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Hidden 10 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Flooby Badoop
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Original Interest Check/Sign-Up Thread



[youtube]oVB_L9VWVsM[/youtube]

To Lund ap Lunds, the Land of Lords, Lundland for short. Or as foreigners call it, the Doomed Kingdom.

The poor kingdoms of this desolate land were united through decades of bloody wars and deadly politics a century ago, under the house of Trisch and their banner; a red sword facing downward. The Kingdom's founder proclaimed himself Overlord, and each vassal a Lord to him. To solidify his rule, and help pacify the unruly and proud nobles, the first Overlord Aella built a mighty and luxurious court in their home of Bolgaz, the mighty fortress of Trischland. Though the fortress' luxury ill-compares to the magnificent castles of other lands, there had never been a place more resplendent in Lundland. The Overlord then invited all the nobles of his land to live at court, that they might be kept under a watchful eye, and sedated with luxury.

At first, the Overlord was a mighty and respected title, with absolute and unquestioned power. But the ages have not been kind to the position, with each successor weaker than the last, and each Lord of the realm a little greedier every generation. Over the last century, the Overlords had given away many concessions to the nobles, such as allowing someone to serve in their stead at court, and limiting their responsibilities to providing House Trisch with their full levies in times of war.

After a century, the position of Overlord has become ceremonial; a fancy title with some land attached to it.

Lundland a land mocked for its hard soil, thick men, ugly women, and cruel masters. The land faces enemies on all sides, for as poor and fractured as it is, many see it as a land unable to defend itself, and thus ripe for the taking.

In the southwest are the Bogans, the merchant princes of the Southwest Isles. Lundland is hardly considered worth trading with to any aspiring merchant, but its people are hardy, and thus make excellent galley slaves. Whenever it seems profitable, the Bogans will gather a great host of mercenaries and slavers, who think nothing of the lives they deal in, save for the gold they might bring.

In the East are the Giants, those nomads who wander the frozen deserts. They are massive men, known to grow up to seven feet tall, with the strength of two oxen. When the scant resources of the frozen plains they inhabit grow too small, or merely because they wish for riches and women, they rampage through the east, leaving a sea of smoke, and a trail of tears.

In the North lives a more organized threat; the people of the Volcanic Island. So long as the great volcano of their island never erupts, they are a peaceful people. But, when that mountain spills the rage of the gods through their lands, the warriors gather, out of both necessity and religious duty, to take what they need. A great warchief will lead them to pillage the land and steal people, to work as slaves in restoring their scorched land, and to act as sacrifices, so as to appease the hateful god of the mountain.

But the greatest threats to the land lie in the south: the Ordained Kingdom, and the Empire of Baccus.

The Ordained Kingdom is an empire in all but name. The power and religious authority of their One King is unquestionable, for their family had long since consolidated their power. The whole of their land is lush and fertile, their people numerous, their cities large and prosperous, their wealth uncountable. They are second only to the Baccus Empire, which matches the Ordained in not wealth, but sheer size, for it is a monster that has eaten more kingdoms than comprises Lundland. It has always been ruled by cruel, merciless, and ambition leaders.

Lundland rarely need deal with them, for the two great lands seemed locked in a constant war with each other. But every so often, if there is peace between them, one or both of the them will decide to plunder and conquer the southlands of Lundland. In these wars has the kingdom suffered her bloodiest battles, and faced her most dreaded defeats. Woe has been the king to deal with such wars.

The kingdom has not only enemies without, but enemies within. The Land of Lords is no mere title, for thanks to the incompetence of past Overlords, each Lord of the land might be considered a petty king in and of themselves, as even they have vassals owing fealty to them. Every Lord has had to deal with their vassals, who in peace will wage war on each other, and scheme to claim land and privileges held rightly by the Lord, and it is the same for the Overlord.

With so many enemies and so much infighting, Lundland rarely sees peace. And things have only gotten worse in recent times.

The great Overlord Balthazar, who had worked so dutifully to protect the land, and increase the pitiful authority of his title, died in a battle with a small group of mercenaries under a Bogan's pay. It was a most pathetic death, for the sellswords were in flight. One of them grew panicked, and shot an unaimed crossbow behind himself. The bolt hit Balthazar in the right arm as he was riding, and the Overlord succumbed to the wound not hours later. As word got around, many soldiers started to panic themselves.

The sellswords, seeing this confusion, decided to halt their flight and regroup. With new organization and confidence, the Bogan mercenaries pillaged the land without resistance, as the feckless vassals of the land refused to fight for a dead liege.

Though Balthazar's eldest son, Rone, was eventually crowned the new Overlord, it was far too late. The Bogan mercenaries had rampaged across all the land belonging directly to the Overlord, and beyond. The vassals of the realm had all gone back to their separate lands, none willing to do anything but save themselves. And as the confusion and desperation grew, so did the enemies of the kingdom, who sought to take advantage of the land's weakness. Rone saw all his father worked to achieve disappear before his eyes. With no men at call, he could do nothing but stay in the mighty fortress of Bolgaz. The servants saw him become more and more reclusive, as the young lord did nothing but lock himself away in his bedroom for hours, or even days at a time. Many believe Rone has lost his mind to despair.

With a weak ruler as he, all who have even the slightest claim to the throne are now crying of their divine right to rule on whoever will listen, but there are two in particular who have garnered significant support.

Balthazar's eldest daughter claims the throne is hers by right, for though it has been tradition for the eldest son to inherit, it is stated in the writs of the Overlord that the eldest child inherit the throne, with no mention of gender. Though many lords laugh at her claim, she has pressed them with such vehemence at court that the marshal of the realm, Uthred, tried to have her arrested. She escaped Bolgaz, and has not been heard of in some time.

