[OOC] Dragon Ball: Universe Zero

[Double]

Phew, and Han officially makes his Universe Zero debut! It felt like quite a wait at times, but now that I can post in the IC it was totally worth it.

[FalloutJack]

@Double

[Balthazar007]

If this threat is what I think it is, I highly doubt there won't be any casualties...

@Darkmoon Angel

I can't say if what we're thinking is the same if you don't tell me what your thinking. You might not be far off though. Idk.

[Balthazar007]

Phew, and Han officially makes his Universe Zero debut! It felt like quite a wait at times, but now that I can post in the IC it was totally worth it.

@Double

Your post is great. Btw, Niko is at level 121 now. You sure you want to challenge him to a battle? Lol

[FalloutJack]

@Balthazar007 What? He doesn't know. He saw Niko lose to the current champion.

[Double]

@Balthazar007@FalloutJack

The power difference is really not that big. And the series has shown quite a few times that tactics can beat out raw power. Also helps that my Secret Technique is one that was used frequently in the series for tactical purposes, although I'm still not saying what it is per your request that we keep our techniques to ourselves until they are unveiled.

Also, his intentions are clear but that doesn't mean the challenge will happen right away. Especially not if something else happens and things get interrupted.

[Balthazar007]

@FalloutJack@Double

I know Wan (the character) doesn't know. That was a question for @Double the writer. You two can absolutely have the battle. I was making sure everyone knows what their getting into.

[Balthazar007]

@Balthazar007@FalloutJack

The power difference is really not that big. And the series has shown quite a few times that tactics can beat out raw power. Also helps that my Secret Technique is one that was used frequently in the series for tactical purposes, although I'm still not saying what it is per your request that we keep our techniques to ourselves until they are unveiled.

Also, his intentions are clear but that doesn't mean the challenge will happen right away. Especially not if something else happens and things get interrupted.

@Double

Also, it sounds like you're referencing the Solar Flare. I'm not sure that works here yet. It doesn't raise any of your stats like our other secret techniques. BUT since our RP is evolving, it could be time to introduce secret techniques that effect the opponent's base stats instead of yours.

So if I'm correct in assuming that your secret technique is the Solar Flare, I think the fairest way to implement it would be if it cuts the opponent's SPEED, instead of increasing your own.

[Double]

<Snipped quote by Double>

Also, it sounds like you're referencing the Solar Flare. I'm not sure that works here yet. It doesn't raise any of your stats like our other secret techniques. BUT since our RP is evolving, it could be time to introduce secret techniques that effect the opponent's base stats instead of yours.

So if I'm correct in assuming that your secret technique is the Solar Flare, I think the fairest way to implement it would be if it cuts the opponent's SPEED, instead of increasing your own.

@Balthazar007

Well, Debuffs are usually an inevitability once Buffs are introduced. They aren't as prevalent in Dragon Ball as buffs are but they exist nonetheless. Solar Flare would indeed count as one. And if you take games like the Xenoverses into account, there are skills on those that also apply debuffs and some cases even inflict poison. Han starting out with a strange debuff technique would be a good way to distinguish him from the rest of the cast early on. Since all three types of buffs (Attack, Speed, and Defense) have already been introduced by the others... Han introducing the concept of a debuff could make things interesting.

How would the diminishing returns formula work? For buffs, they start at x2.5, then go down to x2, then to x1.5 from then on. Debuffs would need a different multiplier, and cutting a stat in half seems like a decent baseline but where would we go from there? 75% for the first time, 50% for the second, and then maybe 25 or 30% after that? Or should debuffs use static numbers? -50 the first time, -40 the second time, and then -30 all times thereafter?

[FalloutJack]

@Double I mean, I could see debuffs as being an applied negative integer to the opponent's stats in direct proportion to how the buff works, taking the stat and multiplying a negative 2.5, 2, and 1.5 to get a number, then subtracting from the opponent's affected stat to get the true number. (This, at least, would be a good trial starter unless those negative seem too large.)

[Double]

@Balthazar007@FalloutJack

Also, scrap what I said about static. I just realized they wouldn't work at all since they would almost immediately be rendered worthless by power level scaling.

[Balthazar007]

@FalloutJack@Double

What fallout said about making them inverse of buffs is basically what I was going to do. Think of it like this...

