Wannabe Writer Needs Help

[Zeroth]

So like a lot of us in the narrative roleplaying community, I've made numerous attempts to write my own stuff. Novels, short stories, tabletop campaigns, etc. Recently, though, a recurring problem I've been wrestling with really just has me doubting, on the whole, my ability to ever make any of it successful. I've always felt that I have a lot of strengths in different areas of writing. I feel confident in worldbuilding, designing stuff like magic systems, making characters, and writing direct action (like arguments or combat). I think my ability to describe things and pace events is okay.

But when it comes to an "overall plot," especially one that has a strong meaning or theme, I feel like I'm falling short. I always reach a point in my writing where I'm asking myself "Why would the reader care about these characters? Or about what they're doing? And what value does this story really have to anyone who's not me?" I can sometimes come up with smaller scale plots, that basically boil down to "Character A wants something really badly, but can't have it for reasons. So they do XYZ about it." But then, when I start trying to string those plots together with some kind of overarching structure, it feels really slapdash even if I try to keep all the events focused around the same thing.

I don't feel like I can really "grab" a reader, or give them an experience that leaves them with the "just finished a book blues." I don't feel like there's any "point" to reading a particular story I, specifically, wrote versus any number of other stories out there on the shelves. I'm not sure "why" I'm writing these things beyond just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." idea that pops into my head. Like, I'm not trying to change the world with some ground-shaking philosophy or anything, but I feel like there needs to be some kind of strong message that serves as a kind of glue to really make everything else in the story fit together.

Has anybody else experienced this struggle, or gotten past it? Those of you who have successfully published your writing, or at least finished a draft or two, do you have any advice? Anyone else feel free to chime in of course, but I'd be especially interested to hear from those who have become "pros," in a sense.

[Charley]

quote from Zeroth

So like a lot of us in the narrative roleplaying community, I've made numerous attempts to write my own stuff. Novels, short stories, tabletop campaigns, etc. Recently, though, a recurring problem I've been wrestling with really just has me doubting, on the whole, my ability to ever make any of it successful. I've always felt that I have a lot of strengths in different areas of writing. I feel confident in worldbuilding, designing stuff like magic systems, making characters, and writing direct action (like arguments or combat). I think my ability to describe things and pace events is okay.

But when it comes to an "overall plot," especially one that has a strong meaning or theme, I feel like I'm falling short. I always reach a point in my writing where I'm asking myself "Why would the reader care about these characters? Or about what they're doing? And what value does this story really have to anyone who's not me?" I can sometimes come up with smaller scale plots, that basically boil down to "Character A wants something really badly, but can't have it for reasons. So they do XYZ about it." But then, when I start trying to string those plots together with some kind of overarching structure, it feels really slapdash even if I try to keep all the events focused around the same thing.

I don't feel like I can really "grab" a reader, or give them an experience that leaves them with the "just finished a book blues." I don't feel like there's any "point" to reading a particular story I, specifically, wrote versus any number of other stories out there on the shelves. I'm not sure "why" I'm writing these things beyond just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." idea that pops into my head. Like, I'm not trying to change the world with some ground-shaking philosophy or anything, but I feel like there needs to be some kind of strong message that serves as a kind of glue to really make everything else in the story fit together.

Has anybody else experienced this struggle, or gotten past it? Those of you who have successfully published your writing, or at least finished a draft or two, do you have any advice? Anyone else feel free to chime in of course, but I'd be especially interested to hear from those who have become "pros," in a sense.

@Zeroth

Hi @Zeroth.

I'll start by saying that all the doubts and fears you experience are rather common for writers, or any type of artist for that matter. If every writer who encountered these struggles decided not to continue their story, there wouldn't be many books on the bookstore shelf. What you feel is natural, and we are all our own biggest critic. As for plots, they don't need to be fully developed before you start. Sometimes, it takes writing to have the plot fall into place.

From someone who has had their work published, I can tell you it's okay to restart, restart again, to angst over your story, its characters, to want to do better. Even in the reading of your own work, you can only speak for yourself when it comes to what is liked and not liked. In my own opinion, the best thing you can do is really enjoy the journey, the story, for I firmly believe that the best stories out there were written by those who truly loved writing them. Throw what others might think to the wind, and just love what you do. Love your story. Love your characters.

