[OOC] Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

[Pepperm1nts]

@Jeddaven I still want to make a post about the last meeting between Poland and Prussia regarding Moscow, so let's not have that happen off-screen. EDIT: They're also not "phasing mercenaries out in favor of Prussian troops", since they still want to keep Moscow and it would be silly to just give it away to Prussia. What they are doing is cutting the force down a bit to ease the costs, and asking Prussia to help maintain security there.

[Jeddaven]

Alright, I will make those edits. I wasn't entirely sure about what to do, considering how little Poland gets mentioned in the lore summaries.

[Pepperm1nts]

I think the only important things are the annexation of Ukraine and Czech Republic, the occupation of Moscow, and the fact that Poland is famous for selling guns. Aside from that, I think you are somewhat free to add your own stuff. You can look at the wiki page for it to see what Keen wrote for it back when he played it.

[Vilageidiotx]

Coke probably only exists in America in this world, but it is difficult to say. In real life, the US expanded its international market the most in the twenties after burying itself in European affairs after the Great War. This involved Americans who had served in the war taking a greater interest in the old world and American companies actively circumventing European business traditions. If the canon is that America never built its market Empire, we'd have to assume that American goods have mostly stayed in America and that the traditional style of local business being king still rules in Europe. Long story short, only Byrd gets Coke. The main complicating factor is that Spanish capitalists behave somewhat like American capitalists in this RP, that they would be aware of American products even if they aren't mass distributed because the American market is such an obvious one. It's not impossible that there are Spanish equivalents. Maybe there is a Spanish soda industry? I would suspect it would look kinda like the Mexican soda industry, which is to say that most drinks would be fruit-based. If you ever go to a grocery store in the US in an area where you have some Mexicans, you can get a can of Mexican soda pretty cheap and it has some unique flavors like Pear and Guava that are pretty interesting. Not sure what Spaniards would use. Europe might have Soda fountains, but the rest of the world... I don't see it becoming popular beyond the west at all. I imagine Coffee and Tea are still king.

I thought it was five, but when I tried to figure the day out I got something totally different than what I had before of every two and a half posts being a day. I got something like three and a quarter. Someone remind me what the dating was. Vilage?

@Dinh AaronMk

Most definitely five days. Probably just screwed up the math at one point. But I wouldn't worry much about individual days, really. When I want to get a specific day, I just figure each page represents roughly a week or so and grab a date at ass-random based on that.

[Byrd Man]

Long story short, only Byrd gets Coke.

@Vilageidiotx

Goddamn right.

[Wilted Rose]

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx> Goddamn right.

@Byrd Man

Senpai open your markets to me

[Pepperm1nts]

Yo Byrd, next post, could we have some diplomats meet to discuss the possibility of supplying Prussia with vast amounts of Coca-Cola?

[Vilageidiotx]

Yo Byrd, next post, could we have some diplomats meet to discuss the possibility of supplying Prussia with vast amounts of Coca-Cola?

@Pepperm1nts

I think the Germans are probably content enough with all that beer.

[Dinh AaronMk]

