[OOC] Goblins

[Aristocles]

@RisqueBoots

The shaman has to be the spiritual guide, provide advice for ethical living, heal the injured, recite the tribe's oral history, maintain the sacred flame, perform ceremonies, and deal with any issues involving gods or magic. Eventually, Jig would have to take on an apprentice of her own, but that's not for a very long time.

The chief, by contrast, has to lead the tribe into war, make new laws, act as judge and jury in disputes (which might be called legal affairs, but its a very crude system), negotiate with other tribes and outsiders, order new parts of the village to be built (including new fields to be plowed), assign warriors to lead raids (he would only lead the most important raids), and to participate in ceremonies which he has to be a part of.

As for the laws themselves, those are created in two ways: tradition since time immemorial, or proclamations of chiefs when they are popular and powerful. The latter is hard to judge, but a new law made in the aftermath of a major victory or during a record harvest is more likely to be considered legitimate than one made after a defeat or a famine. Victory and prosperity are seen as signs of divine favor, and a chief acting under the aura of such favor is likely to have his laws obeyed more than otherwise.

[RisqueBoots]

That's pretty helpful, danke!

[Aristocles]

@RisqueBoots

Did you have any questions about the goblins or the setting?

[Duoya]

@Aristocles
What current laws are in place in the tribe? And how frequent are the traders that come to the Goblin village (Goblin, human, elven, etc)?

[RisqueBoots]

Oh lots, really!

Have you thought up the different gods, what do the goblins know about them, what would be appropriate times to give them offerings, what would be appropriate times to have the Shaman ask for aid from them?

What kind of dangers does the village face in general? Monsters, wolf packs, anything of that sort. Obviously rival tribes and other races being hostile sometimes.

What kind of social problems are there, that Jig might have to weigh in on or experience herself personally? Also mainly just anything that would help Jig do her part in trying to guide the village towards being more prosperous.

[Aristocles]

@Duoya

The laws are pretty simple. I don't have time to go through all of them, but the basics are:

- Don't kill another goblin from the tribe unless it is part of an agreed-upon duel or arena match.
- Don't assault, rape, kidnap, or abuse another goblin from the tribe.
- Don't steal from the tribe or anyone in it.
- Don't put out the sacred flame.
- Don't set buildings on fire.
- Don't disrespect the gods.

Merchants would rarely come to the goblin village itself (maybe a few times a year), but the goblins can certainly go to trade with humans in human settlements where they are welcome. Human towns which don't welcome them could see them be imprisoned or killed.
I haven't gotten around to trade with other races, but yes, elves would trade with them too at times.

@RisqueBoots

I haven't thought up the names of the gods, but they would a sky father/king of the gods, a god of war, a goddess of fertility/earth mother, a god of the hunt, gods of the sun and moon, and maybe a few others which you can come up with if you like.

Offerings are given on specific holy days and in times of need, usually by throwing the offering into the sacred flame. The offerings can be anything ranging from animal bones to pieces of wood from a specific grove, or even captured enemy weapons. The bodies of dead war heroes are also put into the sacred fire.

As for dangers, it is usually a mix of rival goblins, humans, and wild animals. Monsters are a danger, but not at the start of the RP. Note that any monster of serious power would likely overwhelm the village in no time.

As for social problems, that depends on what one considers a problem. I will say that a lack of male role models is an issue for the young male goblins, and there's probably no shortage of STDs. But we have to handle that one carefully if we mention it at all. Jig probably can't cure those yet, but the previous shaman probably had to cure those every day.

[Dark Light]

Here’s something I stole but think really nails goblin law

Hider

Crime and Justice

Crime, as the Goblinoids define it, is surprisingly rare in a society as wild as that of the goblinoid race. Killing is not considered a crime at all, and petty stealing is often overlooked as routine. Few crimes in the Human sense of the word are defined as such in Gobbo society, with one simple reason: religion (see Chapter Three: Religion and Magic for more info on this). Gobbo justice operates by the law of the jungle, every Gobbo for him/herself. Waiting for a fellow Gobbo to pass, sneaking up on him, knocking him out and 'borrowing' the tasty Squig he was carrying is perfectly Ok - after all, it's good practice for when you do it to a Humie. Gork salutes those with melee prowess, so killing a fellow Goblinoid is perfectly fine. In fact, Gork smiles on you all the more when it's a superior. You've proved yourself better than a superior, so are ripe for a rise in social status. I'm sure you get the picture.

Despite an atmosphere of being able to get away with almost anything , things rarely progress beyond petty thieving, the occasional killing (which is, after all, an occupational hazard the higher up the chain you are), etc. When 'justice' is perceived necessary, it is of course up the victim to get it done. A trick just as sneaky as the 'crime' itself or perhaps just killing (or attempting to kill) the perpetrator are the usual methods. Those close to the 'victim' can give them a hand of course, or warn the perpetrator of the original 'crime' beforehand...

If this is basically just civilised short Neanderthal’s it’s not really the game I was signing up for.