For me, if after a session I feel like I'm waking up from some surreal dream, then I know I've done well.

It's easy to say, "don't have doubts", but we both know they will come when they do. I think you should just breathe into your work. Give it life. Give it your heart. Don't hold back a single thing. Become a part of it and punch it out. Then, your best will come. No regrets. Clean it up later.

Don't stop. Keep going.

[Zeroth]

@Charley Thank you, I really appreciate the encouragement! I really love the way you worded that feeling, "like waking up from a surreal dream," and I can definitely understand that sense of an immersive trance when I've got a good flow going.

But, if you'll forgive me, I think I'm still searching for something that's a little more..."concrete?" I feel like I understand your advice to some degree: "I should finish the draft, and once it's fully fleshed out on the paper I can look back and see what themes have emerged out of it. Then I can rewrite and edit while solidifying that theme and connecting the different parts of the story to it. But I've got to buckle down and slog through the writing first and have a full story on the page."

However, I'm still left trying to figure out how to try and entice a reader to "care" about what's going on within the story. I've had others tell me "make your main characters suffer," and "use strong emotional language, because people can't always relate to a fictional scenario, but everyone remembers feeling a strong emotion like anger." But is there anything else at all that might keep a reader from deciding, "I don't really care enough to see how this ends" and putting the book down?

I know some people just aren't going to like my books just like there are certain authors I don't like reading, but I guess I'm just trying to make sure everything I'm doing is "structurally sound," I guess? Like, eliminate all the logical reasons someone wouldn't like a story that aren't purely based on personal preference. If they read it and decide "this isn't my cup of tea," I still want to do everything I can to see that they finish it in the first place in order to make that informed decision.

[Charley]

@Zeroth

You're welcome, and there's nothing to forgive you for. I understand.

While I was reading your reply, I was reminded of a story I once heard about Stephen King. Now, it doesn't matter if you don't like the guy, the writer, or enjoy his books. Hell, you don't even have to respect him. But the fact of the matter is that he is one of our worlds most accomplished authors, and since he has become a household name, I figured I'd use him as an example. What you may not know is that King struggled with what you are going through with his first novel "Carrie". I didn't do a lot of research to refresh my memory of what King thought of his first book, so a quote from Wiki will have to do for now: "King believed Carrie would not be successful, thinking it would not be marketable in any genre or to any audience."

Here is the full extract

King believed Carrie would not be successful, thinking it would not be marketable in any genre or to any audience. He also found writing it to be a "waste of time" and found no point in sending out what he perceived as a failed story. King only continued writing it in order to please his wife and because he was unable to think of anything else to write. When King finished the first draft, Carrie was a 98-page-long novella that he detested. In December 1972, King decided to rewrite Carrie and strive for it to become novel-length. He wrote in fabricated documents that were purported to be from periodicals such as Esquire and Reader's Digest, imitating their style accordingly; a process that King found entertaining. After Carrie was accepted by the publisher Doubleday, King revised the novel with editor and friend Bill Thompson. The original ending of Carrie had Carrie growing demon horns and destroying an airplane thousands of miles above her. Thompson convinced King to rewrite the ending to be more subtle.

It is easy to understand why King thought maybe people wouldn't care about Carrie, or why she wouldn't be relatable, especially back in the earlier 1970's. A schoolgirl with superpowers? Please.... But now, look at what entertainment around the world has become.

In my own first book, I antagonized over whether my characters would be acceptable and appreciated. I worried about whether my plot would suffice. At one point, I destroyed an entire first draft out of fear of failure. But no amount of worrying helped. Eventually, I ended up rewriting what I had destroyed almost to the letter. Despite my concerns, it got published. It took the advice of a long-lost friend to get me over it. And I quote her now: "Just write your story. It's YOUR story." She even used a severe, angry tone, which made me pout. I guess she was fed up with my complaining and worrying. Bless her heart. But it did the trick.

