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Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Legend said
Your image is broken. First, I've explained this a thousand times, God forbade murder, killing without justice. He had just purposes. Second, we believe in the same version, and yes, if you attempt to weaken someone's faith, you aren't welcome in the IC or the OOC of Myriad Reality. Finally, you're blind, and see contradictions where none stand. I've debunked a thousand of yours, and all you can do is repeat yourself. That's my final decision on the issue.


Firstly, this is the first time (at least in my memory) where you claimed that murder <> killing. Secondly, Flood, sodom/gomorrah, all firstborns of egypt. In all of these situations, he killed many innocents because of the actions of the few. That is murder. Second, I fixed the image.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Legend
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DarkwolfX37 said
Firstly, this is the first time (at least in my memory) where you claimed that murder <> killing. Secondly, Flood, sodom/gomorrah, all firstborns of egypt. In all of these situations, he killed many innocents because of the actions of the few. That is murder. Second, I fixed the image.


You've already demonstrated that your memory of details is poor; I've made the point countless times. Next, if you'd actually read what you're criticizing, all the world was evil in the flood but Noah and his family, whom God spared, all but a handful in people in Sodom and Gomorrah, whom God spared, and Egypt was Godless, and sent a plague, sparing all those who followed his command.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Legend said
Now it works. First of all, if you- and every other ignorant atheist- would read those in context, you would understand that there are zero contradictions at all. Now again, if you attempt to weaken faith at any point beyond now, you aren't welcome.


And if you would take your literalist interpretation seriously, instead of switching between "everything is literal" and "except that part isn't" then you'd see that they aren't. Also, I noticed how you don't even bother to check them. You just assume that people who take this far more seriously than you do must be taking it out of context. And then you claim that things with evidence require blind trust. And of course, I'm the fool for asking him to think for himself. Clearly.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Legend
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DarkwolfX37 said
And if you would take your literalist interpretation seriously, instead of switching between "everything is literal" and "except that part isn't" then you'd see that they aren't. Also, I noticed how you don't even bother to check them. You just assume that people who take this far more seriously than you do must be taking it out of context. And then you claim that things with evidence require blind trust. And of course, I'm the fool for asking him to think for himself. Clearly.


I've read the Bible; I'm aware of what it says.
"The fool says in his heart 'There is no God.'" You clearly are a fool.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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DarkwolfX37 said
That's exactly how it works according to you himself. Even though god killed people and he said it's wrong to do that, you say he's still not in the wrong. No it fucking doesn't stand. You and whizz and sven all have altered versions of the same fucking thing, so don't you dare say that.Well then it must fucking suck for you that the new testament directly says contradictions about who gets that.


Each and every one of those verses comes with a context. I would explain them all, but I don't have time.
Legend said
Now it works. First of all, if you- and every other ignorant atheist- would read those in context, you would understand that there are zero contradictions at all. Now again, if you attempt to weaken faith at any point beyond now, you aren't welcome.


Exactly.
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Legend said
You've already demonstrated that your memory of details is poor; I've made the point countless times. Next, if you'd actually read what you're criticizing, all the world was evil in the flood but Noah and his family, whom God spared, all but a handful in people in Sodom and Gomorrah, whom God spared, and Egypt was Godless, and sent a plague, sparing all those who followed his command.


Ehem: Logic time. The flood was world wide. Let's even assume that everyone above the age of 2 was evil except noah. There are still X newborns and infants who could not POSSIBLY be "evil". This adds at LEAST a 12th of those killed as murders. Even more if you consider the birth rate of the time.
Sodom and Gomorrah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6DnujiVCwo
Egypt: Exodus 12:29: "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well." This includes: prisoners' children, slave children, children of immigrants. Not only that, but let's not forget the "context" that christians like to bitch about. He did this because the pharaoh refused Moses, which let's not forget that the whole fucking reason he refused is because:
Exodus 10:1-2: "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.”"
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Legend
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DarkwolfX37 said
Ehem: Logic time. The flood was world wide. Let's even assume that everyone above the age of 2 was evil except noah. There are still X newborns and infants who could not POSSIBLY be "evil". This adds at LEAST a 12th of those killed as murders. Even more if you consider the birth rate of the time.Sodom and Gomorrah: Egypt: Exodus 12:29: "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well." This includes: prisoners' children, slave children, children of immigrants. Not only that, but let's not forget the "context" that christians like to bitch about. He did this because the pharaoh refused Moses, which let's not forget that the whole fucking reason he refused is because:Exodus 10:1-2: "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.”"


Ahem, Christian stating things you're too blind to see time. The Bible declares that we are all born into sin due to Adam and Eve, so there goes you "innocence" idea. Next if you'd read the chapter, he'd spare everyone with lamb's blood on their doorpost. When the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, what it really means is that God simply facilitated a process that Pharaoh himself initiated. After all, the Bible repeatedly also states that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, i.e. Exodus 8:15 and 32. However, another belief states that God in His omniscience foreknew exactly how Pharaoh would respond, and He used it to accomplish His purposes. God ordained the means of Pharaoh's free but stubborn action.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Legend said
I've read the Bible; I'm aware of what it says. "The fool says in his heart 'There is no God.'" You clearly are a fool.


