWinter]

@SleepingSilence take your time. I hope you feel better.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Doing surprisingly better considering my lack of sleep last night. Thanks. I had a bit more planned out, but I wanted to give you some time to give your response. So I cut myself short.

[SleepingSilence]

I think it's my allergies. I always have them around this time of year. Because I still have a cough. I'll probably post something Monday. Sunday, I'll be spending time with a friend. Just letting you know.

Edit: While my friend was suppose to go home in the morning for work, but it was called of and we hung out the rest of the afternoon. So I had less free time than I thought. And I also had an hour nap, because I've had two basically sleepless nights from this bad cough. Even with medicine. But, not wanting to be a liar, I still managed to get something done. ;D

[KatherinWinter]

I don't know if this will work. Liz being a slave limits her more than her shy quiet nature does. Also do you have an idea for this 'Bladed Beauty’? How is Liz suppose to know who to approach?

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter In this case, Bastian wants you to keep the idea you're enslaved to him as a secret. One option to gain sympathy that may be something she can suggest/tell to Bastian, if she were to say "What if I we're to say, I'm escaping from a beastkind here who has me enslaved. I need refuge." and since this city is clearly divided down race lines to the point of building for war. This could be an effective method to gain entrance and not have anyone question your presence.

And, she can't know who to approach. She's presumed to change her appearance frequently. I wanted to let you have a little more control, and let you roleplay through it. Whether by inferring from my direction, or if you'd be so inclined. Come up with such yourself. (Maybe you somehow recognize somebody you shared a cell with. Who just so happens to be the person in question. I dunno. I don't mind a little impromptu story building from the other side.) I don't want to lead everything, if you wanted to have some direction. You could do so in this case. But the person in question, is very much there. (least how I was going to write it, if you wanted to simply go with the flow of how I'd write the scenario.) And if/when I come there. I'll know them immediately. (how, I won't spoil. Because where's the fun in that? ;P)

[KatherinWinter]

That isn't possible. Liz is a slave. That would be clear. Anyone who was bought in a slave market would be mark either with a collar or with a tattoo. This way everyone knows they are a criminal paying off a debt. If she had owed Bastian a personal debt than she would have more freedom because she wouldn't be marked. But she is a criminal, sort of, and as such would have something to identify here as a slave. I have mentioned this in Liz's post more than once.

I see. So Liz has to approach everyone trying to figure out who things Bladed Beauty is. That will attract alot of attention especially since no one is likely to admit to having a code name. No we need a way to identify this person.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I'm aware you said she was a slave and that she apparently had a collar on her.

I guess my question that follows...Can it be removed? Whether easily like a normal collar, or if the collar is magical with magic, and is it legal to do so? Does the collar do anything beside a visable cue to display that she's a slave?

I mean, this world has established slave trading. So they at least has to be a market for slaves, reasonably some people would try to steal other slaves. Or some may be against such and provide shelter. Just assuming. Why wouldn't a human likely illegal gambling ring accept a slave entering the premises? Wouldn't they thrive on people desperate for money and in debt?

Also, this women accepted clients that are criminals and does stuff that's clearly shady. So would she assume a random slave coming to find her, knowing how desperate most are for freedom. Strange to be seeking her out? (Maybe since you'd figure they'd not have money, they wouldn't be interested? But there's always more to pay, than just coins...) Just curious on what you want to go on here. And if she has a tattoo, that incriminates her as a slave, wouldn't that be the first person used to seek to fix that problem? Someone that can alter appearances.

Also, we do have a way. Just neither character would realistically know about it, but I have one already in mind. Player knowledge, not character knowledge to be specific.

[KatherinWinter]

The problem is that you and i are coming at this at two different angles. We dont see this world the same way. Since most slaves are criminals there isnt as much protest as their would be otherwise. This way people arent paying taxes for a prison. Criminals pay their debt off by servingothers. The collar depends on the crime that the person is accused of committing. Lesser crimes, like theft would get a collar that could be removed once the person served their time. All crimes are magically bonded to person. It can only be taken off by the head prison mage. So removing would be impossible. Hiding it would be had since the point of the collar is to identify her as a slave. Liz collarwould be thick and pretty obvious since she's was convicted of murder. When I play a slave I have a legitimate reason for them to be bound in such a way and a way for them to be free once the quest is done but not before than.

