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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Legend
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@DarkwolfX37
90% of your points are speculation. The only thing that would happen if we armed teachers would be that shooters get apprehended or shot immediately, and contribute to overall safety. You assume teachers will be the shooters, but they never are in shootings now anyway, so why would giving them a gun turn them into a killer, especially if they have mental health checks? It's been proven over and over again that the more people armed, the safer society is.

Everything is black and white. There is no gray.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Galaxy Raider
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90% of your points are speculation. The only thing that would happen if we armed teachers would be that shooters get apprehended or shot immediately,
Legend


This applies to society in general too, but I'm sure you are already more than aware of that. A well-armed society means that potential shooters never know what people have the means to defend themselves or others in the area. Makes them think twice before doing anything stupid. You can count on no one having guns in a gun free zone, which makes the shooter the person with all the power for that short period of time.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Legend
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

This applies to society in general too, but I'm sure you are already more than aware of that. A well-armed society means that potential shooters never know what people have the means to defend themselves or others in the area. Makes them think twice before doing anything stupid. You can count on no one having guns in a gun free zone, which makes the shooter the person with all the power for that short period of time.


As evident by the fact that many shoot themselves; they do not wish to relinquish power.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by souleaterfan320
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@DarkwolfX37
90% of your points are speculation. The only thing that would happen if we armed teachers would be that shooters get apprehended or shot immediately, and contribute to overall safety. You assume teachers will be the shooters, but they never are in shootings now anyway, so why would giving them a gun turn them into a killer, especially if they have mental health checks? It's been proven over and over again that the more people armed, the safer society is.

Everything is black and white. There is no gray.


Not even getting started on this.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Legend
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

Not even getting started on this.


You didn't respond to Mavis.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by souleaterfan320
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<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>

You didn't respond to Mavis.


When she laughed?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Legend
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

When she laughed?


No.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Legend
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

Not really. We've seen over and over that if you make killing more dangerous, new methods will be used. That's literally the biggest reason we have most technology.
No, they wouldn't. Cops still get killed, and they're a lot more armed. Military bases still get shot up. You're just creating crossfire.
Teachers aren't school shooters as often, but it happens. And arming them will increase the likelihood because they don't have to go buy or find a gun that gives them time to calm down.
You say that as if the kind of mental health checks america does mean anything.
Except that the countries with the lowest violent crime rates all have strict gun regulation.

You've got it backwards. Nothing is black and white. There are only shades of grey. You just look at it and say "oh that isn't ashen, it's black. And that isn't silver, it's white."


You're overlooking that shootings occur in literally the most controlled zones. Military bases were dearmed, which is why shootings happened. History has proven that less regulation equals safer citizens. And what happened to your support of ”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither?” You're back and forth with your anarchy support and absolute totalitarian support.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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<Snipped quote by whizzball1>

<Snipped quote by Legend>

No because that would be stupid. The reason places are gun-free is so people who bring them have reason to be stopped when it's noticed. Otherwise you can't stop them until they do something, at which point it's too late. Teachers aren't armed because they'd either use them on students when a fight between teacher and student breaks out, or if the teacher would do a shooting anyway, or a student could get a gun on campus easily all the sudden. I dislike police, but similar being armed around the school is an actually viable option. No interpersonal commitment or likelihood of getting in a fight or planning a school shooting regardless, plus can arrest potential shooters instead of only being able to kill someone after they've done something. Not to mention that two people shooting in a populated space is worse than just one. This isn't a wild west show, the people shooting each other aren't isolated. There will be crossfire, and "the good guy" with a gun isn't automatically going to beat "the bad guy" with a gun. Not to mention that shooting someone or watching someone you're around daily and/or will be armed around you daily puts a huge psychological strain on someone. Plus, the time and resources to train people to use guns correctly and responsibly would cost tons, teachers would have to be payed more, which in public schools should happen anyway, but in private and college/university would raise costs even more than the ridiculous current, and it would make teachers targets, PLUS potential shooters would change to more self-safe, more lethal methods instead of walking in and pulling out a gun. Bombs, for example. Would-be suicide-homicide shooters would move to things like suicide bombs, non-suicide shooters would move to things like chemical gasses, with as easy to make as they are. This would lead to prison-like security systems eventually. You know uniforms and metal detectors would be pushed for, hard, after a single suicide bomber. Look what happened with planes, and they can't even take away your rights like schools retardedly can. They're enough like incarceration as it is, thanks.
Why do conservatives, common libertarians, republicans, and democrats all see this as a black and white issue? There's a lot more to it than "add more guns to the situation."


