[OOC] The League - First Blood (Persistent World Superhero Sci Fi and Fantasy, Always Open)

[Krein]

Yog Sothoth said
have you read a superman comic? because this post is full of the classic myths about Superman being OP. Marvel has Sentry and Silver Surfer who are insanely powerful with not as many weaknesses. Superman is weak against kryptonite, he also has no defenses against magic and he loses his powers under red sunlight, Superman is one of the greatest comic book characters of all time

Myths? Oh no, Superman is completely fricking OP. His weaknesses don't mean jack shit honestly. Kryptonite is a really rare element to get a hold of, so the chances of it being used against him are pretty low unless you're Lex Luthor or Bruce Wayne. A Red Sun? Sure, let me just lasso one of those from a galaxy a couple of light years away and bring it to where Superman is! Or maybe try and lead Superman to it without getting captured by his superspeed or him seeing it miles and miles away with his superhuman vision.

And magic? Yeah okay, maybe, assuming the Superman isn't running or flying around at the speed of sound and dodging the spells. You mentioned the same thing in a Harry Potter RP we were in one time. I also remember him getting struck several times by Shazam's lightning bolt and still having enough strength to overpower him.

He is easily capable of destroying anything with a well placed punch, and coupled with the speed he's capable of going at... yeah no, goodnight for whatevers on the receiving end of that. His invulnerability is complete bull too unless you're Doomsday, and if you want to compare him to Marvel characters, Sentry wouldn't do crap to Superman. In that movie you have in your signature, Superman vs The Elite, one of the villains said that Superman was on the receiving end of the force and energy of 15 (maybe a bit more or less, but somewhere around there) exploding suns. I'm no physicist, but I know that's a hell of a lot of energy for anything that's not a god to survive.
And the sad thing was that he wasn't even scratched. Ok, maybe he was, but his wounds are pretty much scrapes and bruises and nothing really serious. Oh yeah, "instant lobotomy".

Superman might be an inspiration for many superheroes and comic books, but to say he's not OP sounds more like turning a blind eye to significant facts. I used to like Superman and I honestly still kind of do, but he seriously needs to get nerfed some.

[An Outsider]

Right then, that's the Rogues Bio for Dr Whitechapel fleshed out. Saint George is next I think.

[MrDidact]

TJ, Yeah that sounds good. Thought Red Fury affecting others sounds a bit... videogamey unless it's explained properly and doesn't overcharge them too much.

Actually it kinda depends on his incarnation and the writers. His Pre-Crisis version was a God but Post-Crisis they actually did lower his powers significantly. Plus writers never really keep his powers consistent, they barely ever truly utilize super-speed and often tone done his senses. It's not even universally agreed if he needs air or not. His weakness to Kryptonite fluctuates a lot and actually the element is a lot easier to get a hold of then you would think. Red Sun energy can be simulated in the DCU by a bunch of people, and it's often been portrayed that Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, and others could go toe-to-toe with him.

His weakness to magic isn't that consistent either but it has been established that he has no defense against it. He was stabbed by a Magic Sword once and almost died. Electricity has been known to hurt him and sonic or gas-based weapons can work on him pretty well. In All-Star Superman high gravity affected him and he also has no special defense against mental attack. And in the New 52/MOS, different atmospheres and environments can affect his powers as well.

One of his main things is that he can destroy most anything with a punch but he... doesn't. Because he's Superman. His idealism and morals are what holds in back in a fight and it's consistently shown that he holds himself back for fear of killing someone or causing too much destruction. And again his invulnerability fluctuates too. A sufficiently powered weapon is able to knock him off his feet in most adaptations just not do any lasting damage. And for the record I believe Hulk and Silver Surfer would put Superman through his paces too. There's beings that are shown as more powerful than even him, Doomsday, Mongul, Superboy-Prime, Darkseid, and some of the Phantom Zone prisoners are his match and more. But he fights them anyway because he's Superman. And Superman vs the Elite had to be an exaggeration because 15 suns exploding would have destroyed the entire solar system. Plus he get's hit by a telekinetic strike and actually is visibly hurt, he's actually pretty bloodied and bruised when he shows up. The Lobotomy was just a logical extension of his heat vision.