I wanted the cunning back stabbing, plotting, sneaky lil mischief that goblins are known for. They are opportunists that have learnt to take every advantage they could out of necessity. The fight adversity all the time and work together when it favours them.

[RisqueBoots]

That seems more like Drow to me than any goblins I've ever heard of, to be honest.

Edit: To clarify, what I mean is that tons of depictions of goblins are certainly rough and tumble and far from cultured, infighting and such happens, but that sort of plotting, back stabbing stuff is very Drow-y as far as I've ever seen personally. As far as this goes though, from what has been explained so far, it doesn't seem at all like 'just short neanderthals' and the laws list doesn't preclude the goblins from being underhanded, mischievous and sneaky. If anything the way it reads, you have to be a bit smart about it - scam someone out of their goods on a bum trade, instead of just steal outright. Blame someones death on a monster while hunting, instead of just shank them in the street. That kinda thing.

[Aristocles]

@Dark Light

While being sneaky is common for goblins, it's something they are supposed to use against other groups and in the woods, and it would be a punished by their own tribe if they were caught doing it to a fellow member of their tribe. If they were caught. Outright murder in broad daylight wouldn't be allowed.

You can totally play a sneaky, thieving goblin if you like, but they are more like a primitive tribe with a simple yet respected set of rules which they never imagined apply to anyone outside of their own society. They don't have a concept of universal morality, and don't try to enforce their laws or customs on other people in their homelands.

The simplicity of their laws allows for all sorts of loopholes and exploits if you try hard enough. For example, murder isn't allowed, but a duel in the woods is. Suppose the deal agreed on was a first-blood fistfight in the forest, with no witnesses. One goblin could hide in a bush, wait until the other goblin shows up, stab him with a dagger, hide the body, and simply claim the other goblin never showed up for the fight and must be lost in the woods. They may not be sophisticated, but they are hardly neanderthals.

Does that clear things up a bit?

[Shadow Dragon]

@Aristocles Interesting concept. I'd love to be in another rp with you.

[Aristocles]

@Shadow Dragon You can join this one if you want. I haven't forgotten our current one, either.

[Shadow Dragon]

Can I make a shaman's apprentice?

[Aristocles]

@Shadow Dragon

The current shaman is barely out of apprenticeship herself. Not sure if that works.

[Shadow Dragon]

Ah. That would complicate matters.

[Aristocles]

@Shadow Dragon

Yup. You can play the chief if you want. That slot is still open.

[Shadow Dragon]

That slot hasn't been claimed already?

[Aristocles]

@Shadow Dragon

The shaman has been taken, but not the chief.

[Shadow Dragon]

What are the Chiefs duties?

[RisqueBoots]

The chief, by contrast, has to lead the tribe into war, make new laws, act as judge and jury in disputes (which might be called legal affairs, but its a very crude system), negotiate with other tribes and outsiders, order new parts of the village to be built (including new fields to be plowed), assign warriors to lead raids (he would only lead the most important raids), and to participate in ceremonies which he has to be a part of.

As for the laws themselves, those are created in two ways: tradition since time immemorial, or proclamations of chiefs when they are popular and powerful. The latter is hard to judge, but a new law made in the aftermath of a major victory or during a record harvest is more likely to be considered legitimate than one made after a defeat or a famine. Victory and prosperity are seen as signs of divine favor, and a chief acting under the aura of such favor is likely to have his laws obeyed more than otherwise.

@Aristocles

- The chief can normally order the tribe to do anything he wants, as long as the shaman and leading warriors don't protest too much

@Aristocles

The leader of the tribe is the chief, who is always male. His rule is only subject to two limitations: the words of the shaman and the will of the strongest warriors beneath him. He personally leads the tribe into wars, gives approval to raids launched by warriors (which are smaller than a true war), hears cases and settles disputes, and metes out justice when a crime has occurred. The chief is chosen from among the strongest warriors when the previous one dies; the shaman is in charge between the rule of chiefs. This decision is made either by council or by a tournament in which the warriors fights until death or surrender for the right to be chief in a series of armed bouts. Once a new chief is chosen, he is given a ceremonial headdress by the shaman, and given control of the chief's hut. The chief usually has access to whatever adult female he wishes to have, but she can refuse his advances, thanks to the proclamations of the shamans (who explained that the gods frown on those who take a mate against her will.)

@Aristocles

@Shadow Dragon

Quoted a bunch of stuff mentioning the chief for you from throughout the thread, so that it's all in one place.

[Aristocles]

@RisqueBoots

I'm also aware that the second quote ("The chief can normally order the tribe to do anything he wants...") might contradict the other stuff if it isn't explained. In order to do "anything he wants", it would have to be something within reason, ie. doesn't anger the shaman or the leading warriors, which in turn means it can't be seen as a violation of their laws and traditions. Keep in mind that their laws are unwritten, and much of the law depends on how the shaman remembers it and how previous chiefs have applied it.