[OOC] Across Broken Skies [Ace Combat inspired RP]

[Skythikon]

See those stuff under the wings? Those are the hardpoints. Image shown in a MiG-29 with the six hardpoints. The upgraded version, the MiG-35, has an additional two.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! =D I still have all my notes from school, so I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

@Rafale: Yeah, the MiG-29's going to be pretty much the standard issue aircraft of our squadron. =\ I wish the Su-27 was available, since it was introduced just two years after the MiG-29 and it's maiden flight was only a few months after the MiG-29.

[Damo021]

Ah so many CS to read lol! And some one beat me to the Japanese pilot. time to read and see how the epic squad is coming together :)

[nautilusmp]

Thanks for your assistance, Skythikon. I think I'll have more, but I'm in a second-order lack of knowledge: I don't know what I don't know.

And the MiG-29 was arguably the best aircraft in the list of starter aircrafts, anyway, hence why many people fly one :( . And if the MiG-29 is there, someone can make a point that aircrafts before it should be there as well. That includes... the F-15 and the F-16 (earlier models, at least).

[Winter]

Driving Park said
My CS is almost done! :DIf she was born in 1991 she would be 22 or 23.Ah, that makes sense. Though, I've since replaced the R-15s with thrust-vectored D30-F6s from the MiG-31 as Silver suggested, since they are more reliable and much better at low altitude flying.

No she wouldn't, because our current date IC is 2018.

[Skythikon]

No problem at all. =) Just ask away here or through PMs when you feel the need to.

I wouldn't say the best, but it is up there. The MiG-29 was designed as a multirole, so it's sort of like the jack-of-all-trades. The Su-25 is arguable the best for ground attack; low speed, wide wings and a heavy load? That thing is going to pulverize anything on the ground into scrap metal, but it's easy prey for fighters. The MiG-23 and 25 are awesome interceptors; they'll catch anything that's flying with their Mach 3+ speed, but they have a lower range due to their fuel consumption, and their engines degrade at a comparatively higher rate.

Guess all I'm saying is that the MiG-29 looks to be the best right now simply because we don't know what's going to be thrown at us, but in missions that require specialization, it'll be the dedicated interceptors, ground attack, electronic warfare or fighters that will shine. The MiG-29 and other multiroles simply have adaptability on their side.

[Slypheed]

Rafale said
MiG-29 dominance much? My little Kitty's gonna feel like the odd one out!

Dun worry, I'm practically flying the only bomber, so you won't be the only odd one out.

[Rafale]

I have no problem with people flying the MiG-29 as it is a great aircraft, but there is something that bugs me about it in this RP.
The thing that is bothering me about the MiG-29 is that a lot of the characters flying it in this RP just don't make sense to me. Let's take a look at all the submitted characters, their nationalities and chosen planes;

-Ariella Yosef makes perfect sense, as she is in the IAF and the Kfir is Iraeli.
-Vlad makes sense, as he is a Russian and the MiG-29 is a Soviet/Russian plane and he would thus have the possibility of training in it.
-Mathew Tailor makes sense in a way, as he flew with the RAF for a period of time.
-While I am a huge fan of the Balalaika, a French Canadian/Swiss pilot flying it doesn't make much sense in my eyes, as neither of those nations fly the MiG-21 and if he flew a F-16 and a Harrier, both western, more modern designs, why would he be suddenly downgraded to a Fishbed?
-The Tessaros could potentially make sense as the F-111 is a western design and they're Italian and in the end Italy doesn't have many 3rd or 4th generation aircraft and they've flown for the longest time with the UNF, so I let it slide in my mind.
-My own character, Nathan Attar, does have a correct aircraft for his nationality, as the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) has flown the plane for many years and a modified plane wouldn't be out of the question if he deserted.
-Rose flying a Harrier and is a Brit, so nothing to say there.
-Indonesia flies a few F-5's, so the F-20 wouldn't be out of the question at all.
-Now here's where I am primarily quite bothered, and I mean no offense to RPC at all, but why would two USAF pilots fly the Russian MiG-29? It just doesn't have any background regarding why American pilots would be flying an ex-Soviet plane either.
-I was initially going to complain about Ohira, but then I read the bio and it is explained why she flies the MiG-25, so I'm pretty much fine with it.
-Everett has apparently flown with other MiG-29 pilots so it seems alright, and Slovakia flies the MiG-29, so all is good there.