On Jed's Poland, I had to refer to Googer and Vilage to get their opinion. We've come to a couple conclusions to be reexamined and revised. Smallest of it being your claim to rocketry. You can have it, but Googer would be comfortable if you step it back to smaller scaled stuff. Rocket launchers and the like. But no large-scale, long-range missiles. Vilage also pointed out an imbalanced sort of interpretation to economic woes and fueling a major military overhaul with Dansk. So there's that imbalance. Of the bigger concern is your claims concerning the Great War. In the history of the real world Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary and substantial claim to and interests in Poland. In some way, all three powers were making initiatives before the war to create a Polish state loyal to them, and made sure to keep the region politically divided between them as to use it as leverage against their enemies. They made concessions and set aside promises to the Polish people in exchange for loyalty and for troops. The political divide of the Polish region between Austria-Hungary, Germany, and Russia would have made the state very volatile and violent. And its position between Germany and Russia would have made it a significant source of violence. On Poland in the First World War: "The war split the ranks of the three partitioning empires, pitting Russia as defender of Serbia and ally of Britain and France against the leading members of the Central Powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary. This circumstance afforded the Poles political leverage as both sides offered pledges of concessions and future autonomy in exchange for Polish loyalty and army recruits. The Austrians wanted to incorporate Congress Poland into their territory of Galicia, so even before the war they allowed nationalist organizations to form there (for example, Związek Strzelecki). The Russians recognized the Polish right to autonomy and allowed formation of the Polish National Committee, which supported the Russian side. In 1916, attempting to increase Polish support for the Central Powers and to raise a Polish army the German and Austrian emperors declared a new Kingdom of Poland, (see Regency Kingdom of Poland (1916-1918). The new Kingdom consisted only of a small part of the old Commonwealth, i.e. the territory of Congress Poland, although some promises were made about a future incorporation of Vilna and Minsk. The Kingdom was ruled by three Regents, possessed a Parliament and a Government, a small army and its own currency, called the Polish mark. The Regency Kingdom was the fourth and last monarchy in Poland's history. As the war settled into a long stalemate, the issue of Polish self-rule gained greater urgency. Roman Dmowski spent the war years in Western Europe, hoping to persuade the Allies to unify the Polish lands under Russian rule as an initial step toward liberation. In the meantime, Piłsudski had correctly predicted that the war would ruin all three of the partitioners, a conclusion most people thought highly unlikely before 1918. Piłsudski therefore formed the Polish Legions to assist the Central Powers in defeating Russia as the first step toward full independence for Poland. Much of the heavy fighting on the war's Eastern Front took place on the territory of the former Polish state. In 1914 Russian forces advanced very close to Kraków before being beaten back. The next spring, heavy fighting occurred around Gorlice and Przemyśl, to the east of Kraków in Galicia. In 1915 Polish territories were looted and abandoned by the retreating Russian army, trying to emulate the scorched earth policy of 1812;[2][3] the Russians also evicted and deported hundreds of thousands of its inhabitants suspected of collaborating with the enemy.[2][4][5] By the end of 1915, the Germans had occupied the entire Russian sector, including Warsaw. In 1916 another Russian offensive in Galicia exacerbated the already desperate situation of civilians in the war zone; about 1 million Polish refugees fled eastward behind Russian lines during the war. Although the Russian offensive of 1916 caught the Germans and Austrians by surprise, poor communications and logistics prevented the Russians from taking full advantage of their situation. A total of 2 million Polish troops fought with the armies of the three occupying powers, and 450,000 died. Several hundred thousand Polish civilians were moved to labour camps in Germany. The scorched-earth retreat strategies of both sides left much of the war zone uninhabitable." So things weren't pretty in Poland and they'd be very, very heavily scarred. They'd be coming into independence with a lot of wastelands, a scattered diaspora, many dead, and everything overturned if still not divided significantly between the major powers after they withdrew. Polish history in your app for the Great War needs to be re-examined, it may be alternate history but the history of the Great War here is still close enough to the real world that it can not diverge so much that Poland got out scotch free with only a few cuts and bruises, as opposed to broken bones and a few amputations shoddily and stitched back together. The situation as Vilage suggests would be considerably dire. The military can be powerful in an effort to resist Russia or Germany from making gains on their former territories and client states, but they'd still have issue. It'd be reasonable to suggest that the post-war depression would be incredibly disastrous on Poland with a young economy as young as it is (even if it could have managed to settle full independence from Germany and Russia well before the War ended). And we'd still have lingering effects of economic recession from then on. Being a neighbor to Russia too it might suffer threat from the destabilizing region, think armed groups noble to anyone using their territories as a forward operating base to re-enter Russia and avoid larger political entities. And ownership of Dansk isn't going to make anything better, nor occupying Czech lands or Ukraine. Both might as well still come with nationalist resentment still - despite the openness - and the other will have high costs associated with maintaining it, repairing it, and getting up to a "Polish Standard". I think its RL path to independence might also be worth reviewing.

