[OOC] Fate/Crimson Dusk

[The Irish Tree]

@vancexentan

Any thoughts on Skofnung?

[vancexentan]

@The Irish TreeI'm not sure if there's a point of caster having it. Its not a part of their legend the only reason is that they killed the original owner. Besides not being a part of their own legend swords are synonymous with the saber class, possibly Rider/Berserker. Caster doesn't usually spawn in with a physical weapon based noble phantasm. So I'm going to say no on basis of it not really meshing well with the character's legend, and class. It doesn't seem to have a good reason for being there other than just because.

[The Irish Tree]

@The Irish TreeI'm not sure if there's a point of caster having it. Its not a part of their legend the only reason is that they killed the original owner. Besides not being a part of their own legend swords are synonymous with the saber class, possibly Rider/Berserker. Caster doesn't usually spawn in with a physical weapon based noble phantasm. So I'm going to say no on basis of it not really meshing well with the character's legend, and class. It doesn't seem to have a good reason for being there other than just because.

@vancexentan

Fair enough. I'll keep caster as-is then.

[Sosuke]

Literally just joined for Fate RPs O....k. I'm not sure how an actual profile and character sheet of that detail is 'trolling'. Especially since I took the time expand upon the theory that was question. Its not like I can't make another character if need be... Perhaps this wasn't a 7/10 power level but what can you do on short notice.

Though if its a recurring issue I suppose I can't do much about it even it is quite disheartening @vancexentan

[vancexentan]

@SosukeThis isn't about your character the other roleplayers, who I shall not name out of curtsy if they want to name themselves they can, its about other people who want to fuck with me/this roleplay. I'm not calling you out for being a troll for all I know you're brand new to this site, and just are getting a boot for being 'new'. However others feel that you, or other new accounts could just be puppet accounts meant to screw with continuity/piss on other roleplayers.

Basically: Its not about you specifically its about who you/other new accounts could be, who I couldn't start to point fingers at, and thus people don't want to take the risk. Its a gm choice both to placate my fellow roleplayers, and to make sure the rp isn't getting possibly sabotaged. I've already apologized once but I will do so again as I have no evidence to support their requests, and I am indeed judging you off merit of what could be.

[Sosuke]

Well I'm glad the 'collective' pegs me as a troll. Thanks~ Makes me feel awesome. -_-

So I get the boot just because of the the time I joined and happened to find interesting. Got it. I'm not mad, and Understand the reasoning, but you must expect some level of bitterness at being pegged as a 'troll' as the justification for denial.

Also if you're the GM you need to make YOUR decision instead of conforming to the views of others.... If this is you're RP you need to own the choices instead of being pressured to make a verdict. If you're short on people... Use fresh blood. If you want it to be a close knit thing, don't have the "Apply" status... You can't have it both ways or discrimination against a player just because they just joined and 'might' be a bad apple.

@vancexentan

[vancexentan]

alright well moving on if anyone finds my last post vague I'll try to lengthen it, or correct whatever. However you can also just ask questions in character as Orson directed. We currently in character don't know much about the situation because well The Grey family used some sort of tactics set to quickly kill off the scouts. So Orson will give you what he can but he doesn't know much but that is hardly his fault.

[ManyThings]

@vancexentan Okay, here's something.

Lancer

Class Name: Lancer
Nicknames: Matematico Primario
Alignment: Neutral Good
Servant of:
Weapons: His Noble Phantasms. His thoughts.
Wish: For mankind to open their minds to new information..? As he learns more, his desire changes.

Skills

Magic Resistance D (EX): The ability of the three knight classes to cancel unfriendly magecraft targeting Lancer. Normally, he can only negate single-action spells, but as he gains a better and better understanding of a school of magecraft, he slowly moves towards the level of being able to ignore it entirely.

Natural Born Genius A++: A Skill stemming from one's unparalleled natural knowledge. Allows the use of most Skills, excluding those inherent to the body (such as Divinity) or ones unique to particular heroes, at proficiency of C~B Rank. Since Lancer made advancements in so many different fields, he has access to a wide range of abilities, but those related to the supernatural may not be accessed.

