Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Jannah said
I try to appear more moderate for the same reasons, but it's hard, especially considering how much my family and I have been screwed over by the system. It's really quite a sensitive issue for me though so it's not something I feel like discussing publicly for fear of it turning into a debate. It's not an issue I can compromise on so I think it's better for everybody if it doesn't come up at all.


My advice: Don't worry about trying to look moderate. Someone will disagree with something you say and nothing will prevent that, so don't give ground. Stand up for what you think. The only thing worse than fighting for your beliefs, is NOT fighting for them (this is a total capitalist talking to a proclaimed commie, so you know I mean it).
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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Ok then.

DEATH TO CAPITALISTS. DEATH TO THE BOURGEOISE. DEATH TO THE SCOIAL ELITE. DESTROY THE CORPORATIONS. DESTROY RELGION.

phew, good to get that out of my system
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Vortex, you're Australian, right? You are the bourgeoise.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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mdk said (this is a total capitalist talking to a proclaimed commie, so you know I mean it).


Vortex said
Ok then.DEATH TO CAPITALISTS.




heh. Sorry. I have to appreciate humor when it happens. It's a condition.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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The Nexerus said
Vortex, you're Australian, right? You the bourgeoise.


That's like saying all bugs are insects (which they are not), just because I live in a undeniably privileged country does not mean I am automatically part of the bourgeoise or get the perks associated with them. Yes I am better off than most people in the world but compared to the real bourgeoise I am but a humble peasant.

mdk said
heh. Sorry. I have to appreciate humor when it happens. It's a condition.


Yeah, i was wondering if you would mention that lol. Btw what do you think of communism? Are you the sort that thinks it good in theory but not in practice? or the don't-even-say-that-word-near-me sort?
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Vortex said
That's like saying all bugs are insects (which they are not), just because I live in a undeniably privileged country does not mean I am automatically part of the bourgeoise or get the perks associated with them. Yes I am better off than most people in the world but compared to the real bourgeoise I am but a humble peasant.Yeah, i was wondering if you would mention that lol. Btw what do you think of communism? Are you the sort that thinks it good in theory but not in practice? or the don't-even-say-that-word-near-me sort?


Countries aren't privileged or not privileged. Australia is the country that it is today because of the people who created and moulded it, just like every other country.

My point is that if everyone was reduced to the same economic status, you'd be one of the people losing.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by mdk
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Vortex said
That's like saying all bugs are insects (which they are not), just because I live in a undeniably privileged country does not mean I am automatically part of the bourgeoise or get the perks associated with them. Yes I am better off than most people in the world but compared to the real bourgeoise I am but a humble peasant.Yeah, i was wondering if you would mention that lol. Btw what do you think of communism? Are you the sort that thinks it good in theory but not in practice? or the don't-even-say-that-word-near-me sort?


Let the record state, I am being asked for an honest opinion. I'll be gentle.

There are two intrinsically different brands of communist (talking about people). There is the 'Old Country' Communist, the one who's lived under Broseph Stalin and still thinks 'hey, we had a pretty good idea going here.' Then there's your google-scholar communist, whose experience with communism -- while dutifully researched -- is nevertheless academic. This what the book says -- THAT country is doing it wrong, they're not communists, WHY are there no more communists like me? These are my two fundamental Commy groups -- the people who read about it and the people who lived it. As our dubious fortunes would have it, you CAN get real communist experience right here in the US of A (trust me, I'm in the VA healthcare system).

So, those being your 'two types,' here's my responses. To the "I've lived it," sort, I like to calmly sit down and ask them questions. If this communist wants debate, I'll usually oblige out of a mutual respect type thing, but neither of us are getting far by arguing -- he's not convincing me nor I him, so for the most part we just have pleasant exchanges and talk about football.

To the bookish type, these are the folks I want to debate with (civilly, of course), because they are getting it out of a book. Which, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, shit, I'm Christian, I get a lot of really important foundations from a pretty old book. What matters is the practical application, which is something the booky folks generally aren't well-schooled on. How could they be? They're fresh out of college, if they're lucky, probably not even that. They've had no chance to go get into the real world and see real programs, and the real life cycles of nationalizations and all that good ol' Ayn Rand bureaubullshit. I want to insert myself into this process, if possible, and offer a perspective that maybe they're not predisposed to seeing. When they leave me they're still commies, but they're commies with a seed planted in the back of their mind, which should grow as they see the world, and ultimately the become proto-communist mutants, with leaf powers and they can fly or something.

What am I even talking about.

Okay.