Unfortunately, Zeroth, finding something more concrete to set your concerns at ease may not happen. What I was trying to say in my first reply, is that no one can tell you how to write your characters or devise your plot, or even what language to use. It won't matter how much you antagonize yourself over what others might think or how they might feel about these aspects because, no matter what you do, you can never please everyone, and you can never be guaranteed to please the most people that you can please, either. Write your story. It is your story. Remember, we are all made of the same stuff. So, put your heart into it. Put everything you have into it, and don't hold back. By doing so, your characters - no matter who or what they are - will affect the reader, they will care, and maybe in ways you had never imagined.

Write your story and mean it.

[mickilennial]

I think I only ever found myself overcoming this when I started writing for me and not trying to write "the next great american novel" or write for hypothetical other people. If you are confident about your work, the audience will come, however small. Mind you, I have since given up on the goal of publishing as my goal in life and changed it to "finish a solo work" (see: novel, webnovel, etc.) but doing so has taken a great weight off my shoulders.

The first step is confidence, initiative and self-assurance.

[ERode]

Maybe pointless rambling

When it comes down to it, there's no logical method or technique that would make all readers care more or less about what's happening in the story. There's general advice out there that's useful, such as the whole 'start as close to the end as possible' or 'kill your darlings', but when it comes down to it, it's generally going to be a shot in the dark. Badly written and poorly plotted novels get published and become popular all the time, from amateur novelists nonetheless. And unless you posted serialized fiction or doing booktok hijinks to drum up interest by posting excerpts, it's not really possible to get a grasp on exactly what the audience reaction would be.

Basically, it's the kinda situation where it's like: "Yeah, just write what you want, for something you're passionate about, and the audience will naturally come."

That being said, the latter half of that statement could be considered. Narrow who you want your audience to be, figure out what they're into, and then adjust your writing and plotting to align with that audience. Could be adjustments like "litRPG people like seeing game systems embedded into writing, so I'll generate numbers to go alongside the magic system" or "isekai people generally enjoy the sense of escapism and power, so better to keep things breezy and not maintain infinite suffering cycles". Of course, the further you are from your own audience, the more artificial or corporate your attempts at appealing to them would become, which is why genre writing kinda just pops up from people who're into that stuff to begin with...so once again, "something you're passionate about".

Man, what the fuck was even the point of writing all that?

Anyways, don't get caught up in the whole "my story doesn't have themes" trap. Don't overthink in terms of there needing to be a strong message either, because what you think is 'cool' would end up forming a message either way (which would be very telling as to who you are as a person, for better or worse). On some occasions, people have written stories with a strong, intentional message, but those people are writing those stories to get the message out, not to necessarily grab a reader.

In any case, I'd recommend self-publishing on whatever site you're interested in. Off the top of my head, there's Wattpad/WebNovel, RoyalRoad, Honeyfeed, etc. Toss your writing out into chunks; you'll get readers. Some of them might even comment, whether positive or negative. It'd be a real response though. Writing's an inherently lonely activity (which is why we're RPing instead), so stuff like that might help. I used to self-publish on Wattpad myself, and even if I never ended up finishing that story, the comments I got sustained me in a way that just writing cool things didn't.

Kinda like different types of nourishment, perhaps.

[Zeroth]

@Charley You're right lol, I'm not a big fan of King as a person, and some of his stories have rubbed me the wrong way. But I've definitely taken cues from him in the past simply because, even without his coke-binging, the man still produces a book every 3 to 6 months like clockwork.

But that excerpt was very reassuring, and makes me feel a lot better about the struggle! Thank you again!

@mickilennial I agree with this completely! Like I pointed out in the OP, I know I'm not going to make some big "paradigm shattering" masterpiece that changes the world or starts some kind of movement (and given history's track record with that thing, I definitely have no desire to ever do so). Thank you for your encouragement! I share your view in that I've been trying to break things down to "just get it done," whether that's one short story, one chapter, or some days even just one paragraph at a time.

@ERode I did read the rambling, so there was a point to it! Yeah, self-publishing/serializing on something like Royal Road is one of my goals at the moment, I've been trying to keep myself on track towards building a large enough buffer that I wouldn't be struggling to get chapters out on a regular basis. And yes, I'm certainly trying to avoid being "preachy" or letting the message overcome the story. Thank you for your help!