Skill List

Item Construction (mundane but advanced Inventions)
Disengage
Human Anatomy Understanding
Incitement
Knight Tactics
Marksmanship
Martial Arts (Pankration, Chinese, Swordsmanship, etc.)
Military Tactics
Modern Sciences (a wide variety of things unlikely to be useful in a Grail War)
Riding
Self-Suggestion
Single-Mindedness
Torture Techniques

Innovation of Understanding A: A ability granted from a strong association with the dispelling of myths and the expansion of knowledge to the heavens, even if it is not wholly deserved. All sorts of things can be analyzed. An understanding of the mystical can be used to give good advice to the users of abilities regarding their technical elements. Against opponents of high mystery or divinity, combat power is increased.

Pioneer of the Stars EX: A very literally deserved skill based on his reputation in the eyes of humanity, which stretches beyond his actual achievements. All difficult voyages and challenges are made achievable, even if it is only a transition from a 0% chance to a 1% chance.

Orbit B: An unusual ability. Lancer can quickly revolve his position around a targeted solid object or person at extreme speeds far surpassing his natural movement.

Base Parameters
Strength: D
Endurance: D
Agility: C
Magical Power: C
Good luck: A
Noble Phantasm: A+

Noble Phantasms

Name: Antico Cannocchiale
Rank: C
Type: Anti-Unit
Range: 1~3/infinite
Description: Lancer's very own telescope. It is a tool meant for observation, with its length and significance only barely qualifying him as a Lancer. At the same time, his class in turn makes it into a viable melee weapon, with its "magnification" ability acting as a plus modifier to Lancer's strength in regards to attacks made with it and allowing it to clash with heroes' blades without even degrading in viewing ability. Of course, it is also top-notch as a telescope that can be used to see clearly in any conditions and reveal all sorts of secrets. An important tool for Lancer's observation of battles and abilities that brings out the best of his analysis, and counters attempts to hide from his sight from sources C rank or lower.

Name: Profondo Spazio Re
Rank: A+
Type: Varies
Range: 0~100
Description: The absolute culmination of Lancer's status in the eyes of humanity, going far beyond what he achieved in life. Wisdom regarding the location and positioning of celestial objects taken to its extreme. Miniature existences of such objects as perceived by mankind can be temporarily conjured for battle. Things like "shooting stars," "moons," and "planets" may appear and be launched on the battlefield, obviously being extreme miniatures of the real things due to ancient humanity's lack of a sense of scale when looking skyward, so stars are just motes of light while a planet would be the size of a large building. In other words, these are the variations appearing in myth and folklore rather than the genuine article, something that annoys Lancer to no end.

With a true name release, Lancer's ultimate anti-fortress attack in the form of a "sun" can be materialized.

True Name

Galileo Galilei.

Although he is somewhat young, his legend is strengthened thanks to associations with the mysteries of the heavens that have caught humanity's wonder for all of its existence.

[vancexentan]

Natural Born Genius A++ is basically imperial privilege you'll have to list which specific skills he can use. This is for the sake of balancing the character stealing things like mind's eye, and other techniques is a bit of a long shot.

Innovation of Understanding A seems more like he'd just be able to find out names, or what specific abilities are instead of directly downgrading the skill, or weapon itself. How does it even work when put against legendary weapons like Lancelot's Arondight for example which is a weapon that is divinely made.

Most importantly how does Galileo meet the requirements for the lancer class? I used the word "spear". and "Lance" as search words and didn't find a single thing about polearms in his entire wiki.

[Reflection]

Well just saying, but Tesla doesn't have practice with a bow and arrow, but he qualifies for Archer. It's just one of those weird things about class containers.

[ManyThings]

He's a Lancer because of the telescope! It's sort of odd, but it's magnification ability means it's valid in melee. If necessary I can switch him to a Berserker because he was considered a madman by some at the time. Could be interesting.

Innovation of Understanding is more like... "Ah yes the energy is used like this. I see, it's simple thermodynamics!"

...Sorry, I am hardly a man of actual science. But remember that mystery equals power for Servants and magecraft in general. He couldn't find out true names, or learn what the skill can do without seeing it in action, but as he observes how the ability works more and more he basically deconstructs it down to a science. When magecraft becomes understood by humanity, it weakens greatly. I figured you wouldn't want it to be permanent based on how you reacted to that NP-cutting sword earlier, so I had it mostly stick to fights against Lancer himself with some residual weakening afterwards. Consider that mundane weapons can't really affect Servants and you'll probably get why turning mystery into science would be useful. Going that far would likely require a long fight with Lancer personally involved, though, and he can't really make an NP release ineffective unless he sees it used 2 or 3 times first.