Is he strong yeah. But does he need to be nerfed? Not really. A lot of adaptations make him weaker already, Superman/Batman, the Justice League Animated Films, the DCAU, and Man of Steel all ground his powers pretty well. And the main point of Superman stories isn't if somebody can hurt or kill him. It's if he can save the ones he's supposed to protect and the one's he loved. Superman "loses" if he fails to save someone, when Batman died, it was a pivotal moment because Superman failed and he was beaten in that manner. His powers are the way they are because he's the working class hero, he's always helping people whether it's fighting crime or fixing a kid's bike, he's the one who inspired the whole genre and is the ideal that a lot of them look up to. My favorite incarnation of him is the DCAU Version and his powers are kept to reasonable levels in there.

EDIT: BlackSam, That was a good read. I could have it that the Magus and the Fellowship have been trying to pin him down for over a century with no success.

[An Outsider]

MrDidact said
BlackSam, That was a good read. I could have it that the Magus and the Fellowship have been trying to pin him down for over a century with no success.

Sure thing.

[Krein]

MrDidact said
TJ, Yeah that sounds good. Thought Red Fury affecting others sounds a bit... videogamey unless it's explained properly and doesn't overcharge them too much. Actually it kinda depends on his incarnation and the writers. His Pre-Crisis version was a God but Post-Crisis they actually did lower his powers significantly. Plus writers never really keep his powers consistent, they barely ever truly utilize super-speed and often tone done his senses. It's not even universally agreed if he needs air or not. His weakness to Kryptonite fluctuates a lot and actually the element is a lot easier to get a hold of then you would think. Red Sun energy can be simulated in the DCU by a bunch of people, and it's often been portrayed that Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, and others could go toe-to-toe with him. His weakness to magic isn't that consistent either but it has been established that he has no defense against it. He was stabbed by a Magic Sword once and almost died. Electricity has been known to hurt him and sonic or gas-based weapons can work on him pretty well. In All-Star Superman high gravity affected him and he also has no special defense against mental attack. And in the New 52/MOS, different atmospheres and environments can affect his powers as well. One of his main things is that he can destroy most anything with a punch but he... doesn't. Because he's Superman. His idealism and morals are what holds in back in a fight and it's consistently shown that he holds himself back for fear of killing someone or causing too much destruction. And again his invulnerability fluctuates too. A sufficiently powered weapon is able to knock him off his feet in most adaptations just not do any lasting damage. And for the record I believe Hulk and Silver Surfer would put Superman through his paces too. There's beings that are shown as more powerful than even him, Doomsday, Mongul, Superboy-Prime, Darkseid, and some of the Phantom Zone prisoners are his match and more. But he fights them anyway because he's Superman. And Superman vs the Elite had to be an exaggeration because 15 suns exploding would have destroyed the entire solar system. Plus he get's hit by a telekinetic strike and actually is visibly hurt, he's actually pretty bloodied and bruised when he shows up. The Lobotomy was just a logical extension of his heat vision. Is he strong yeah. But does he need to be nerfed? Not really. A lot of adaptations make him weaker already, Superman/Batman, the Justice League Animated Films, the DCAU, and Man of Steel all ground his powers pretty well. And the main point of Superman stories isn't if somebody can hurt or kill him. It's if he can save the ones he's supposed to protect and the one's he loved. Superman "loses" if he fails to save someone, when Batman died, it was a pivotal moment because Superman failed and he was beaten in that manner. His powers are the way they are because he's the working class hero, he's always helping people whether it's fighting crime or fixing a kid's bike, he's the one who inspired the whole genre and is the ideal that a lot of them look up to. My favorite incarnation of him is the DCAU Version and his powers are kept to reasonable levels in there. EDIT: BlackSam, That was a good read. I could have it that the Magus and the Fellowship have been trying to pin him down for over a century with no success.

Ok, I'll admit defeat :p. The Superman you describe here isn't as bad as I normally think, but that's because he's had so many rewrites that I don't know the level of his powers anymore other than they're reaaaally high up there and can potentially be used to wiggle out of most situations. Still, that's potential and not anything solid when I think about it, and I'll admit I still don't know much about the newest Superman since I'm more of a Marvel fan, and most of the stuff I read in DC is about the Lanterns (Red, Green, Blackest Night, so on).

[Arty Fox]

I only wish that there were some comic shops round were I live. Unfortunately the closet is a bit of a train journey away.