Even work the limitations of her being a slave the task of finding this bladed beauty is impossible. She is being sent into a building full of people. This building can have anywhere from 5 to 100 people in it. All of them the possible beauty. There is no way for Liz to identify who she is looking for and asking each person if they are the beauty isn't going to accomplish anything. Without a way of identifying the bladed beauty this task is pointless.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Well maybe. But I think it's just that there's a misunderstanding of player knowledge vs character knowledge and how stories unfold often against the odds. People don't call the cops in horror movies, because it's interesting. People will face obvious danger and near impossible odds, for the same deal.

Okay, so the collars are magical. And different looking based on crime committed. Got it. When Bastian bought her though, what did he do? Does he not own her? Is this a temporary thing? You think that would be brought up when purchasing right? Does she have an amount of debt needed to pay off before allowing to no longer be a slave? If so, Bastian couldn't realistically promise to free her. (unless he had a lot of money. And although he does, while unaware of it, for reasons I haven't gone into yet.) Shouldn't he reasonably be allowed to take the collar off? Even if he needs to get it officially done (or illegally done.) By some powerful mage...

But, a slave could still benefit from an appearance change. Changing their face and details, yes you'd still be labeled a murder. But could the owner still recognize her? Could someone be an abusive terrible slave owner, have one of their bought slaves escape find this person. Who themselves uses magic, to alter physical appearance. Alter their face and go under a new owner, who promises to pay and treat them better. Getting more loyality and harder work in the process? And people can still pay in ways that don't need currency.

And on the seemingly impossible task of tracking down the bladed beauty. Again, you wouldn't need to ask, every single person. You'd just need to ask the right questions and say the right things. Who knows, maybe you'd get lucky and they'd come to you in a dramatic irony/twist of fate. If you don't want Elizabeth to find her, because you don't think she'd reasonably could do so. Even though he hopes that she can. You can still go there...you wanted to help find the kids. He's desperate and you guys have hours to kill. So unless she's a character who'd give up such an important task. I'd assume it would be given the most effort.

So okay, since you seem to require clarification. I'll give you the reason, Bastian would know. (Just not yet. But would instantly upon meeting her.) She is currently wearing his daughter jewelry, which he hand crafted himself and reeks of her distinct scent which can't be smelled by humans. She was given this as payment, for the kidnappers in question and she also knows their names and even their location. Because she keeps tracks of clients, that she suspects will do more crimes. For safety purposes. But...once Bastian sees this...He's not going to get all the information, because...well...anger will happen.

My intention was, if he went in that area. People -would- fight him and if he sees his daughters items on someone else. His curse feeding on his impulsivity and anger. He will not let them live...

Actually to further, just explain my intention and ideas. She ends up crossing paths with you, she finds you, because she knows everyone in this town and sympathizes with your plight, because she was once a slave pursued by someone forever until she learned to hide away from them. And I wanted her to seem at least like an empathetic gray character. I wanted to come up with the details later, but obviously planned on cutting her out of the story, in quite a literal fashion. <.< But it also was going to be the first time he has ever had concrete objectives. (while the negative, being that his curse is actively getting worse.)

[KatherinWinter]

Bastian did nothing but gain ownership of her. Alot would have been explained if Bastian hadnt taken off the minute ge had her. There was no time to explain what I had in mind so I've tried to put some of the information in my posts. No Liz's collar isnt a temporary thing. No Liz doesnt have a debt that can be paid off. She told him when he offered her freedom in exchange for her help that he was making a promise that he might not be able to keep but she was willing to try to help him despite not seeing how she could. Removing the collar isnt something any mage can do. It powerful magic and I doubt Bastian can afford to pay one to do it. No one can remove the collars but the head mage. Only he kniws the spell. This is to keep criminals in check so that they cant just pay to have it removed. Yes I suppose it would be possible for a slave to change their appearance if the found a way to pay to have it done but it would be pointless unless they got the collar off. Changing owners is easy. I am sure that slaves are stole all the time. Their criminals which means they have skills most people dont. Those skills can be useful. I dont see what that matters unless someone plans to try to steal Liz.

