[OOC] Fall of Faerieland

[Dark Cloud]

@Birdboy So I'm interested in playing a Necromancer but in a more esoteric spiritual sorta way that would fit better into the obviously bright and cheerful world of Neopets, so prolly the Soul sect of the class. If not whatevs it's all good, I'm not here to cause a stink. We here to chill and have a good time.

[Birdboy]

I hate to be a prude but I'm going to say no on the nexromamcer. The site used is notorious for bad homebrew, but this one isn't too bad. If it werent for the subclass abilities I'd be on board.

If you're Hell bent on being a necromancer I would be fine with looking through homebrew or helping you build a necromancer wizard. That said, you might want to look at the haunted woods for character inspiration.

[Digizel]

Speaking as someone who's really done his research into 5e, there are a few sticking points to that class that immediately jump out at me personally (especially when I compare it to what would be its alternative, which is the Necromancy Wizard).

1. d8 hit dice versus the Wizard's d6--I'm not entirely sure why a class that is basically a Wizard but with its own set of feats that don't relate to HP gets a bigger hit die. This class is a full caster class, unlike the Artificer. If their feats damaged themselves or something like that, I'd see the reason for it, but as-is, I think it should stay at a d6, personally.

2. Using Charisma instead of Intelligence for the spellcasting ability--I take issue when a homebrew spellcaster class wants to use Charisma instead of Intelligence, because in my experience, more often than not, they really just want to use the "better" stat for spellcasting. This class is flavored like a Wizard: a Necromancer uses a Spellbook, they prepare spells by studying and memorizing them like a Wizard does, and they cast them using their memory and knowledge. There isn't really a reason they should be using Charisma, when all of these traits are tied to Intelligence.

3. Resisting Poison--Now, this isn't as bad as some actual RAW feats that already exist, like how a race can get an IMMUNITY to poison (I'm still constantly wondering wtf WotC were smoking when they came up with Yuan-Ti Pureblood racials). Feats that grant innate resistances are strong as it is, especially if that type is Poison or Fire. But this single, 3rd-level feat is doing two other things on top of that (though I don't personally mind necrotic resistance being tacked on at all, despite Necromancy Wizards not gaining this resistance until Level 10). This gets especially rough when you consider that Wizards don't normally even get a feat at this level in order to balance the fact that they are now capable of preparing and casting their next spell level. Which brings me to my next point of contention....

4. The sheer number of feats--If you look back at the Wizard's class table, you might notice a pattern. They don't get many feats: Starting from Level 2, they get a single feat every fourth level (2, 6, 10, etc.). They get a feat, then nothing, then an ASI, then nothing again, and then another feat. This is because they don't really need that many feats because they can prepare and utilize such a wide variety of spells in large numbers.

I understand that the CONCEPT of the class is different from the Wizard, but...this class as written just seems like it wants to take the best parts of the wizard, and then add more feats without making any negative changes to compensate. Aaand the Wizard is already one of the strongest classes in 5e imo, right up there with Cleric and Bard. This concept CAN work, but imo, it definitely needs a lot of tinkering.

The easiest way to nerf this appropriately would probably to give them the spell slots of a Half-Caster. Or maybe restrict their spells to a maximum number of "Spells Known" like the Bard/Ranger, instead of having access to such a wide variety at all times. Or one could even compile a whole different list of spells as a "Necromancer Spell List" instead of just using the Wizard's. I'm also fine if a spellcaster wants to be a Charisma caster, but it has to be flavored appropriately, and not just Copy-Pasted from the Wizard.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I don't mean to rain on a parade, but this does just seem pretty strong to me. xD I'm not gonna lie, I'm a fan of the concept of taking a branch from the Wizard and making it its own designated spellcasting class, though. So if we wanted to take the time and effort into making quite a few changes, this could be a fun inclusion.

[XxFellsingxX]

I'm gonna defer to the people who are more experienced with 5e for this one. Though I'll admit, even I am aware of the reputation D&D Wiki has for unbalanced homebrew.

[Dark Cloud]

Like I said, that's fine it was just something I liked and wanted to see if I could play. I will say a lot of people don't give the wiki a chance though, I do use it to help make the background stuff though when I am stumped on Ideals.