Galileo's Natural Genius is mostly sticking to the mundane. Martial arts, military tactics, sewing, etc., as well as various fields of science. He likely couldn't get Mind's Eye but he could probably get swordsmanship or what have you. If you need a real list, I will make it and check with you if everything else about him is accepted.

[vancexentan]

@ManyThings

Alright well while its a real big stretch I'd like to get a move on so I'll let it through this once. After all like Reflection said Tesla is Archer because F/go is stupid sometimes.

Innovation of understanding can only work on things that are non-magical in nature. Sound fair? So things like low level presence concealment, and swordsmanship (skill) are effective sound fair?

A list of skills is needed I would have asked Reflection for the same if he didn't place it in Imperial Privilege. Its simply for the sake of having a reference list and to make sure it doesn't get to crazy.

[ManyThings]

It's true that it's a stretch, but he and Tesla both have justification in how mankind sees them. Since they're credited for big things (space and lightning) they have access to them.

That seems like a misunderstanding of Innovation, though. Sword skill would mostly be fine unless it was something like Kojiro's strike. Tearing down the mystery of magical things is the exact point of this ability. Presence Concealment would be hard to affect because you can't watch a person do it unless their PC rank is less than the telescope's.

[vancexentan]

And that's where it falls apart. Medea for example is a magister from ancient times, and enemy caster is exactly like that. Becoming a hero allows people to break physical laws, and or make reality not matter. Its not a matter of it being a fireball. Its a fireball because it was suddenly, and unexpectedly pulled out of the air by way of non combustion, usually, and them just flinging it at them. It would require me to make up explanations of why things work when I don't have those answers because anime/comic book logic.

[ManyThings]

I see what you mean. It's not like I would ask you how it actually works or have Lancer talk about it so much as it is a conceptual thing.

Alternatively I could spin it as more of a theory disproving thing based on the destruction of geocentrism. Like "What you're doing doesn't make any sense physically speaking!"

Either way it's important to remember the amount of effort that is required to pull it off. He has to get into a fight or watch one happen, then go home and think about what he saw, then later if the same enemy shows up he can put a few rank-downs on the ability in question.

[vancexentan]

Yes but that also works on physical weapons it doesn't specify stuff like that, and it just ends up making the other enemy servants weaker with every other engagement lancer is present in. And since we're the attackers we can possibly abuse that. Send in Lancelot, Archer covers him, Lancer uses his skill on enemy Lancer his magical ancient lance suddenly becomes less effective, sorry Diarmuid your already unflashy weapon now has more difficult time cutting through armor. Also Caster your book of deep, and bizarre magic can now only conjure two monsters instead of six.

Its effects are too potent, and too general to be allowed in my eyes.

[ManyThings]

What if it worked only on magecraft and more specifically mystery-relient abilities? As an example, magecraft related to the human body has gotten weaker thanks to progress in the medical sciences. It would be like a localized version of that. Tesla relies on the fact that mankind thinks lightning is this gift from the gods so he could use it on things like that too.

[Ryougu]

@ManyThings@vancexentan
I must admit I feel kind of weird about Galileo being a lancer, I can actually see Tesla being an archer, because he shoots lightning. (shh, that's totally an accurate description.) This is to quite a few people the first thing to associated with him, too. Admittedly it's a little weak, but it's an explanation at the very least.

Tesla shoots LIGHTNING

Regardless of what may or may not be in F/GO, give this man a portable tesla cannon and he's a valid archer.

I could see galileo being closest to being a caster, because he may not be magical, but he was a very smart man who was known for designing and or inventing some crazy and amazing things. So with an ability to realize his blueprints and put them into existence using his noble phantasm would be interesting to me. However caster is already taken.

As a stretch with the telescope I could also see him being an archer, but again, already taken. Then there's the thing of making him a berserker, but he'd very much rely on his mind, so the mad enhancement would really make him weaker, instead of stronger.

So, it's not at all my authority to say this, but I'd rather not see Galileo as lancer. Using F/GO is silly isn't a justification for us to be nonsensical, so if it's all the same to you, as a fellow player I'd recommend actually having someone with a spear or lance to be lancer. I'm quite sure there's some smart lancers too, if you want to play a smart character. Instead if you're going for an interesting and uncommon character instead of specifically a smart one, you could do something like Berserker Tarzan or something along those lines.

[ManyThings]

If you feel that strongly, I'll think on it.

I like the "owner of a long object" Lancers though.

[The Red Seelie]

Sorry I'm late Vance! Is there still a slot for me?

@vancexentan