Is that really the best you've got?
Proverbs 14:15: "The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps."

Oh and by the way...
Romans 14:1-23: "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

And to give you reason as to why you should go re-read the bible with that "near photographic" memory of yours...
James 2:14-17 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

And the there's this unfortunate verse:
Matthew 5:21-22 " “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire."

Oh and one last thing. Remember that whole "context" thing?
Psalm 14:1 "To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good."
I have a feeling I know why you conveniently left the damning part out.
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*Le sigh*
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by DarkwolfX37
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Legend said
Ahem, Christian stating things you're too blind to see time. The Bible declares that we are all born into sin due to Adam and Eve, so there goes you "innocence" idea. Next if you'd read the chapter, he'd spare everyone with lamb's blood on their doorpost. When the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, what it really means is that God simply facilitated a process that Pharaoh himself initiated. After all, the Bible repeatedly also states that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, i.e. Exodus 8:15 and 32. However, another belief states that God in His omniscience foreknew exactly how Pharaoh would respond, and He used it to accomplish His purposes. God ordained the means of Pharaoh's free but stubborn action.


*Sigh*
Exodus 9:

9 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.” 2 If you refuse to let them go and continue to hold them back, 3 the hand of the Lord will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field—on your horses, donkeys and camels and on your cattle, sheep and goats. 4 But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt, so that no animal belonging to the Israelites will die.’”

5 The Lord set a time and said, “Tomorrow the Lord will do this in the land.” 6 And the next day the Lord did it: All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the Israelites died. 7 Pharaoh investigated and found that not even one of the animals of the Israelites had died. Yet his heart was unyielding and he would not let the people go.

The Plague of Boils

8 Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Take handfuls of soot from a furnace and have Moses toss it into the air in the presence of Pharaoh. 9 It will become fine dust over the whole land of Egypt, and festering boils will break out on people and animals throughout the land.”

10 So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on people and animals. 11 The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians. 12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

The Plague of Hail

13 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, 14 or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. 15 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. 16 But I have raised you up[a] for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 17 You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go. 18 Therefore, at this time tomorrow I will send the worst hailstorm that has ever fallen on Egypt, from the day it was founded till now. 19 Give an order now to bring your livestock and everything you have in the field to a place of shelter, because the hail will fall on every person and animal that has not been brought in and is still out in the field, and they will die.’”

20 Those officials of Pharaoh who feared the word of the Lord hurried to bring their slaves and their livestock inside. 21 But those who ignored the word of the Lord left their slaves and livestock in the field.

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that hail will fall all over Egypt—on people and animals and on everything growing in the fields of Egypt.” 23 When Moses stretched out his staff toward the sky, the Lord sent thunder and hail, and lightning flashed down to the ground. So the Lord rained hail on the land of Egypt; 24 hail fell and lightning flashed back and forth. It was the worst storm in all the land of Egypt since it had become a nation. 25 Throughout Egypt hail struck everything in the fields—both people and animals; it beat down everything growing in the fields and stripped every tree. 26 The only place it did not hail was the land of Goshen, where the Israelites were.

27 Then Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron. “This time I have sinned,” he said to them. “The Lord is in the right, and I and my people are in the wrong. 28 Pray to the Lord, for we have had enough thunder and hail. I will let you go; you don’t have to stay any longer.”

29 Moses replied, “When I have gone out of the city, I will spread out my hands in prayer to the Lord. The thunder will stop and there will be no more hail, so you may know that the earth is the Lord’s. 30 But I know that you and your officials still do not fear the Lord God.”

31 (The flax and barley were destroyed, since the barley had headed and the flax was in bloom. 32 The wheat and spelt, however, were not destroyed, because they ripen later.)

33 Then Moses left Pharaoh and went out of the city. He spread out his hands toward the Lord; the thunder and hail stopped, and the rain no longer poured down on the land. 34 When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. 35 So Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the Lord had said through Moses.

Exodus 10:

10 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord.”

3 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, “This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: ‘How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me? Let my people go, so that they may worship me. 4 If you refuse to let them go, I will bring locusts into your country tomorrow. 5 They will cover the face of the ground so that it cannot be seen. They will devour what little you have left after the hail, including every tree that is growing in your fields. 6 They will fill your houses and those of all your officials and all the Egyptians—something neither your parents nor your ancestors have ever seen from the day they settled in this land till now.’” Then Moses turned and left Pharaoh.

7 Pharaoh’s officials said to him, “How long will this man be a snare to us? Let the people go, so that they may worship the Lord their God. Do you not yet realize that Egypt is ruined?”

