Gat said
Hatred, no. Contempt maybe.Let me ask you a related question mate; Are you Pro-Abortion?If the answer is yes then I suppose I see where you're coming from, you simply don't place the same value on life as Kad any myself. Life is the most precious 'commodity' so to speak on the planet because one its ended you can never get it back.
I'm Pro-Life. I take that stance cause I don't think it's right for a mother to end the life of their child. A child is who when the topic of abortion comes up never has a say in the matter.
Now there are a ton of counter argument's to that which were all highlighted to me in the Abortion & Feminism thread's and I agreed that I couldn't argue with or disprove them. But that's a different topic for those respective threads.
Suicide however, is when the individual whose life is being lost is the one making the choice. Not another person making the choice because the person being alive is an inconvenience to them.
Gat said
As has also been stated in the thread many times, the majority of suicides never try to seek help, they keep it all bottled up until they snap and off themselves. Oh sure others have brought up that they cant get help becuase parents etc don't want to hear that the person wants to commit suicide etc. but lets be frank here, how many parents want their children to die before they do, thats simple parental instinct. Despite that, at least here in the western world there are numerous options beyond parents one can seek help from.
Most parent's do not, you are correct there. But this is also assuming all parent's accept and treat depression and the want to kill one self as actual medical conditions, rather than simply being something selfish that people can simply 'snap out of'. Many parents have proven to be the kind who simply treat suicide as a selfish act and/or see depression as something that people can just snap out of. So many parents will deny help to their child up to the point the child kills themselves, simply because the parent is not treating it as the serious issue that it is.
In terms of not seeking other ways of help, we have to remember part of depression is feeling hopeless. Some of those symptoms could be not seeing the use in getting help, or in some cases denying their's a problem to begin with. Especially if those people either:
a) Were/are a very strong and independent kind of person
b) Were hurt in the past by someone using depression as an excuse, and becomes reluctant to admit to having the same thing
c) Was simply raised to see things as Depression as something you can 'snap out of' or is selfish.
-We know a ton of communities and people are still like that, it's one of the main reasons Depression often isn't treated with the same priority as physical conditions.
Now, do I personally agree with the individual not seeking help? No, I think everyone should be looking for help when in such a situation.
But it's not something I'm going to call them selfish for, or speak ill of them once their gone if they don't do it.
Gat said
Another clarification. not all suicides are the result of depression, in addition not all supposed depression is actually a medical condition. If you had actually read the thread btw you would see that both Kad and myself agree that euthanasia is acceptable for severe quality of life effecting illnesses and conditions. Neither of us see even clinical depression as qualifying for that because you can medicate it just fine and the person can live a normal life.
Obviously, but in this situation the topic had been focused on suicides as a result of Depression. So I addressing it as strictly on that stance.
Also, I am
very well aware that people will self-diagnose themselves with depression and do not actually have it, simply using it as an excuse for their actions and as a result hurt those that care for them and everyone who actually do suffer from depression. But if you are the point you are killing yourself, you are either saving someone or something you value every highly or you are not mentally stable. Something has happened to either make you see depression as a positive thing, or your life is simply so bad that suicide is the lesser of two evils.
May you both agree with euthanasia is acceptable or not though (which is something we agree on), is irrelevant to this topic. This topic is more on seeing Depression as something to qualify for that, where you two seem to take the stance of never. While I take the stance of it can be depending on the individual and the severity of it.