[Jeddaven]

I was using the wiki page as a general guide for the history. I'll try to make those edits as soon as possible.

[Vilageidiotx]

One possible explanation of the military is that it starts out heavily influenced by Polish paramilitary organizations. I could see a situation rising where a young proto-government spends what money they can earmark for the military mostly arming these organizations. There is something unique there to exploit. Poland could be a nation with a military where people pay for their equipment initially, with the draw being that the benefits and stability of the military makes it the best job to have initially. The early Polish military would have been small, but educated, and they would have melted together with local border militia's and patriotic paramilitary organizations. This wouldn't be sustainable forever, and it would be the way things work in 1980, but it would give you a root to build your military organization from. Eventually there would be more concessions for poor people to enter the service, most likely opening gruntwork to people who cannot pay for any basic equipment (and by equipment I mean, like, their gun and uniform. No planes and shit). The paramilitary organizations would slowly be brought into the government so that they fill a role similar to the national guard in the US. This outline creates the Poland that makes mad cash on arms dealing which became so important in the Armenian storyline.

[Pepperm1nts]

To be fair, Keen made a lot of claims that went unopposed back then, and Cheesy is now using as reference. So it's not entirely his fault, but I do agree they should be addressed now. The port thing, and the rocketry stuff were among those things stated by Keen.

[Vilageidiotx]

To be fair, Keen made a lot of claims that went unopposed back then, and Cheesy is now using as reference. So it's not entirely his fault, but I do agree they should be addressed now. The port thing, and the rocketry stuff were among those things stated by Keen.

@Pepperm1nts

Yeh, 2012 was some archaic shit. That's why the wiki is a bad reference. The reason we made the info in the lore sheet so terse is that we want to give people freedom to do their own stuff. So long as you fulfill the basics - that Poland has those borders and that they produced weapons for Armenia - you can remake yourself from there.

[Vilageidiotx]

Answer to the question of using racism as a plot point.

I'm just curious if we are allowed to use it in story as 1. a plot device and 2. as a lesson. Clearly this is a bad thing in real life, and of course be displayed as such in the writing, but I'm just curious about the limits of the fiction we write on this site. Racism is a real and nasty thing, but it has also lead to some of the greatest examples of humanity working together. Just want to check to make sure before I do anything, as I did have an idea for a character with a bit of a negative bias, but one that I would have develop so that he is able to outgrow it.

jasonwolf

The consensus is that it is acceptable but it must be done tastefully and keeping aware of the people's comfort levels within the roleplay. Epithets will be allowed if they include *** to block out the majority of the letters (this is to save it from causing issues with adsense. If anyone's in doubt about a post, feel free to send it to one of us mods to check it. Basically be delicate, tasteful and careful with it. Good luck.

Kangaroo

[Byrd Man]

Yo Byrd, next post, could we have some diplomats meet to discuss the possibility of supplying Prussia with vast amounts of Coca-Cola?

@Pepperm1nts

The Great Coke Airlift of 1980?

Answer to the question of using racism as a plot point. <Snipped quote by jasonwolf> <Snipped quote by Kangaroo>

@Vilageidiotx

I went ahead a few days ago and edited the N-word uses I dropped in one of my post. But I refuse to edit the ones I used in Off-Topic. I stand by my convictions on that one.

[Chapatrap]

>no Georgia >can't edit on phone :(

[Pepperm1nts]

I guess with that ruling, what we can do to be 'delicate' is include some kind of disclaimer, I guess. Something that states that whatever characters say or do is obviously not in line with the beliefs of the writers, and that it is done purely for plot. I am glad the mods here have some sense, though.

[Meiyuuhi]

>no Georgia >can't edit on phone :(

@Chapatrap

I will add you immediately. Color request?

[Pepperm1nts]

He said he wanted bright pink. Like, seriously. I asked him on Steam. Paint Georgia bright pink.

[Chapatrap]

<Snipped quote by Chapatrap> I will add you immediately. Color request?

@Mihndar

Bright pink.