It's for these reasons why I think there should definitely be the F-16 as an option, particularly for those who's origins would go better with it. We have the MiG-29 and the F-14 as options and the F-16 was produced in huge amounts so I think it would be alright if we had the plane.
And to add to this, it's practically the same problem you mentioned here, Silver;

Silverwind Blade said Hey, Blade! Where's My F-22/Flanker/T-50/JSF/etc?!

While they are all very cool aircraft, I'm deliberately avoiding allowing players to use any of the most modern aircraft - only the aircraft from the OP on the OOC thread are available for beginning players. You may well get the chance to upgrade to something more modern down the line, but it's part of the storyline and background that more modern aircraft are currently out of reach, and older aircraft with modifications to make them more competitive are where we're starting out.

I mainly did this to avoid the 'same old aircraft' being picked - when I've tried to run other games like this, I've just ended up with a handful of F-22's, Flanker variants, and a couple of reluctant F-15 or -16 pilots, rather than anything imaginative, different or exciting (and then inevitable tremendous flame-wars about which is 'better' the F-22 or the T-50 or Flanker family).
I was kind of hoping to inspire a bit of interest in something different, rather than just seeing the same things wheeled out again and again, and to make people consider and look at some of the 'older' generations of aircraft with a new eye for appreciation of what they could do, given a bit of modern technology injected into them.

And instead of F-22's and Flankers, we have a bunch of MiG's and reluctant pilots of anything else...
Just my two cents though.

[Slypheed]

Rafale said And instead of F-22's and Flankers, we have a bunch of MiG's and reluctant pilots of anything else...Just my two cents though.

I feel the same actually. Feel like this is a "MIG or death" type of atmosphere. Plus I feel like the MIG pilots may not talk to anyone who isn't flying a MIG and the reluctant characters will have to converse amongst themselves. (I.E. cliched) Like the MIGs are the cool kids, and everyone else is lame.

Tis just my own two cents though.

[Damo021]

you reading that made me think more of how my character would end up with a Swedish multi role fighter when she is not Swedish. I thought that through lack of available craft, the UN had to issue what they could to pilots which in some cases might not always be from there own country? I think some countries would have suffered more than others from the events and following attacks by the new enemy.

[Rafale]

The Draken was flown by four different air forces, so you have up to four nationalities you can choose from.
Remember, the story is about the character, not the plane. Just look at games like Ace Combat; if we take the canon plane of the Razgriz, for example, their F-5E's and F-14A's pale in comparison to many of the things they face, but they become feared as some of the greatest pilots in their world nonetheless. A man becomes an ace because of their own skills, not their plane. Ever heard of the Rafale that "shot down" the apparently superior F-22 in a training exercise and the same for the Typhoon's (even though the broke ROE, but we'll forget about that for a moment)? That's a great pilot, not because of his plane, but because of the pilot.

[Skythikon]

IMO, Flankers should be fine, but only the early versions, 'cause the MiG-29 and early Su-27 were pretty much on equal ground. The F-16 should be allowed as well, seeing as how it's not nearly as 'new' as either. Nationality-wise, I don't see a problem if your character isn't flying an aircraft that doesn't match up with their nationality. I was under the impression that this was a (albeit elite) cobbled together unit given whatever planes they had to spare, thus the emphasis on Gen 3 - Gen 4 aircraft.

Anyway, I added my second character to my initial post. For what it's worth, she's a ground-attack pilot specializing in SEAD flying the AMX International AMX (Brazilian variant)

EDIT: Yeah, definitely head of the Rafale that shot down the F-22. I heard of stuff such as Singaporean F-16s defeating USAF F-15s simply because the USAF pilots had been listening on RSAF comms throughout the exercise, and when our pilots switched to our mangled form of English known as Singlish, they got confused.

EDIT2: And to clarify, I had Everett take the MiG because it would be what was most familiar after having flown the Shenyang J-11, which is a copy of the Su-27. If I could, I would have had Everett fly an upgraded Su-27M or Su-27S

[Mateotis]

Just noticed that the listing of Matthew on the main page in "Active Characters" is slighty borked. A [/*] should be enough to solve it. :)

OT: My character is not reluctant at all to fly a Jaguar, I don't really know how the MiG-29 can be that much better than all the other aircraft listed in the OP. But again, that could just be my lack of knowledge on the field.

