I believe any merit in this point-by-point tangent is drawing to a close, as I've hopefully gotten through my initial point with this post. That said, if there's anything a direct reply is desired to beyond here, I'm obliged to give it as requested.
Oh I've made tons of effort, but you'll understand that asking people on various forums and comments section of articles doesn't tend to produce much in the way of enlightenment other than colorful ways of calling me a shill or a variety of insults sprinkled with mentions of shopping cart as some kind of catch-all. There's a reason the ones shouting make the whole thing look bad.
And those individuals, like the extremes in any hot topic, are buffoons who have no legitimate desire to enter discussion with any willingness to look beyond their underdeveloped sponge of an opinion provided by someone else with no critical thinking of their own. They freely deserve the derision given. Unfortunately, the reverse happens when everyone on their side is lumped in the same camp out of the blue in a general gaming discussion thread, which prompted my entry - not, I will admit, a very bright entry, but a tired response from seeing the same tried bullshit from the same sort of person on each side of the fence, which inevitably results me in striking any post I perceive to fit into that all-too-common niche.
Well I mean you could try and not just gloss over the large amount of hypocritical views people have when they bring up Chinese companies as a reason enough to avoid using it.
I mean, the scale of Tencent's influence in the company, Epic's poor privacy handling record, their sheer scope in general and their uncanny ability to fling resources at a Google scale I think gives people the right to be weary. I think they're fully in their rights to refuse a platform on suspicion of its foundations, just as I respect those who feel the same about Google, despite me being able to say 'well, honestly, it doesn't matter' and use it anyways despite knowing those reasons frontwards and backwards and even agreeing with them.
You said it yourself: shoddy developer behavior. Or publisher.
Forgive me for the extreme I'm about to stretch here, but drug addicts are certainly at fault for taking drugs. Cheap amusement today, and damn people's impressions. The dealer is nonetheless willing to provide them and watch as the addict makes a complete shit of himself before those who know him. Can it be recovered from? Sure. Was just the dealer at fault? Nah. But in this case, I'm not going to give Epic a free pass just because developers are scummy. I'm displeased with the fact Epic is perfectly fine with creating the scenario in the first place.
Mechwarrior 5 was an interesting case, I'd take a look at it. As a game attaching itself to one of the few series I actually give a shit about in gaming, I found myself extremely disappointed both with Epic, and especially with the developer, who in that case I certainly give a far stronger share of the blame for the ensuing bullshit than Epic themselves. That doesn't mean I'm going to like exclusivity, their offerings in general, or their platform any more. But unless we have a new tangent to go on with this or I've somehow struck a cord of agreement, I don't think there's a point of continuing along this track, as I expect we're just going to end up in circles and with incompatible priorities.
This has been addressed by Vogel and Sweeney.
Which makes it no less brutish and sloppy.
You know what also doesn't have a shopping cart? The Nintendo Switch Eshop. It doesn't even remove things from your wishlist once you buy them either.
I neither use nor care for consoles, and thus, all this means to me is that Nintendo has a poorly designed shop.
What are the numbers on that? Because every article about it that I've read uses the vague phrase 'some users' or 'many users' while all of them only ever use Pat's tweet as a solitary source.
I digress and concede as I am unable to provide anything more than vague user claims and those very articles.
Oh yeah, because Steam user reviews are so helpful and those are what people use when determining what game to buy.
In fact, they are, let me tell you why.
Steam reviews are a fickle beast you need to know in order to get the best of them. Like youtube reviews and any other kind of review, the majority is redundant/pointless, and the bias resulting from anything high profile is extreme. The value comes from
- The majority, based on reviews lacking a visible bias to any particular big name issue (ie, a truly shit game is going to have reviews clearly articulating that over some political dribble like the Rome 2 review bombs)
- The minority that puts effort into doing it right, not hard to find in most games
- Review history in the event review bombs apply
With a few other more abstract rules I can get quite a bit out of user reviews. When something is truly problematic or just plain shit, I'll know. When it's really good, I'll know. When I want anything in between and the waters are muddled, I'll use statistics and the voices of reason.
Steam gives me data to process. Epic gives me none at all.
Some of those I agree with, some I give the hand wank motion towards as being unnecessary fluff that doesn't make a storefront better or worse.
