Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Green
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Could I get an opinion on this guy and where he's at tier wise according to the current system, and how he can scale accordingly? I plan on bringing in a grown-up version of him.

This is a copy+paste of his Nexus tournament CS;
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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If you do that, you might as well take high tiers out of this entirely.

Because the power difference is impossible to work with, effectively making anything lower tiered completely pointless.

Unless we then implement a rule which makes no sense, banning high tiers from interacting with anything less than like, three intermediate tiers.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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I thought that was already a thing, as Skallagrim didn't want Low tiered Keezi paired up with Intermediate tiered Kholodny. Because it would have been impossible to find fights to make sense.

Although that was kind of thrown out the window when LeeRoy and Maxwell wound up in the same place.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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MelonHead said
Frankly this whole 'being dedicated' to just strength thing seems like ballshit to me, are you saying you're not going to have superhuman endurance and constitution to go with it? Yeah, right.

"Pure strength" characters would be ones like Hulk, the Thing, or Collosus. Increased durability and endurance is usually a given. What I consider to be a pure strength character is one whose only ranged option is physically throwing stuff at the opponent, whose only method of travel is using their muscles to propel themselves, and whose only defense is the toughness of their skin (or armor) and melee weapons. They can't shoot energy, absorb energy, fly, cast a vast variety of magical spells, create forcefields, or design super-advanced tech (unless those are the methods whereby they gain their strength).
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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LeeRoy said
I thought that was already a thing, as Skallagrim didn't want Low tiered Keezi paired up with Intermediate tiered Kholodny. Because it would have been impossible to find fights to make sense.Although that was kind of thrown out the window when LeeRoy and Maxwell wound up in the same place.


It's supposed to be unbalanced, but what we're talking about here is essentially making high tiers significantly stronger than the lower tiers we're working with.

Personally, insane higher tiers break everything in a multiverse setting so anything which makes higher tiers even stronger is a terrible idea in my opinion.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by GreivousKhan
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Green said
Could I get an opinion on this guy and where he's at tier wise according to the current system, and how he can scale accordingly? I plan on bringing in a grown-up version of him.


Looks like an intermediate to me, I assume the Hellzooka's ammunition at base is around the same destructive power of a normal RPG.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Green
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GreivousKhan said
Looks like an intermediate to me, I assume the Hellzooka's ammunition at base is around the same destructive power of a normal RPG.


Yupp.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Well, earlier when this topic was brought up I mentioned the idea of buffing all the other characters to compensate for the increase of strength in the high tier characters.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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LeeRoy said
Well, earlier when this topic was brought up I mentioned the idea of buffing all the other characters to compensate for the increase of strength in the high tier characters.


That would be counter-intuitive, increasing the strength of everyone is just pointlessly flashy at that point.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Everything about Arena RPs is about flashy-ness, yo. So increasing the flashy-ness isn't really unreasonable.

But I'm all for the dropping of high tiers as well, I'm totally fine with whatever direction this goes.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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If that ban is a permanent one, I'm going to flip.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Green
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On the topic of increasing strength output at higher tiers;

It's worth noting that we're only talking about increasing physical strength here. As it is, physical strength is vastly inferior to any magical ability a high-tiered character can pop up with. Speed, destructive ranged prowess and such, will, and should, be left alone.

It's not about increasing the power, but making sure that when A has a passive shield or armor that can withstand a punch from someone able to lift 100 tons, B can still punch through it. Take my ridiculously large and impractical mecha as an example; there's not a single character that can punch through that hull with his fists. Or even alter the movement of the mecha at the slightest.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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We could always just subtract a zero for each lower tier.

And it's not about making high-tiers even higher as much as it is about making specialized abilities universally better than non-specialized ones. As it is, only specialized magical or technological abilities have that option. You can't make a competitive high-tier based on strength because any other high-use can use magic/tech/powers to equal their strength, AND do half a dozen other things besides.

EDIT: What Green said.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by GreivousKhan
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As it stands, the gap between intermediate and high is already quite large. Honesty I don't see how many of the current intermediate could fight high, to the point they may as well be separated entirely.

So I'd agree with melon in that buffing high tier even more would be unwise.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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INB4 it comes up: We know that Lifting Strength is not directly proportional to punching force, it's just a benchmark to note approximately how strong they are.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by GreivousKhan
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Green said
On the topic of increasing strength output at higher tiers;It's worth noting that we're only talking about increasing physical strength here. As it is, physical strength is vastly inferior to any magical ability a high-tiered character can pop up with. Speed, destructive ranged prowess and such, will, and should, be left alone. It's not about increasing the power, but making sure that when A has a passive shield or armor that can withstand a punch from someone able to lift 100 tons, B can still punch through it. Take my ridiculously large and impractical mecha as an example; there's not a single character that can punch through that hull with his fists.


I'd argue nothing short of hulk or superman could punch through that mech, and their strength is officially incalculable.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Green
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GreivousKhan said
I'd argue nothing short of hulk or superman could punch through that mech, and their strength is officially incalculable.


But Erde could seriously mess it up with his abilities.

See where I'm going?

Alternatively, I'll just scale the defensive properties of the mecha down. That's a solution too. But then it's a walking glass tower, so no more using it in combat :)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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ASTA, there's no way it's permanent. It's probably just like, a week or a few days long.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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Green said
But Erde could punch through it with his abilities. See where I'm going?


Yes, so people who take the limitation of being gigantic or specifically strength based should be able to lift more, and some very other specific circumstances.

But not insane amounts, like your character should be able to lift its body weight, regardless (because this scales with other limitations) and if you happen to be Superman, then you can have maybe 250tonnes of lifting potential.

Anything more than that and it becomes pretty stupid, Skallagrim himself was loathe to increase lifting capacity past 100 tonnes, and barring Khan's uber slow turtle, only General Freedom presents this idea that intermediate is in some way comparable to high tier, and that's just General Freedom, who's OP.

Like usual, we're playing intermediate as a fair bit lower than it needs to be and using our brains and interesting abilities rather than OP characters and only the desire to win (because that's essentially what min-maxing turns into, doing exactly what you have to in order to win.)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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I think we're vastly underestimating physical strength, and grossly overestimating magical ability.

Contrary to popular belief, human punches are rather destructive. For the record, professional boxers like Mike Tyson more or less wield their fists like small war-hammers; if one of these guys were to hit you in the head, it would be like someone crushing your face inward with a club, most likely leaving you with brain damage. Tyron's surreal punching power is most likely derived from his physical strength, mass (throwing his body weight into the punch), his lack of 'arm punching', his act of pivoting during the punch, and his foot work. Additionally, these fighters have conditioned themselves to withstand such blows, putting them several notches above the average man or woman. Granted, such high-power impacts are cushioned by the boxing gloves they wear as well as small tactics used on the target's behalf--such as dodging and weaving and stepping forward into the punch to lessen the distance the punch travels in midair---but it's still impressive stuff.

I believe Tyson had a punching power rated at 1,750-2,000 psi, which is nearly twice that of the bite force generated by a spotted African hyena, with this animal more than capable of breaking bones with its jaws.

And this is at low-tier. I don't want to imagine what a high-tier rated punch is like.

EDIT: Just read what LeeRoy said on punching force versus lifting capacity.

Sigh.
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