[Skythikon]

Like I said, it's not because the MiG-29 is better, it's because it's flexible. As a multirole, it can be kitted out for anything from air interception to ground attack. However, it lacks the traits that make planes specially made for those purposes, such as the MiG-25's speed and the Su-25's low speed stability and high number of hardpoints. It only seems better right now because the RP hasn't started yet and I imagine most want to play it safe.

I imagine that there will be a lot of times during this RP when I go 'Gee, I sorta wish I picked the Su-25/MiG-25.' XD

[Driving Park]

Unless every mission is catered to a specific plane or if Silver is a wizard of mission-making and makes every type of plane here vital to each mission, at some point the dedicated aircraft like the MiG- and Su-25s will be out of their element doing things their airframe wasn't meant for (hence why I tried to make my Foxbat semi-competent at low speed engagements), which is why the multirole makes sense. Not every mission will be a ground assault or a long range interception. I picked the 25 because I love it and not because it's a MiG. Otherwise I would have strongly considered one of the underdog jets like a heavily modified Alpha Jet or something.

Winter said
No she wouldn't, because our current date IC is 2018.

Oops! Called out. I totally forgot. My bad!

And sorry for beating you to the Japanese pilot, Damo. :P We can always have two!

[Damo021]

Well I am working on a new nationality and style of character now from my last plan of a Japanese, Mainly because I came up with a new idea I like and think will add diversity to the cast we already have, my aircraft choice will stay the same as I am going along with what Rafale said 'the story is about the character, Not the plane' :)

[Rhona W]

I'm not convinced that half the reason that there are all the Fulcrums is because of the current attitude of 'Russia, Fuck yeah!', and that for some reason there's a movement among a lot of people that Russia and it's military technology are somehow underrated and 'amazing' compared to everyone elses' stuff. Not that I'm saying they're not more than adequate, or even exemplary.

I also think that it's because the MiG-29 is the only aircraft on the list that a lot of people will have heard of, and rather than looking into any of the others, people have just gone for the only one they know anything about, and the one that's the most 'modern' and relevant to their knowledge, rather than looking up on the capabilities of any of the others.

Really, Rafale made the best point (because he's awesome):

Remember, the story is about the character, not the plane. Just look at games like Ace Combat; if we take the canon plane of the Razgriz, for example, their F-5E's and F-14A's pale in comparison to many of the things they face, but they become feared as some of the greatest pilots in their world nonetheless. A man becomes an ace because of their own skills, not their plane

Mateotis said
Just noticed that the listing of Matthew on the main page in "Active Characters" is slighty borked. A [/*] should be enough to solve it. :)OT: My character is not reluctant to fly a Jaguar, I don't really know how the MiG-29 can be that much better than all the other aircraft listed in the OP. But again, that could just be my lack of knowledge on the field.

I'll edit that so it's sorted, thanks for pointing it out.
And yeah, my character loves her plane, and I look forward to putting it into action as well. I don't see how it's going to slow me down or be anything but a great plane, and the same for anything else on that list.

As it is, I suppose I can reluctantly throw the F-16 and SU-27 into the OP list and remove a couple of other things, since there seems to be a desire to have them in there, despite the vast array of other aircraft to choose from.

[Damo021]

I personally think there is already a great cast of planes, In fact I have learned more from them and some I did not realized where around to the normal one's I have seen or heard of and I have picked up a great liking to the draken which funnily enough until this RP I did not know existed. Thank god for the wiki, despite the changes I am making this might delay my CS a little as I'm reworking it from my original character plan which I hope is okay Silver? just doing more wiki research on a few more things before going nuts on plane research once my character is sorted and just hope it will be worth the wait for you guys :)

[Driving Park]

The easiest way to fix it would just be to remove the 29. :P

[nautilusmp]

Speaking of Americans operating Fulcrums here, the US did buy Fulcrums at one point in time. Where are those aircrafts now, just out of curiousity?

[Damo021]

Driving Park said
And sorry for beating you to the Japanese pilot, Damo. :P We can always have two!

Sorry driving park I just saw your post here lol. I have since set my mind on something I like the idea of in my head to add to diversity to the cast of character although two japanese would of been fun! But don't panic or worry you have nothing to apologise for beside having one Japanese character will add to your character uniqueness so it's all good :)