[OOC] Nexus Of Worlds Multiverse

[GreivousKhan]

ASTA said
I think we're vastly underestimating physical strength, and grossly overestimating magical ability. Contrary to popular belief, human punches are rather destructive. For the record, professional boxers like Mike Tyson more or less wield their fists like small war-hammers; if one of these guys were to hit you in the head, it would be like someone crushing your face inward with a club, most likely leaving you with brain damage. Tyron's surreal punching power is most likely derived from his physical strength, mass (throwing his body weight into the punch), his lack of 'arm punching', his act of pivoting during the punch, and his foot work. Additionally, these fighters have conditioned themselves to withstand such blows, putting them several notches above the average man or woman. Granted, such high-power impacts are cushioned by the boxing gloves they wear as well as small tactics used on the target's behalf--such as dodging and weaving and stepping forward into the punch to lessen the distance the punch travels in midair---but it's still impressive stuff. I believe Tyson had a punching power rated at 1,750-2,000 psi, which is nearly twice that of the bite force generated by a spotted African hyena, with this animal more than capable of breaking bones with its jaws. And this is at low-tier. I don't want to imagine what a high-tier rated punch is like.

I pretty much made that apparent with Snar's almost insane punching strength, which if anything is probably lower then it should be. But, Schradinger is also talking about lifting strength in terms of at least some basic ranged attacks. He seems to be concerned about the lack of things such a character can use in their environment to even the odds against someone that can fly and fart magic dust out their arse.

[LeeRoy]

It's easier to just say how much they can lift to give an approximation, simply because sitting down and doing the math on how fast and hard a character can punch is fucking tedious.

Also, speed is super important in how much force your punch carries. If you can't swing your arm fast then you aren't gonna carry any significant force.

[ASTA]

If a character can fly, then just throw something at them. You possess high-tier strength, so it's only safe to assume that rock is going to fly rather fast through the air.

Unsure how fast, however. You could just handwave it and claim it travels faster than a bullet or something.

[GreivousKhan]

LeeRoy said
It's easier to just say how much they can lift to give an approximation, simply because sitting down and doing the math on how fast and hard a character can punch is fucking tedious.Also, speed is super important in how much force your punch carries. If you can't swing your arm fast then you aren't gonna carry any significant force.

Or the technique behind the punch, not to mention any abilities that allows one to amplify their kinetic force.

[LeeRoy]

The techniques still transfer the force from their movements based on the speed and surface area its spread out across. And force amplification, yeah. That's magic though, so it's super hand wavey.

[Green]

MelonHead said
Yes, so people who take the limitation of being gigantic or specifically strength based should be able to lift more, and some very other specific circumstances.But not insane amounts, like your character should be able to lift its body weight, regardless (because this scales with other limitations) and if you happen to be Superman, then you can have maybe 250tonnes of lifting potential.Anything more than that and it becomes pretty stupid, Skallagrim himself was loathe to increase lifting capacity past 100 tonnes, and barring Khan's uber slow turtle, only General Freedom presents this idea that intermediate is in some way comparable to high tier, and that's just General Freedom, who's OP.Like usual, we're playing intermediate as a fair bit lower than it needs to be and using our brains and interesting abilities rather than OP characters and only the desire to win (because that's essentially what min-maxing turns into, doing exactly what you have to in order to win.)

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Rilla]

Beta bit the bullet? How long?

[LeeRoy]

I'd be willing to bet three days to a week.

[Tantalum]

Also slightly surprised about the ban, but eh, something had to give for things to finally stop boiling over in here. Not sure, but hopefully it won't last for too long?

Green said
Yeah, that makes sense.

Seconded. High tiers are fine and all, but they shouldn't need to be breaking continents with their fists just to keep up with magic/tech users.

[Glitchy]

Well isn't high tier strength the most energy efficient? Quick speed. Reflexes. Durability. Something moving at a high speed already produces sonic booms due to resistance with air. I'm not sure why there would be an argument on whether someone could compete with people using magic. Everything taken with fictional liberty can easily compete with anything else.

[Schradinger]

Not continents. Cities? Sure. But definitely not continents. I guess if we're all agreed that a strength focused character can feasibly compete with other high-tiers at a sub-1000 ton level, I'll just write up a CS when I get back and go from there.

[Glitchy]

If a strength build = character that doesn't use any abilities other than their body. That opens a lot of possibilities lol. Doesn't necessarily have to be a measure of how destructive their punch is.

[TheBiddz]

I'm fine either way with not buffing, after I thought about Maxwell's capacities. Buffing his strength in any way would be OP as hell.

[LeeRoy]

I think it should be put up to a vote, like who all is in favor of increasing the strength of characters and who all is in favor of keeping it the way it is?

[ImportantNobody]

I think high tier should have higher strength to match the powers. Either that or nerf the powers, which would cause a lot more of an issue by people who want to remain with their power.

[GreivousKhan]

LeeRoy said
I think it should be put up to a vote, like who all is in favor of increasing the strength of characters and who all is in favor of keeping it the way it is?

Increasing it to how much though?

I think at most it should be no more then 250 tons. Enough to lift most characters and suitably large things to throw at people, realty don't need anything more if one is worried about punching through something.

(It occurs to me the only real disadvantage purely physical characters have in regards to high-tech and magical opponents is the lack of prep capability, but that's another thing entirely)

[MelonHead]

Strength limitations should remain as they are, save for special cases where characters are abnormally large/heavy or specifically physical in nature, in which case I'd say it would be fair to go as high as 500 tonnes, but that's it.

[LeeRoy]

I'd say 250 should be the maximum for characters with extra abilities, 500 for the characters who are nothing but punchy guys. (Of which there are currently none.)

You should always be able to lift at least your own weight, so characters like Green's mech should be able to at least do that.

[ImportantNobody]

GreivousKhan said
Increasing it to how much though? I think at most it should be no more then 250 tons. Enough to lift most characters and suitably large things to throw at people, realty don't need anything more if one is worried about punching through something.(It occurs to me the only real disadvantage purely physical characters have in regards to high-tech and magical opponents is the lack of prep capability, but that's another thing entirely)

The thing is that 250 tons pales in comparison to the nuclear missiles or other magic of high tier that has been shown. What I consider balancing to account for that is way overboard then what would probably be allowed, like being able to knock the huge mech off balance or at least dent it severely through their physical strength. I don't know how strong that is right now, but 250 tons it aint. I'd times the number by around 8 or so.

But as stated they are already too powerful for intermediates to have a prayer, so nerfing other powers would be the best choice objectively if it wouldn't cause so many problems with people not wanting to nerf their characters.

[Schradinger]

GreivousKhan said
Increasing it to how much though? I think at most it should be no more then 250 tons. Enough to lift most characters and suitably large things to throw at people, realty don't need anything more if one is worried about punching through something.(It occurs to me the only real disadvantage purely physical characters have in regards to high-tech and magical opponents is the lack of prep capability, but that's another thing entirely)

I'd feel better about 500 tons. That way throwing something like an MBT a significant distance and with a good amount of speed wouldn't be a huge chore. I mean, a strength focused high-tier should at LEAST be able to toss around modern tanks without overly taxing themselves. In my opinion, at least.

And the point I'm getting at is that there shouldn't be an inherent disadvantage to using a physically powerful character (new term to use instead of strength-based, since as everyone's pointed out it's more than just strength). Different tactics required for effective defense and offense? Absolutely. Exploitable weaknesses that a magic/tech based character doesn't have? Yup. But no type of character should be inherently better (in an overall sense) than another in the same tier.