[OOC] Colonial Powers NRP (Reboot/New Thread)

[darkwolf687]

Oh dear, two already large nations uniting into one. Well, I'm going to step up trade with my other partners so I won't be impacted by the inevitable civil war, considering the Lance Empires already diverse composition. XD

[Iluvatar]

Pretty sure war will break out soon. Hopefully, Lydiah won't be too involved, although we do have to support the Lance Empire due to the terms of our agreement.

[darkwolf687]

Actually, you won't. That term would be rendered void because the Lance Empire doesn't exist anymore, and also because I am referring to a collapse of their New Germania. That is, Lance 'Loyalists' vs 'Numburg Loyalists' vs 'Unionst' Vs other political leanings Vs Numburgs Political/Economic Elite (They are run in a vastly different manner to the Lance, and won't want to risk their power) Vs Lance Royalists vs various Lance ethnicities (His lands are vast and made up of many people, many of which probably won't like getting referred to as under a completely new and dominant title that they might not even be part of)

If you would still want to help in that conflict, which Lance would you be helping haha.

Then again this is hypothetical, Gowia might let them off without a hitch... But given how they are only slightly stable, have vastly different policies and political systems as well as likely having social differences (They have been apart for a long time, whether they stem from the same culture or not they are all likely different. Many European languages stem from Latin, they sound nothing alike, and the same goes for their cultures) we will likely be seeing a break down.

Which means their colonies might end up for grabs, though the news would take a long time to spread. Their homelands would be susceptible to invasion though. Expect a dramatic power shift, and I myself expect a boost in status as a result of the sudden power void, I already have the largest and most powerful navy, I just need to push up my economy and military and with the Lance Military no longer being available as substitute for my own, I will need to establish a fine military quickly, justifying a rapid change in policies which most of my people will then see the logic behind given the new situation and thus hopefully avoid any internal troubles

[null123]

To bad a majority of people in the Lance Empire are brainwashed into doing what the Emperor wants, and it has always been a dream of the Lance Empire to unite all Germanics under one banner. Numburg Loyalist might be a problem, but nothing that can't be put down. The Slavics in the east also might cause trouble, but the Germans outnumber then and a majority of the army is German.

Oh and part of the switch was that the UGF would agree to uphold all treaties the Lance Empire and Numburg had made. You still get your stuff Illuvatar.

[darkwolf687]

Yes, but he hasn't agreed to that. I was telling him he could weasle his way out of dealing with your war at great cost to himself

And this is 1700. You know how much brainwashing was done back then, how effective it was etc? Yeah, good luck. Not to mention, if your lands are vast and made up of many peoples, you are forgetting that most probably aren't Germanic. The Empire trait isn't just positive, it carries negatives. You are made up of many peoples, not just Germans and Slavs. Also, are all your soldiers going to like shooting each other, their families and friends and countrymen?
And Numburg is running on an entirely different political system. I cant imagine many people in Numburg, their navy, army or people suddenly being fine with an emperor and an entirely new system. Also, given that corporations rule numburg, many of them wont want any risk to their power. In other words, expect an uprising of powerful and rich companies. Likewise, I cant imagine the Lance royalists would be fine with dropping the Emperor just for unity, and even trying to reach a compromise between the two would be incredibly hard and obviously there would still be resistance. You still haven't addressed your loyalists. Lance loyalists would still be a problem, by this I am referring to your nationalists and the sorts. They will, even if they believe in the deal, like their nation to be disproportionately in charge, meaning they will want the other under their thumb and their own flag to be flown over the others lands instead of a new flag.
Then you will have inevitable resistance. Obviously you cant have two competing command structures, two competing institutions etc, so people will likely end up laid off, reassigned or merged with others, resulting in discontent in your own government. The supreme leader of both armies wouldn't like the idea of the other replacing him..

Tl:dr
There will be violence, every unification in history that I can recall has involved, the exception being the Anschluss, but those were two down trodden, small countries and not two successful, large countries (And certainly neither was an Empire any longer) Yours will just be on a massive scale because rather than the usual scenario with two small countries joining, you're two massive countries, one of which already has many countries within jt.

[null123]

Slavs is a general term for many ethnic groups, and the slavs do outnumber the Germans, but most slavs at this point due to rape and other reasons have some germanic blood and the army is mostly German. The slavs are divided up into Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, and Bosniaks. That is a lot of different peoples.

And the Emperor, or since were German, Kaiser, would still rule. It would be a constitutional monarchy with a national congress. That congress would have 201 seats, with the election districts be divided up by population. The Lance Empire would still dominate as they have a majority of the seats on the national congress. Plus the UGF would be a bit like the UK. A country of countries. There would a Regler that would report to the Emperor, National Congress, and Prime Minister. Each constituent would also have its own congress, so a way to calm down rebellions in the east would to be divide up into its own constituents.

The corporation ruling Numburg would gain many more benefits. While they wouldn't be able to operate in the Lance Empire at first they get special privileges and be able to operate at a wider area. As well as take up a few Government trading companies, and get some special privileges in the colonies.

[darkwolf687]

So you are proposing to the companies that they give up their hold on a country to let it become a democracy which will then proceed to make them into a glorified international company? They gain what from this exactly? The answer is nothing, they lose more than they gain, they simply wont have it, its terrible business.