Actually pretty good points.
EDIT: Except maybe not.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Webmaster
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

That's because that isn't control. Having someone, a trained, detached presence to enforce it is control. Shooting have also happened in armed places. They just aren't pro-gun fodder so they aren't as covered.
Modern day proves that more regulation works better. I'll say it again. The countries with the lowest violent crime rates have strict gun regulation. Fucking Hong Kong is third lowest, and nobody but the government has guns there. Shite government another subject.
I never said I was in support of it. I said arming more people not smart and doesn't work. More, better regulation on getting guns and having detached, trained enforcers of gun-free zones works. If you want less deaths and shootings, you need better gun regulation.
It's like with our sword topic. Just because I'm pointing out that a method for achieving a certain goal doesn't work doesn't mean I agree with it. I consider myself a professional devil's advocate, furthermore. In a worldwide anarchy, everyone being armed would eventually equalize. Plus, I'm very open about supporting anarchy only worldwide. As I said a while back, barring worldwide anarchy, I support a well done mixed monarchy, so the leaders are well educated from birth, even if they don't end up in power, or needed to do anything in their lifetime if they are.
As long as killing humans is institutionally subverted by prison and/or death, there's no way to equalize it. We have such a system, ergo it won't work because it won't equalize. The reason Switzerland's (lowest violent crime rate in the world) system works is because not only is it hard to get a gun bar keeping one from the military, but it also conscripts most 20-30 year old males and as such trains them. It also requires previously conscripted get a special permit to keep their guns, and makes all previously military owned privately owned guns be semi-automatic at best/worst, no military to private fully autos. And their carry laws are strict. "To carry a loaded firearm in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragbewilligung (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security."
Obviously this is not a very freedom friendly system, it's authoritarian.


You do realize that the media is all gun control, correct?
Arming everyone is literally my point. You can't combine the two concepts you advocate.
I don't mind extensive training. Make the gun owners know how to use their guns. Disarming them means their death in the situation of danger. I've read story after story from people in Europe who are helpless and in danger of losing everything because they have no weapons to defend against intruders or murderers. We can see that system not working in society, and people ignore it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by souleaterfan320
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<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>



I remember a time whe n the ooc was specifically for debates about the Rp itself.

Then people brought their issues into the ooc.

I myself am included to causing this problem. In fact, I contributed the most non IC related ooc posts.

Shame on me.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by souleaterfan320
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<Snipped quote by Legend>

Not really. We've seen over and over that if you make killing more dangerous, new methods will be used. That's literally the biggest reason we have most technology.
No, they wouldn't. Cops still get killed, and they're a lot more armed. Military bases still get shot up. You're just creating crossfire.
Teachers aren't school shooters as often, but it happens. And arming them will increase the likelihood because they don't have to go buy or find a gun that gives them time to calm down.
You say that as if the kind of mental health checks america does mean anything.
Except that the countries with the lowest violent crime rates all have strict gun regulation.

You've got it backwards. Nothing is black and white. There are only shades of grey. You just look at it and say "oh that isn't ashen, it's black. And that isn't silver, it's white."


Please don't do this.

I've already tried to convince him.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Galaxy Raider
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<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

I remember a time whe n the ooc was specifically for debates about the Rp itself.

Then people brought their issues into the ooc.

I myself am included to causing this problem. In fact, I contributed the most non IC related ooc posts.

Shame on me.


I don't feel that it's a problem. It's okay to vent if you need here, and debates are fun. Even if you don't debate, hearing someone else's opinion is interesting.
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by souleaterfan320
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<Snipped quote by souleaterfan320>

I don't feel that it's a problem. It's okay to vent if you need here, and debates are fun. Even if you don't debate, hearing someone else's opinion is interesting.


Not when debates turn into arguments. When two people hold strong, firm beliefs about a subject and put them in a room, its as bad as giving both a death sentence. It's how wars start.
It's why gangs form.

I dare to say its why people in violent situations die.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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