[MrDidact]

I get by. No, it's not because of torrents. *looks around shiftily*

[TJByrum]

MrDidact, the Red Assassins can be enemies in the roleplay if you want. I'll try to explain them more in-depth later on the Rogues Gallery.

And I'll probably shift some things around on Red Lace; but don't worry, it won't be major (I might remove the ability to summon weapons, for example). Nothing to make her OP.

[Yog Sothoth]

Krein said
Myths? Oh no, Superman is completely fricking OP. His weaknesses don't mean jack shit honestly. Kryptonite is a really rare element to get a hold of, so the chances of it being used against him are pretty low unless you're Lex Luthor or Bruce Wayne. A Red Sun? Sure, let me just lasso one of those from a galaxy a couple of light years away and bring it to where Superman is! Or maybe try and lead Superman to it without getting captured by his superspeed or him seeing it miles and miles away with his superhuman vision.And magic? Yeah okay, maybe, assuming the Superman isn't running or flying around at the speed of sound and dodging the spells. You mentioned the same thing in a Harry Potter RP we were in one time. I also remember him getting struck several times by Shazam's lightning bolt and still having enough strength to overpower him.He is easily capable of destroying anything with a well placed punch, and coupled with the speed he's capable of going at... yeah no, goodnight for whatevers on the receiving end of that. His invulnerability is complete bull too unless you're Doomsday, and if you want to compare him to Marvel characters, Sentry wouldn't do crap to Superman. In that movie you have in your signature, Superman vs The Elite, one of the villains said that Superman was on the receiving end of the force and energy of 15 (maybe a bit more or less, but somewhere around there) exploding suns. I'm no physicist, but I know that's a hell of a lot of energy for anything that's not a god to survive.And the sad thing was that he wasn't even scratched. Ok, maybe he was, but his wounds are pretty much scrapes and bruises and nothing really serious. Oh yeah, "instant lobotomy".Superman might be an inspiration for many superheroes and comic books, but to say he's not OP sounds more like turning a blind eye to significant facts. I used to like Superman and I honestly still kind of do, but he seriously needs to get nerfed some.

according to world war hulk, Sentry unleashed the power of ten billion suns so he sounds insanely powerful, and Silver Surfer is also immensely powerful and both of them have almost no weaknesses. Superman was almost killed when he got shot with a kryptonite bullet and while he is powerful he is certainly not on the same level as beings such as the presence, Anti Monitor and Ion and several more. Also in Superman vs the Elite it is debatable if Coldcast actually hit with a blast that powerful, it may have just been exaggeration. Hell Superman on occasions gets hit by missiles and nukes and he gets hurt by them, it's all about how much solar energy he intakes and when he uses his powers and takes hits, his solar energy will eventually deplete. For example if he uses his heat vision then it will quickly drain his power. So I think when written properly Superman is most certainly not the strongest being in the universe and can not beat anything because there are plenty of beings who could kill him.

Also you check out some more DC comics because there are so many awesome stories, especially their magical stories, there are tons of Magical characters who could serious harm Superman and are a major threat to the DC universe which is why there is a Justice League Dark which comprised of DC's supernatural heroes.

[Polyphemus]

Alright, honest question- is the Spirit of Saint Louis overpowered? I've been worried about this, because I feel "magic" is maybe a little too nebulous, not to mention drawing her power from her city. I've tried to limit her to doing just stage magic stuff, but even that feels like a bit much?

I'd be more than happy to rework the character if people have issues.

[Shoryu]

What have I missed? o.o I saw something like an argument while scrolling down.

[MrDidact]

TJ, Yeah I was actually thinking them of putting them in the Arc.

Poly, No not really. In the previous RP she tired out pretty quickly and didn't do any really major stuff.

Shoryu, Just an discussion about Superman's powers haha.

Ok so, I'm sorry for not posting the IC today but some stuff came up. Definitely expect it tomorrow though.

[An Outsider]

Polyphemus said
Alright, honest question- is the Spirit of Saint Louis overpowered? I've been worried about this, because I feel "magic" is maybe a little too nebulous, not to mention drawing her power from her city. I've tried to limit her to doing just stage magic stuff, but even that feels like a bit much?I'd be more than happy to rework the character if people have issues.

Nah, the Spirit was incredibly grounded when written. If you had to rework her then I'd almost definitely have to rework Volt as well.