I just skimmed through @Digizel's post but I'll read it in full after breakfast, personally I feel the wizards archetypes don't represent necromancy well enough but I'm someone whose used to 3.5 D&D's sheer amount of options so I'm biased.

@Birdboy I'd like to discuss maybe trying to use this, we could try to talk shop about it and I'd love that.

[Dark Cloud]

We could give it the d4 HD, give Nec the Wizards sole Class Proficiencies and remove the high level class features, I would like to keep the Sects though. I will say I'm not leaning towards like raising undead armies, I would be interested in playing a necromancer focused on the spiritual nature of death.

[Dark Cloud]

@Digizel Oh Charisma is related to Undeath a lot, as it is how Undead calculate their lifeforce; that was a big thing in stats and how negative energy effects the world as a whole.

[Dark Cloud]

On the other hand I'm also content to play a Cleric or a Sorcerer (I'm more in favor of Sorcerer)

[XxFellsingxX]

On the other hand I'm also content to play a Cleric or a Sorcerer (I'm more in favor of Sorcerer)

@Dark Cloud

I am planning on multiclassing as a Cleric at some point, but either would a good addition. Honestly, just having another caster in general sounds great. Especially if Olive doesn't return, as having the only caster in the party being a ranger sounds like it might be tricky xD

[Dark Cloud]

@XxFellsingxX I'll go Sorcerer then, probably Draconic or Storm.
Yeah Rangers alone can't really do a good spellcasting role, I love em' though.

[XxFellsingxX]

@XxFellsingxX I'll go Sorcerer then, probably Draconic or Storm.

@Dark Cloud

Interesting. How would you go about handling a Draconic Sorcerer in a setting like Neopets?

[Dark Cloud]

@XxFellsingxX Hm, I'd need to think about it honestly as it's been a little while since I last played Neopets. But from my knowledge making it fit would be a wee bit of a work around.

I haven't got around to playing a Storm bloodline yet and I am kinda hankering to play a sea fairing sort. I should look into the game again honestly my knowledge is a bit rusty.

[Digizel]

@Dark Cloud

...personally I feel the wizards archetypes don't represent necromancy well enough but I'm someone whose used to 3.5 D&D's sheer amount of options so I'm biased.

I certainly understand the feeling, and that's why I like the idea of branching out from the Wizard to make it its own designated class. The biggest problem is that this class as-written is just everything that makes the Wizard strong, plus extra stuff. It even borrows feats FROM the Necromancy Wizard here and there (which is not inherently bad, since they're both Necromancers it would make sense to share them) but it highlights that the class is kind of lazily designed.

We could give it the d4 HD, give Nec the Wizards sole Class Proficiencies and remove the high level class features

I have a knee-jerk reaction to this idea of the d4. I don't like the idea of giving ANYBODY such a small HD. I don't think it'd be a good idea if a character can get knocked out in one shot at level 1 because someone tossed a dagger their way, or cast a simple magic missile. Even at Level 3, on average, a wizard-like character would have 10 HP +/- CON, which is, again, easily one-shot by a lot of enemies at this level. I want to balance this thing, but I also want you to have fun and not get downed immediately so often xD

I'll do a deeper dive into the features and see what I can do to balance these things out a bit more. Like I said, this seems fun, but it is definitely in need of some major reworking. Since you said you were leaning toward the Soul Sect, I'll only really look at that sect for now, though.

I would like to keep the Sects though. I will say I'm not leaning towards like raising undead armies, I would be interested in playing a necromancer focused on the spiritual nature of death.

Okay, do you think you could go into a bit more detail about the "spiritual nature of death?" I could use this to help balance the class by removing some of the things you don't really want in the class anyway, and maybe better change around some things to make it even more appropriate.

Oh Charisma is related to Undeath a lot, as it is how Undead calculate their lifeforce; that was a big thing in stats and how negative energy effects the world as a whole.