Commies and me, we have some pretty fundamental disagreements, and politically speaking, I guess we're not going to be best friends. That's cool. Politics is *remarkably pointless* anyway. I have one roommate at present who forwards all of ""those"" chain-emails about Obama. You know exactly the kind I'm talking about. My **other** roommate only drinks cruelty-free coffee, wears a green bandanna (for the earth, I shit you not, it's 'for the earth.'), and then you've got me, resident crippled know-it-all asshole anarcho-capitalist bible thumper. We hang out all the time and have fun. This stuff does ***NOOOOOOT***** have to be treated like it's a big deal. It's totally not a big deal.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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The Nexerus said
Countries aren't privileged or not privileged. Australia is the country that it is today because of the people who created and moulded it, just like every other country.My point is that if everyone was reduced to the same economic status, you'd be one of the people losing.


Firstly all countries are privileged or not, there's a reason they call Australia "the lucky country" and when you compare Aus and the states to idk a place like Somalia for instance, it is clear who is privileged. In places that had colonisation from Europeans, again I will go with Somalia, the Europeans immediately began exploiting the reasources and enslaving the people there , not caring for the country or her people, so it's not fair to say that the true natives f Somalia shaped their history when most (of modern history) of it has been in white hands.

If everyone is reduced to the same economic status that's fine with me for no one will be winning but non shall be losing we will all be in the same boat.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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mdk said
ultimately the become proto-communist mutants, with leaf powers and they can fly or something.


That... I would not mind
mdk said
Commies and me, we have some pretty fundamental disagreements, and politically speaking, I guess we're not going to be best friends. That's cool. Politics is *remarkably pointless* anyway. I have one roommate at present who forwards all of ""those"" chain-emails about Obama. You know exactly the kind I'm talking about. My **other** roommate only drinks cruelty-free coffee, wears a green bandanna (for the earth, I shit you not, it's 'for the earth.'), and then you've got me, resident crippled know-it-all asshole anarcho-capitalist bible thumper. We hang out all the time and have fun. This stuff does ***NOOOOOOT***** have to be treated like it's a big deal. It's totally not a big deal.


Good to hear you don't rage quit like all, the other capitalists I spar with. By the way since I am the cant-stop-googling-ideologies-sort I would not mind at all if we had a little debat.
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mdk said
My advice: Don't worry about trying to look moderate. Someone will disagree with something you say and nothing will prevent that, so don't give ground. Stand up for what you think. The only thing worse than fighting for your beliefs, is NOT fighting for them (this is a total capitalist talking to a proclaimed commie, so you know I mean it).


Well I am open about it in some places, for the most part. I'm more so referring to the professional risks it can pose. It's not unheard of to get fired from a job for being a communist. However, because nobody will hire me and I've been unemployed for years it's not really something I worry about right now. When and if I finally get a job again then it's something I'll need to be careful with.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Vortex
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Thank god you have to actually have a good reason to fire someone in Australia.

Jannah said
It's not unheard of to get fired from a job for being a communist.


Capitalism at work
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Vortex said
Thank god you have to actually have a good reason to fire someone in Australia. Capitalism at work


The last job I had I lost for pretty bullshit reasons. Apparently I wasn't useful to them. Well shit, I'm not going to be useful if you don't train me. Every day I was there all they had me doing was the same thing instead of teaching me new stuff.
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May I ask what job you were doing?
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Jannah
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Vortex said
May I ask what job you were doing?


I was working in a fast food place and all they had me doing was cooking fries the whole time. To be fair though, I have aspergers which does impair my motor skills, but still. Wtf? If they didn't think I was fit to work there they could have told me up-front instead of keeping me in the dark.
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Agreed.

If we were in a communist world you would have a job that requires your [insert skill here] or at least never have been fired or at the VERY least would have a job by now.
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Agreed.If we were in a communist world you would have a job that requires your [insert skill here] or at least never have been fired or at the VERY least would have a job by now.


Only skill I have that could really be worth anything is my creative writing skills. I literally have nothing, which is likely why nobody will hire me.
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Well that is a useful skill. Not everyone has the skill to put their thoughts and ideas into words. Not everyone has the creativity to write a novel. Not everyone has the intelligence. I think however, that you posses the ability to write well, and in a communist society, hey who knows? You may be a best seller.
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Vortex said
Well that is a useful skill. Not everyone has the skill to put their thoughts and ideas into words. Not everyone has the creativity to write a novel. Not everyone has the intelligence. I think however, that you posses the ability to write well, and in a communist society, hey who knows? You may be a best seller.


It's not useful to minimum wage employers and that's all I'm qualified for. Education is out of the question since without a job I have no way to pay for that. Loans are also not an option for the same reason. Besides, it's vomit worthy to me that young people have to start out their lives thousands of dollars in debt.
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Capitalism: Freedom to have whatever job you choose... So long as you can pay for it.

So, basically what your saying is you are in a never ending cycle.
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Vortex said
Capitalism: Freedom to have whatever job you choose... So long as you can pay for it.So, basically what your saying is you are in a never ending cycle.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Coming from an impoverished background just makes matters worse.
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