A buff of 2.5 is actually 1 + 1.5x
So a debuff should also be 1 + 1.5x , but in a different way

But the problem here lies in, "how does something this powerful effect the user? How do they pay for using it? Does it come out of one of their stats? Or..."

I think the best way for this is to introduce the concept of paying for an attack straight out of your ki. So if you have a power level of 100. And use 50 for this debuff attack, you would be debuffing your opponent by 125. And you're not going to be able to put that 50 points toward your other three stats. So in other words, your debuff is based of how much power you put toward your move, not your opponent's base stat that is being effected.

This in mind, I would like to change something regarding exhaustion calculation. From now on, secret techniques cost double what you pay to use them. So when you're using a secret technique against someone who hasn't seen it, you'll be getting a great deal on exhaustion cost. (Example: 50x2.5=125, but it will only cost 10 to exhaustion) You'll be getting a fair deal on a times 2 boost (example: 50x2=100, and the cost will be 10) But you will be running inefficiently if you use the 1.5 bonus (example: 50x1.5=75, but again, you will be paying 10 to use it.) Why then, would you ever need to use a 1.5 boost if it's inefficient? Well, as inefficient as it may be, it could still provide just enough boost or debuff to win you the match.

I know that sounds like a lot, but does that make sense. I hope I didn't overcomplicate my explanation.

[Balthazar007]

On the same note, I think all secret techniques need to follow this new model, including boosts. From now on, they take directly from your ki, then get added or subtracted from the appropriate stat (yours or your opponent's).

[Double]

Uh... I'm not quite understanding.

[FalloutJack]

@Double @Balthazar007 It is some extra math.

You know how you have your attack, defense, and speed stat? Bal has already stated that you spread your overall energy pool among those three stats, normally. He is now figuring that - with the onset of special techniques - this would be an optional fourth stat that needs to be fed into when you use a special technique. So, unless I'm getting it wrong...

Niko VS Han!

Niko uses Tatsumaki-Ken!

Power: 121
Health: 121

Secret Technique - Tatsumaki-Ken (Tornado Fist)

Ki-Enhanced Attack (instead of normal attack): 50 x 2 (because Han hasn't been had this used on him yet) = 100

--Attack: ---
-Defense: 21
---Speed: 50

[Double]

@Balthazar007@FalloutJack

Wait, hold on, Bal edited their explanation. The 100 cost became 10. That made it make a bit more sense. I just thought the 100 cost was way too high and wondered how techniques could ever be usable if they cost that much to muse. xD

[FalloutJack]

@Balthazar007 Perhaps a corrective example view is in order. I may need one too.

[Balthazar007]

@Double @FalloutJack

Actually, your example should look more like this...

Niko uses Tatsumaki-Ken!

Power: 121
Health: 121

Secret Technique - Tatsumaki-Kei (Tornado Fist)
25 x 2 = 50 Attack Bonus

Serious Attack
--Attack: 25 x 2 = 50 + 50 = 100
-Defense: 21
---Speed: 50

I know it is the same end result, but it's important to note the separation of where your stats are distributed. Why? Because what if you wanted put more ki to attack (when you otherwise couldn't because of your character's focuses).

Like so...

Niko uses Tatsumaki-Ken!

Power: 121
Health: 121

Secret Technique - Tatsumaki-Kei (Tornado Fist)
50 x 2 = 100 Attack Bonus

Serious Attack
--Attack: 25 x 2 = 50 + 100 = 150
-Defense: 21
---Speed: 25

Notice how you're still in compliance, with your base attack stat being equal to or less than your base speed stat, but you're putting a lot more into your attack than you otherwise would be able.

Now secret techniques can serve another purpose. They can surprise your opponent with a major shift in tactics.

I could also get into exhaustion costs, but that's probably too much at once.

[FalloutJack]

Well, with that explained, who's up?

[Balthazar007]

Well, with that explained, who's up?

@FalloutJack

Actually, I believe that would be you. You need to create the opportunity that he mentioned at the end of his post. Like... There could be a festival on the island, to celebrate the tournament's conclusion. Niko being Niko, probably elects not to join the festivities and instead sneaks off to the abandoned side of the large island for a little self-reflection or something.

It's up to you. That was just a random idea.