I did pick up on this, but the main problem is that it wants to use Charisma as its spellcasting stat, but the way the Necromancer as-written learns and casts them is identical to the way a Wizard does it: By studying and using their memory and knowledge. It's cool to use Charisma, but the class needs to earn it; it can't just copy-paste the way a Wizard casts spells AND use a different stat to cast with. If they use traits associated with Intelligence to cast their spells, it doesn't really make sense to make them a Charisma caster. They'll need to look toward the Paladin, Bard, etc. for info on how CHA-casting works.

A Paladin and a Warlock utilizes Charisma because their magical power comes from another source: A Paladin's god/other spiritual figure or a Warlock's patron. It is their interactions with that source that grant them their power.

A Bard utilizes Charisma because it's tied into their talents with the arts. It's tied to their ability to create the arts, such as through music. Their source is Charisma-based in Performance and Persuasion, therefore Charisma.

A Sorcerer is naturally born with their magic powers through some other means. They don't have to study magic to have it, nor do they need to receive it from another figure or through any devices. They have a well of magic already inside them, and it is their own force of will that gives it form.

Those are some examples of how Charisma-based magic works, and why they use Charisma. The way they access their magic and cast their spells needs to be focused on charisma to warrant Charisma-based casting.

I'll go Sorcerer then, probably Draconic or Storm.

Honestly, I think for this particular campaign, it may be best to just go with your choice of Sorcerer. But I can still potentially work on that Necromancer on the side; maybe potentially introduce a new character later on.

If this is the route you're wanting to go, may I just say that Dragons are rad af and next time I use a Ranger, I plan on using the new Drakewarden subclass? xD

Anyway, as a rare individual with a fondness for BOTH D&D and Neopets, I've got you on the Draconic Sorcerer. I can probably help you figure that out. I suppose you'd just need to decide on what type of dragon you'd be going for. Because...that could easily determine how easy or difficult this will be to incorporate. But if you opt for Storm instead, since you also seem interested in a sailor of some kind, then that's fine too~

[Dark Cloud]

@Digizel Help would be welcome, throw me a PM. I can't seem to get google docs to load so I will need a hand.

[Digizel]

@Moon Man Oh right, I should also point out something that might have been missed due to my difficulty in describing appearances as well as my character sheet not being 100% accurate.

Ferrin is actually not wearing his full suit of armor, and is dressed more casually at the moment; he is wielding his sword and shield on his back, but atm, the armor he's wearing is his Chain Shirt, beneath more casual clothing. I changed his current AC on his character sheet to accomodate for this. (He now has 13+1+2=16 instead of his 16+2=18 Chainmail). He tends to avoid traveling in his heavier armor for the sake of comfort, preferring to instead don his armor in preparation in preparation for when he is ready to actually embark on something where he anticipates needing it, like going into a dungeon or walking onto a battlefield.

[Digizel]

And actually, now that I think about it, I might remove his heavier armor altogether... I like to think that Meridell is a bit "cheaper" on its regulation armor. As much as I like the idea of having a natural AC of 18, I think I'm gonna just have him rely on a Chain Shirt for now. xD It'll probably be a bit more fun for his character that way...and I don't have to worry about the semantics of him lugging around an entire second set of armor everywhere he goes xD

[Dark Cloud]

So what is starting money? Also sent you a message Digi.

[Dark Cloud]

Okay making a sheet now.

[Digizel]

So what is starting money? Also sent you a message Digi.

@Dark Cloud

You can choose to either take the Starting Equipment the class gives you, OR you can roll for wealth using the site's dice feature. If you choose to do this, though, you'll need to post a link to your roll here in the chat.

If you're using Sorcerer, rolling for wealth will give you 3d4*10 gp. So with a maximum roll, you could end up with 120 GP. But with a minimum roll, you would end up with 30 GP.

For Backgrounds, if your pet is a normal, simple color (like Red, Purple, Pink, Green, etc.) then you can use any Background you want, and you could get some spare GP from that. But if you want something a bit more advanced in color, like Darigan or Faerie, then it's probably more important to work out what that will be with the group; especially okaying it with the DM.

[Dark Cloud]

So yes going Sorcerer and I have decided yes I want to play a Hissi. As for color that will also be weird cause Draconic stuff.