I get that Liz only has to ask the right person the right questions. What you dont understand is that Liz is a sheltered naive girl who has no clue what questions to ask. So all i can have her do is walk into this building and start asking everyone if they are the bladed beauty. Which would be stupid. But if thats what you want Liz to do than thats what she will do. But logically that will only draw more attention to the blade beauty and Liz. I've wrote and read about people like who I imagine this woman to be. Im trying to find a logical way for a clueless young woman to find someone who doesnt want to be found.

I dont understand this curse. But I can see it is going to cause problems. I am fine with drama as long as it helps the characters grow. I am undecided if thus curse does that yet. Once again you seem to have a very specific idea of what is going to happen. I am trying to follow your lead but honestly I dont think I am doing that well.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter I mean if you had to, I felt as if you could have given me all that detail in OOC earlier. Or have an outside conversation, with NPC's. But it's okay, and known now. It's not like it's unprecedented. He makes impulsive decisions, and clearly it isn't going well for him...

And like I said, if slaves are considered useful. She could go in that place, and claim "I want a new owner, he's the worst to me, I seek the one that changes appearance to hide from the one I have. Please, change my appearance." if she couldn't reasonably think of that as a character. And the irony of Bastian assuming she's special, when she actually apparently has no particular talent. Balances perfectly fine with his overpowered-ish character. I don't have a problem at all with that narrative. You're doing perfectly fine, I just hope if there's any suggestion you have that you give it. I want this to be fun for both of us.

And well he's already changing as a character, though slowly. He is unself critical, that's a hard trait to have with change. And possibly soon, change that's not for the better. But I do have something in mind plot wise and even possibly romantically related, with the curse. If it goes down that road.

If you think she's so timid/fearful that she wouldn't do this without Bastian near her. She did just see a dead body and a guy being curbstomped. You can talk to Bastian and build character and their relationship that way. There's options. You don't have to follow my characters actions, or even the plot lined out, if you have a better idea. (Like if you wouldn't see how you could find the bladed beauty inside there, for your character and don't want that option to happen without the character getting more concrete information...have two people start having a conversation out of a window near the buildings of the alley. Lucky and odds broken enough for people to give description of the bladed beauty. Talking about how hot she was, mention her hair color and that she did great work on his cousin.) Whatever it is, if you think of something. It's a story were both crafting. It isn't something that needs to be perfect. Just go for it, and I'll likely be able to mesh with it just fine.

[KatherinWinter]

No I have tried but in my own ideas. None of them have worked. Yes I could have given you the information in ooc. But I saw no point. You were set on ignoring in IC and it had no impact on the plot. Now it dies. So I will have to reward Liz and her past to make her being a slave possible in another way. One that gives her more freedom. Liz has skills. More than she thinks she does but they don't matter and arent likely to come into play in anyway. Liz is a horrible liar. Even if she did walking up to people admitting that she is a slave looking to escape her owner is the stupidest thing she could do. That would be like a criminal announcing they were going to commit a crime before they do. I was hoping for something less obvious. Characters like this bladed beauty have people after them they are hard to find. They would admit it in a room full of people who might be interested in the bounty on their heads. As much as I would like to contribute none of my attempts have worked out and honestly I am not going to try until I have a better idea of the path you want to follow. Yes I can see Bastian getting worse that makes me hesitant. Liz can go into the building and start asking questions but logically if I were the bladed beauty, and I do have a character that could use that name, I would not admit to who I was to anyone. Especially someone as meek and naive as Liz.

[SleepingSilence]

@KatherinWinter Okay now. Can you be more specific and show me where you had given ideas in IC and how they didn't work? Accusing me of ignoring something, is a strong one without giving me actual examples...

I'd hope, after doing this with me for so long. You'd be able to communicate this straight away, if you think there's a detail you mentioned that I didn't seem to pay heed to.

I didn't ignore the current information, you never told me it. The collar thing was not mentioned when he first saw her, that I remember, which is where he probably should have seen it. But I was aware, that a collar existed...

If you're talking about the character you introduced. I didn't ignore him at all, we had a character interaction. Just because it didn't go smoothly, doesn't mean in OOC that I didn't want that character to exist...and he didn't die. He can always come back. <.<

So was there anything else?

---

And the path I want, is to carve our own path...I guess we'll have to deal with this OOC, before we go into IC.

Because, you're doubting yourself that you aren't contributing enough. But also somehow seem to think I'm stopping you from doing so...So, I'm really keen on figuring out how this is a problem. So it can be fixed...