In many of those cases I couldn't give a shit. However, other users do, and not just scarce individuals. Thus, I consider them notable not because I have any sort of use for them, but because there are others who do.
How, exactly, is Epic forcing games on its platform and nowhere else? I can buy more games on Steam than I can on EGS, and several games I can buy on EGS I can also buy on Steam. It's no surprise that the games that get the big 'controversy' are big name releases. The number of true exclusives on EGS is quite low.
This seems very off point from the quote associated with it, particularly since nothing I just quoted is a claim being made on my part.
So your problem is a company with money offering incentives for other companies to make their money in a more upfront way? It almost sounds like the problem is capitalism doing its thing. Despite what people might think, at the end of the day developers and publishers largely care about profits before they care about pleasing the customer. Yes, some developers have a good track record and as such have that trust, but all it takes is one fuck up, slight or otherwise, and that trust is lost in a snap. I guess now the way to lose trust isn't to put micro transactions or have unreasonably crunch or shitty employee treatment but to follow the money and release a game on a store for a year first. Video games are expensive, and while I can fault publishers for going with the path of least resistance I'm not going to slag on Epic for offering it in the first place.
Companies are not your friends.
Companies are never friends, that is not their function. A company can garner goodwill by being a better sport for the users and offering a good platform that convinces developers and users to flock to it because it's good, not because it purely bribes developers to release there and nowhere else when in many cases it's clear they would have otherwise released everywhere. Is it selfish for me to be irritated by that? Selfish, I am. There's other assertions in there I don't intend to grace with a reply, and they're quite prevalent in this discussion. It is them that result in this being a thing,
What happened to not being snippy.
A spambot I may be, but I am a spambot encoded with the spectrum of human emotion and flaws, and while I think we've been mostly civilized, I must admit there are some influencing aspects that I approach a number of lines in your posts with less than complete trust in their motives. Occasionally I'm just being jumpy. Thus is the flaw.
I only ever intended to buy one game on there and I will do so next month. And I'll probably buy it again on Steam anyway. I don't blame Epic for the decisions of the developers/publishers.
There we are at the impasse. Forgive the extremes of my comparison, but I find the one who drove a criminal to a crime to be liable as well as, of course, the criminal who commits it. I guess it's obligatory to say that the dynamics are being used here, not the examples being paired together as reality.
The two situations aren't exclusive.
Obviously. A shame that, from my perspective, Epic is treating them as though they are.
I'd say Epic handing out games for free (well other than the eternal price of your soul for having EGS on your machine I guess) is at least something that should be taken as a positive; whether or not it outweighs the negatives is up for individual dispute.
I do not believe it outweighs the negatives, even as I fully acknowledge it as a positive. I was almost tempted before I started looking into the games and deciding I just didn't care for the offerings. But that is entirely personal and does not deduct from the positive.
Or rather, Steam is seen as being for the customer while Epic Games Store is seen as being for the corporation.
It should never be mistaken that Valve is any way a benevolent entity that isn't prone to entirely business decisions. However, I would say their ability to hang back and let 'you do you' leaves a markedly better tastes in my mouth than what I have seen of Epic's approach, one that, while precedented on consoles, is not precedented nor desired on PC.
I'm sure people do have viable reasons, as you've demonstrated. But I'm still allowed to punch down at the people who review bomb and fling shit at the walls as soon as someone mentions the words 'Epic Games Store' while refusing to air their grievances or otherwise reduce it down to the simple, a la "no shopping cart omegalul" .
And so you are, carry on, and enjoy my full support in that. However, the impression I got upon the beginning of this conversation was a universally derisive approach towards
everyone with a bone to pick on Epic, and that's not something that sat well with me, prompting my reply and this stream of events. Given the right conditions, I would be the 'epic fanboy', not because I think epic is any good whatsoever, but because in a given situation the developer has been fully up front on their motivations (the Shenmue case had the developers preaching the quality of EGS in a post that I read, and that really irritated me given how full of shit it was) and did it all well before any perceived release and making any sort of integration with other platforms that would lead customers to reasonably expect to get the game on that platform (the fact Shenmue had a steam page means it failed this condition of mine miserably). I'm sure there are many games over on EGS that fit those conditions well. Well, power to them. More power to the ones who simply approach it as another platform alongside the rest.
For the rest of the nitty grit, I think Kuro is doing decently. Me, I think I've babbled on about as much as I can babble on the matter.