[Yog Sothoth]

has anyone played the card game Sentinels of The Multiverse?

[Archmage MC]

Back from IRL stuffs. So, Superman arguments, yay. DCAU was his best incarnation, agreed. He wasn't super OP in that one, and was pretty much a better WW with more powers. (Which is why WW is such a bad hero, shes supposed to be 'the trio', yet shes literally a worse superman in all her powers minus the lasso, which you can lie through anyway by saying vague things. And of course her personality outside of DCAU isn't that great.) And why was an advanced scientific race with superpowers adn the ability to fly into space on their own power, not smart enough to put on space suits and fly into space before the planet blew up, or even let the planet blow up in the first place? And since superman sometimes doesn't need oxygen, that logically means they wouldn't need oxygen too, so how does a planet blowing up wipe them out anyway? So many contradictions. At least batman can go one on one with superman and win 100% if he wants, hes smart enough to make a kyrptonite aerosol.

And for marvel, those guys are usually villains, and usually arc villains at that.

[Yog Sothoth]

Archmage MC said
Back from IRL stuffs. So, Superman arguments, yay. DCAU was his best incarnation, agreed. He wasn't super OP in that one, and was pretty much a better WW with more powers. (Which is why WW is such a bad hero, shes supposed to be 'the trio', yet shes literally a worse superman in all her powers minus the lasso, which you can lie through anyway by saying vague things. And of course her personality outside of DCAU isn't that great.) And why was an advanced scientific race with superpowers adn the ability to fly into space on their own power, not smart enough to put on space suits and fly into space before the planet blew up, or even let the planet blow up in the first place? And since superman sometimes doesn't need oxygen, that logically means they wouldn't need oxygen too, so how does a planet blowing up wipe them out anyway? So many contradictions. At least batman can go one on one with superman and win 100% if he wants, hes smart enough to make a kyrptonite aerosol. And for marvel, those guys are usually villains, and usually arc villains at that.

are you aware that krptonians need yellow sunlight to have any of the powers? Krypton's sun was red and when any kryptonian is under red sunlight they are no different than a human. Also in many incarnation, the kryptonians abandoned space exploration out of fear and gave up on space travel, also no one believed Jor El when he told them that the planet was doomed. Also Wonder Woman is a very great hero, she is the biggest fictional role model for girls and women. She can kick a lot of ass, she's gone toe to toe with Ares and several other godlike beings. Again your argument sounds like you didn't even read a single comic book and are stating incorrect facts

[Archmage MC]

Fair enough on the kyrpton things, that makes sense now, but that was also probably a retcon because the writers saw the same thing I did and had to fix that up. :P

WW is not a good female role model, thats just something DC shoves down your throat to try to get the feminists off their backs (Black Canary is a better one imo, usually anyway...). True female role models are pretty much every character in My Little Pony, Friendship is Magic. Shes an OK one, but not the best, not by a long shot, Especially if Miller writes her, but then miller is sorta eeeeh anyway so that doesn't count against her.

And of course while she has gone against 'gods', Superman could just as easily fight them and beat them far quicker than she can while taking less damage and having far more varied ways of taking them out. If she could say, punch ghosts, while superman couldn't, that would be different, but as far as I'm aware, thats not the case and why WW is an inferior superman, same powers, but less of them and with her same powers being worse in all regards than supermans, except DCAU where she was equally as strong.

Dunno what they changed in new 52, I sorta got bored with DC comics around the release of DCAU's Justice League and I've been sticking more with Marvel after that since they had deadpool.

[Krein]

*looks up Black Canary*

My Spoiler

Welp, I found my new favorite superheroine :p.

[Archmage MC]

Krein said
*looks up Black Canary*Welp, I found my new favorite superheroine :p.

I said usually.... Til that stuff happens. DCAU canary was pretty reasonable. :P. Sorta like Samus and her Zero Suit tbh :P. though to be fair, Batman wearing a skin tight outfit like that is sorta eeeeh too if you look at it from a certain angle :P.

[Heat]

Archmage MC said
I said usually.... Til that stuff happens. DCAU canary was pretty reasonable. :P. Sorta like Samus and her Zero Suit tbh :P. though to be fair, Batman wearing a skin tight outfit like that is sorta eeeeh too if you look at it from a certain angle :P.

You mean the bat bulge?