8 Then Moses and Aaron were brought back to Pharaoh. “Go, worship the Lord your God,” he said. “But tell me who will be going.”

9 Moses answered, “We will go with our young and our old, with our sons and our daughters, and with our flocks and herds, because we are to celebrate a festival to the Lord.”

10 Pharaoh said, “The Lord be with you—if I let you go, along with your women and children! Clearly you are bent on evil.[a] 11 No! Have only the men go and worship the Lord, since that’s what you have been asking for.” Then Moses and Aaron were driven out of Pharaoh’s presence.

Exodus 11:

11 Now the Lord had said to Moses, “I will bring one more plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt. After that, he will let you go from here, and when he does, he will drive you out completely. 2 Tell the people that men and women alike are to ask their neighbors for articles of silver and gold.” 3 (The Lord made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and Moses himself was highly regarded in Egypt by Pharaoh’s officials and by the people.)

4 So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any person or animal.’ Then you will know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. 8 All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, ‘Go, you and all the people who follow you!’ After that I will leave.” Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh.

9 The Lord had said to Moses, “Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you—so that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt.” 10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

You were saying?
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by whizzball1
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DarkwolfX37 said
Is that really the best you've got? Proverbs 14:15: "The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps."Oh and by the way...Romans 14:1-23: "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."And to give you reason as to why you should go re-read the bible with that "near photographic" memory of yours...James 2:14-17 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."And the there's this unfortunate verse:Matthew 5:21-22 " “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire." Oh and one last thing. Remember that whole "context" thing? Psalm 14:1 "To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good."I have a feeling I know why you conveniently left the damning part out.


It's a staple of our belief that faith must come with doing. A Christian that does not do anything for God has no relationship with God. What good friend doesn't do things for his friends?
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DarkwolfX37 said
Is that really the best you've got? Proverbs 14:15: "The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps."Oh and by the way...Romans 14:1-23: "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."And to give you reason as to why you should go re-read the bible with that "near photographic" memory of yours...James 2:14-17 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."And the there's this unfortunate verse:Matthew 5:21-22 " “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire." Oh and one last thing. Remember that whole "context" thing? Psalm 14:1 "To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good."I have a feeling I know why you conveniently left the damning part out.


Not quite, actually. It is not I that am calling you a fool, but the scriptures itself. In addition, I don't leave anything out. I don't judge you, but I repeat what the Bible says about you. As for your second comment, I have a feeling that you didn't even read what I wrote.
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DarkwolfX37 said
And the there's this unfortunate verse:Matthew 5:21-22 " “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire."


How convenient, the sermon we were watching today spoke about those exact verses. To be angry at someone in your heart is counted for as murder. One of the reasons for this is that it's like killing the person inside your heart. God takes anger very seriously.
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whizzball1 said
How convenient, the sermon we were watching today spoke about those exact verses. To be angry at someone in your heart is counted for as murder. One of the reasons for this is that it's like killing the person inside your heart. God takes anger very seriously.


Because our anger is imperfect. Although calling an atheist a fool not out of anger, but in accordance to scriptures is not.
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whizzball1 said
It's a staple of our belief that faith must come with doing. A Christian that does not do anything for God has no relationship with God. What good friend doesn't do things for his friends?


You're not following the progression. Apply that verse the the one before it.
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Legend said
Not quite, actually. It is not I that am calling you a fool, but the scriptures itself. In addition, I don't leave anything out. I don't judge you, but I repeat what the Bible says about you. As for your second comment, I have a feeling that you didn't even read what I wrote.


Dude. "Don't listen to Dark, he's a fool."
And you don't leave anything out?
"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good." "
You left out quite a bold claim that the bible makes.
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Armed Forces said
*Le sigh*


You may as well join in, this is practically the final boss fight of the first game. Sure it's not the most difficult one, but there's still an insta kill in here, and it'll probably be the last time, according to David with his "you are not welcome here" thing.
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Etcetera said
Because our anger is imperfect. Although calling an atheist a fool not out of anger, but in accordance to scriptures is not.


And yet "You are not welcome here" isn't either? Uhuh.
And while it's semantics, I'm not an atheist, in case you forgot.
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DarkwolfX37 said
Dude. "Don't listen to Dark, he's a fool."And you don't leave anything out?"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good." "You left out quite a bold claim that the bible makes.


You are corrupt. Although at the same time, all of us are.
DarkwolfX37 said
You may as well join in, this is practically the final boss fight of the first game. Sure it's not the most difficult one, but there's still an insta kill in here, and it'll probably be the last time, according to David with his "you are not welcome here" thing.


Not really. It's a boss that ignores the code when you hit him and goes "Nope. Try again." And them uses the same attack pattern every time.
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DarkwolfX37 said
And yet "You are not welcome here" isn't either? Uhuh. And while it's semantics, I'm not an atheist, in case you forgot.


Not in anger, but in turning away from evil. You're close enough.
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