So now you've admitted there are more Slavs than Germans. See? You cant call it a Germanic union, then try to make a democracy when the majority of the lance aren't Germanic. They wont have that, even with what little German blood they have (Since you have mentioned there was rape involved, this has become even worse xD). Sure, you'll be secure as they will get no where because they will be squabbling, but even if you managed to avoid violence at the start it could happen as a result of them growing tired with the results. Oh, and these could end up fighting each other. African countries have civil wars because of old tribal issues that wouldn't have became huge problems of they hadn't been grouped together into a country. Even democratic appeasal doesn't always worm, not after you have denied it them for so long, you could end up with them democratically demanding independence from you, and unafraid to use violence to force you to acknowledge it

Also, you are still forcing an emperor on a country which doesn't have one. The UK was formed by Scotland and England (Wales was considered to be part of England) as a constitutional monarchy politically after the two already had the same monarch. Uniting the two was only doable because they already had the same monarch, and even then there was trouble! (Not to mention, it wasnt just a standard union, oh no, it was a bailout fund for the bakrupt Scotland... And still there was trouble) In this case, you are still forcing a monarchy on people, to think they will accept it just because you smile and say they can have a parliament too is laughable. You have a monarch who is more powerful than the parliament, presumably, in which case they wont accept it. Even if he was just a figure head they might not accept it then. More fighting. Now you are changing both systems instead of forcing on on another, making it even worse
Also, I would like to point out an issue with giving one country a majority seats... The other gets pissed. Google "Scottish independence" or "Welsh independence" or Catalonian independence or anything else related to this modern independence issues and look at the reasons. You'll notice one popping up a lot: Underrepresentation.
For comparison, Scotland has about 1/10 the population of England but head to head actually have more seats, but as they have less on total they dislike it. This is a problem you will get in unequal representation, even if it is justified logically.

Its up to Gowia in the end, but tbh I think there will be a lot more trouble than you are anticipating, you seem to be going with a "We'll unify, become powerful, it'll all go fine and there will be no important or major problems because almost everyone will cooperate" and that's an idealist and almost fairy tale approach that I think will result in you not having prepared properly for the problems and will result in your union failing (And even if you were lucky enough to succeed, you will need to be lucky to hold it together while all the problems die down (Some never will) and you both coming out weaker than before, which is bad for me >:(

[MrFoxNews]

There is only 1 major company in Numburg not multiple

[darkwolf687]

*Sigh* Alright you two, since you're so bent on it, go for it. But recalling not just the historic problems but also Gowia's comment that he would toss disasters the way of any curb stomp alliance (And lets be honest, that's what this is if it ever did succeed) I have little hopes for your UGF. Good luck, but unless you're going on some super lucky spree, this is likely going to collapse in, and devastate your economies and stability if it does... And by extent my trade and thus my economy, you bloody bastards :c

[null123]

Let us await Gowia's word on it.

[darkwolf687]

If your union bombs, my trade takes a blow and my rebels embolden and gain more support as a result (when I'm managing to fix it -.-) because your little union went and goofed, then you'll be the ones paying for it. I'm sorry, but I'm not being taken for a ride because someone else goofed. If you were going to di this, it would have only been respectable to do so during trade negotiations, I'm not an unwitting stakeholder in your union. As I was not informed, if I take a hit from this, I will have to take a firm stance and demand reparations. The people aren't going to sleep if you mess up my trade, they'll demand action, nor will they be too pleased that I will need to raise taxes to fund an army because yours is too busy killing its own people.

[Iluvatar]

Oh great. Now we are all going to be inflicted with a terrible plague by the great god Gowia. Hoorah -_-

[Toaw]

I can't wait for the first riech to start up...then against since the aim is a unified german federation it will be more like the second one O.O

[gowia]

Right I am here...let me catch up with everything and I can field comments questions and anything else people want me to do:)

[gowia]

Right Duck and MrFoxNews I want you to PM your reasons as to why this union will work, I want to see how you think this will turn out. Since your understanding of your own nations will be better than mine even looking at your NSs. Further more nobody is going to be hit by a plague (Just yet perhaps) since the union hasn't yet become official. I will decide if there are precursor problems based on the PM sent to me. That will be the last I hear on the matter in the OOC. I want all discussions to do with this union to go through me and anybody else considered involved via PM. Thankyou and have a pleasant evening :)

[gowia]

Also...somebody do something stupid! Have a war and lets liven up the Rp...thats not an order just a spectator and GM's opinion :3

[darkwolf687]

Hey, if there union goes through their territories will probably collapse into civil war, then everyone will probably move in to steal them. This union will brighten up this RP alright, we'll all be at war with it by the end of the page haha

[Iluvatar]

Muhahahahahaha...

[darkwolf687]

Yeah, muhahaha...

Oh shit, my lolwebuls will be angry again D: xD

[Iluvatar]

I can see this whole unification thing ending up like Rome and Byzantium - essentially two separate nations again. And in order to get a land border, you will need to occupy some of the empty land in the centre on the continent and invade Azor. So that way we will actually get some war. Perhaps Lydiah could join in if the right... incentives are provided *evil conniving smirk*