Questioning the GM Format

[DELETEDUSER007]

I'll get straight to the point. This isn't referring to the way the site works or how threads are made or anything like that, but rather, how group roleplays are actually run. Now currently we use GMs and Co-GMs to run various stories, and while that can work great if the individuals involved have the ability, time, and motivation to see a story through to its end, in reality most RPs that use this format (which overly relies on one person or a small group of people that usually aren't the players to create and further the main plot) either never begin because a GM cannot or will not put up an intro post for whatever reason; or create the actual RP thread. Or die shortly after they begin because motivation fell through or life got in the way, etc.

In my mind, if the primary means of running roleplays is this fickle--again since it relies on a single figure or a small group of them to carry on--then why are we still using it?

Now you might be wondering what my hypothetical solution may be. Well, that's simple. Every player involved acts as a GM, and the RP is treated like a co-authored narrative rather than someone else's stage that you just happen to be playing on. So all involved not only decide where the story should go, along with how it should begin, climax, and end ideally because flying by the seat of your pants without any kind of plan or outline is a great way to kill a tale, but can also move the plot along even if a few of their fellow players or the person who started the whole thing drop out.

Granted, there are flaws in this idea and I could've put it more eloquently, but on the whole I genuinely don't think having a single point of failure like we do now with the normal GM system helps RP longevity. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite. As for making an outline, some could call that railroading. But the fact of the matter is, you are railroaded in every RP you enter to some degree, with the only time that isn't the case being ones that are pure sandbox. And, barring a few successful ones like the tavern roleplays over in Free (although this is also debatable with how posting has dried up), most of those die due to a lack of direction and goal as players write aimlessly to try and come up with some kind of compelling narrative or plot thread.

Finally, I know writing an RP isn't exactly like writing or co-authoring a book. But maybe if it were just the tiniest bit closer (if not in format, then at least in regards to a player's general attitude and approach) we'd have less dead and dying ones on our hands.

[Carlyle]

No thanks. RPs will always die out regardless of what you do. Given people are anonymous here and elsewhere, there is no accountability to be had. Besides, these things rarely work well and/or for long outside of exclusive friend groups than with complete strangers. You're just replacing one person's absence and issues as a GM and multiplying it by X amount of group members, essentially.

[Quartz]

This is definitely something people do, it’s not an outlandish concept. But it comes with major downsides.

The flipside of the single point of failure is that a GM-based game needs only one competent and dedicated person to keep the roleplay functioning. If all the other players are flaky and passive-reactive, it might not be a great roleplay, but it can continue to function on the shoulders of the GM. Whereas a game with shared control needs multiple competent and dedicated players to work, because one person isn’t going to do the heavy lifting in a story they don’t have any reliable authority over. So you need at least two people who individually would have been competent enough to be GM, or really three to avoid the risk of it devolving into a one-on-one.

On the other hand, with shared control, it only takes one player without a good grasp on plot coherence or setting integrity to ruin it for everyone else. You could democratically veto someone’s contribution, but the effort to do that is so much higher than when you have one person with the authority to just say no. I’ve been on this site much longer than my account indicates and I’ve seen it plenty of times.
_{(This doesn’t apply to anyone I'm playing with at the time of writing, don't worry.)}

Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it. In fact, I think this is the most fun way to play if you can assemble a group of competent and proactive players. But GM-based games are more resilient to the environment we realistically live in, where the majority of players have good material to contribute but lack the competence, proactivity, or time to actively prop up a plot and setting.

[DELETEDUSER007]

I'll say that both points raised thus far are more than fair. And yeah, the group part does hinder itself if the players are not as competent, proactive, or available as is required.

[Gareth]

This is insightful and pretty indepth conversation on the topic. I'm gunna just put in my 50 cents in a simpler fashion.

Would it be viable for every player to be a GM in every story on this site at The Same Time Through The Whole Story? In my opinion no because it's too confusing about who's deciding where the next destination is at a given post and because it would take too much collaboration of people rapid posting back and forth to get a single post out. People's timezones compounds the problem.

Now I think your idea can be tweaked and could work in a story within the site. There was a roleplay I was a part of a long time ago. Where one gm would have control through one story arc and it sort of passed to the next player for the next story arc. Now that's for a single story if you and the other players want to do that.

[DELETEDUSER007]

This is insightful and pretty indepth conversation on the topic. I'm gunna just put in my 50 cents in a simpler fashion.

Would it be viable for every player to be a GM in every story on this site at The Same Time Through The Whole Story? In my opinion no because it's too confusing about who's deciding where the next destination is at a given post and because it would take too much collaboration of people rapid posting back and forth to get a single post out. People's timezones compounds the problem.

Now I think your idea can be tweaked and could work in a story within the site. There was a roleplay I was a part of a long time ago. Where one gm would have control through one story arc and it sort of passed to the next player for the next story arc. Now that's for a single story if you and the other players want to do that.

@Gareth

Well I probably didn't explain it too well, but ideally all the plotting of where to go and what to do would be hashed out before the RP even starts, hence my point on making an outline or deciding on a beginning, middle, and ending at the very least so that you have goalposts to work towards. As opposed to just writing whatever comes to mind in the moment or within one character's arc that hopefully connects with the main plot being woven by a GM. But I can see how the posting format might be problematic in that regard even with all the planning. And, additionally, how much effort that is to put in before the roleplay even begins, which given this is a hobby would require finding people with the same levels of competence, reliability, and motivation as you like Quartz mentioned.

And I recall a few roleplays like that, where each player controls a particular arc within the overarching narrative. Can't say I joined many, as I'm fairly certain a lot were set in DC or Marvel and neither of those series I'm really interested in, but that could definitely work.

[Gareth]

<Snipped quote by Gareth>

Well I probably didn't explain it too well, but ideally all the plotting of where to go and what to do would be hashed out before the RP even starts, hence my point on making an outline or deciding on a beginning, middle, and ending at the very least so that you have goalposts to work towards. As opposed to just writing whatever comes to mind in the moment or within one character's arc that hopefully connects with the main plot being woven by a GM. But I can see how the posting format might be problematic in that regard even with all the planning. And, additionally, how much effort that is to put in before the roleplay even begins, which given this is a hobby would require finding people with the same levels of competence, reliability, and motivation as you like Quartz mentioned.

And I recall a few roleplays like that, where each player controls a particular arc within the overarching narrative. Can't say I joined many, as I'm fairly certain a lot were set in DC or Marvel and neither of those series I'm really interested in, but that could definitely work.

@Havoccultist

Oh my bad, I didn't really catch on to that part of your post about the pre-planning. I still don't know honestly, on the fence if it could work site wide. But I mean if you want to give it a shot in a story, who are we to stop you.

That's cool that you were in some of those sharing story arcs within a story under the overarching narrative like you said. :D

At the end of the day, don't feel discouraged and give it a go. You're trying something most of us haven't dared to. So like props to you.

[DELETEDUSER007]

<Snipped quote by Havoccultist>

Oh my bad, I didn't really catch on to that part of your post about the pre-planning. I still don't know honestly, on the fence if it could work site wide. But I mean if you want to give it a shot in a story, who are we to stop you.

That's cool that you were in some of those sharing story arcs within a story under the overarching narrative like you said. :D

At the end of the day, don't feel discouraged and give it a go. You're trying something most of us haven't dared to. So like props to you.

@Gareth

I'll probably get round to it eventually.

_{I say as I join yet another RP in the meantime... 😅}

I'd need to find people who are dedicated enough, maybe a small group, and obviously have an idea that draws interest. But there's no rush in any case. I just wanted to discuss this because I've seen as many RPs die due to GMs leaving or closing them down, the latter I've done myself at times simply because the motivation wasn't there, as they would have due to players leaving and wondered if there wasn't a better way that capitalized on the collaborative aspect of the hobby.

[BrokenPromise]

Much like a business, government, project, family, or any sort of team effort, it's usually a lot easier when you have one person who can make all the tough decisions. The reason why people go for the GM/Co-GM format is because it's usually easier to run things that way. But heavy is the head that wears the crown.

I think that RP players are just a little flaky by nature. Often we have larger than life ideas for our characters and RPs and reality never quite measures up to them. I think you mentioned you wanted to plan your RP before it even started. I think that you're going to need a way to decide who's plans go in and who's don't. Moreover, I've found that the most successful GMs aren't the ones that have a contingency for every hickup, but are good improvisers. They plan well, but are flexible enough to adapt to things that nobody could see coming.

Honestly, a good GM will listen to their players and let them affect the plot's direction. Regardless if it's something very on rails or more of a sandbox environment.

I can't say for sure if this "everyone's a GM" thing would work or not, but if your issue is that the GM keeps leaving, maybe become the GM yourself? I've almost exclusively GM now and only join RPs by proven GMs and I have few issues with how long the RPs I join last. And as others have said, having a group of people you trust is good too. Just remember that RPs can last years and that's just long enough for life to do some nasty shit to your friend groups.