There is also the next in line for the throne, Theodore Trisch, the first cousin of Rone. He also asserts his claim to the throne through the writs, for according to them, the next-in-line to the throne should serve as acting regent if the current Overlord is ever indisposed, until such a time when the Overlord either recovers their health, or dies. And while Rone is technically capable of rule, it is clear to many how mentally unstable he is, and numerous Lords support Theodore's claim to the throne.

All that said, however, enemies rampage across the land, and most Lords fear for their survival. The question of the throne is the furthest thing from most of their minds.

For now, most are well with an Overlord who will watch his kingdom burn.

---

Greetings,

For those who are familiar with this, welcome back. I thank you for ploughing through what was essentially the beta for this NRP. I don't make great claims to this incarnation being perfect, but I believe this version to be a vast improvement on the admitted clusterfuck it had started out as, and as a direct consequence, far more enjoyable and streamlined. Also to your interest, more buildings are coming, but none of them shall be available at the very start, so I decided to leave them out of the rules until I'm sure there will be no balance issues. Also, border concerns are out, save for March of Mishfarden. You're now in constant danger whether you like it or not.

For those just joining this, I welcome you even more warmly. I thank you in advance for your interest, and I do hope you enjoy your stay in our fine land. . .

Below are the latest incarnation of the rules, along with a few other useful things, but here are some key points for people who don't want to wade through the rules to find them:

* To express your interest, simple say so and create a lordship using the template found below. I have the final word on whether you are accepted or not, and reserve the right to say as little or as much as to why or why not.

* The game will work by PMing me whatever Actions you'd like to accomplish in a season. If you make an IC post, and it is highly recommended you make at least one each season, you can do so using any of your characters. All diplomacy between lords are instant, because of the Overlord's Court. The Overlord's Court is located in the fortress of Bolgaz, and by law of the land, each Lord is required to either be present there themselves, or have someone who speaks with their authority be there in their stead. If goods or people are being exchanged, or you are trying to relay a message to a Lord who doesn't have a representative at court, or to any traveling characters, travel times will come into play. For travel times, I'm afraid you will have to look at the rules.

* If people are not fed, they starve. Starving means a number of whoever is starving will die, subject to random result. This was too short and unrelated to put in the rules, but it should be common sense.

* Marriages are a way of cementing a formal alliance between two houses. How strong the alliance is depends on which two members are being married. For example, a marriage between a firstborn daughter of one lord and a second-born son of another will be a lot stronger than a marriage between an uncle of one lord and a niece of another. Marriage is not mentioned in the rules because its importance is entirely up to the players.

* Upon the completion and acceptance of your sheet, you will be given vassals. These vassals will have land technically separate from your own, but pledge loyalty to you by offering you all their levies in times of war. This is the limit of the responsibilities, and it is up to you to decide the specific dos and donts of your land.

* To conquer a fief, you must capture it's manor. It's as simple and complex as that.

With those things out of the way, here are other useful writs for your consideration:



Rules XXII

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Annums Past. . .

AU 107

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Inspiring Music

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[youtube]u01Dk8O53JQ[/youtube]
Hidden 10 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Flooby Badoop
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To Lunds ap Lundland

Kingdom of Therral ( Lands of House Behringer ) [ Cale Tucker ]

Kingdom of Pelataria ( Lands of House Cole ) [ FortunesFaded ]

Kingdom of Almare ( Lands of House Griffiths ) [ Ashgan ]

The Ironstone Islands ( Lands of House Strongheart ) [ ulsterwarrior ]

The Jarldom of Jorvik ( Lands of House Vasa ) [ So Boerd ]

The Lands of Attolia ( Lands of House Wolff ) [ heyitsjiwon ]

Kingdom of Kaldur ( Lands of House Harvestar ) [ Outcast ]

Kingdom of Diritania ( Lands of House Vearin ) [ Bikriki ]

Kingdom of Aaldoreanfeald ( Lands of House Osgar ) [ The Nexerus ]

Lands of House Bloodsun [ Sadko ]

The Crownlands ( Lands of House Trisch )

The Church of Lundland

Dread's Fist ( Mercenary Company ) [ Cale Tucker ]

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List of all Towns

Palma: 10,000, Fair, Pelataria [ House Cole ]

Calisii: 4,000, Fair, Centreport [ House Cole ]

Aldranport: 10,000, Fair, Aldranland [ House Aldran ]

Bellmoral: 9,000, Fair, Terrandul [ House Behringer ]

Falkirh: 2,000, Fair, Keep Sanctum [ House Behringer ]

Fishmarket: 3,000, Wretched, Fisherbay [ House Fisher ]

Coalfell: 2,000, Fair, Blackwood [ House Griffiths ]

Blackburn: 1,000, Poor, Greypass [ House Griffiths ]

Attolia: 1,000 Fair, Attolia [ House Wolff ]

Giant's Bane: 10,000, Fair, Icemark [ House Harvestar ]

Veara: 5,000, Fair, Diritania [ House Vearin ]

Bellaudi: 7,000, Fair, Lower Norraine [ House Vearin ]

Orgules: 9,000, Fair, Crymson Streams [ House Bloodsun ]

Sourwoods: 3,000, Poor, Lady's Scythe [ House Bloodsun ]

Pentiloch: 21,000, Wretched, Trischland [ House Trisch ]

Falkwreath: 2,900, Wretched, Falkwreath Township [ House Trisch ]

Bernwick: 15,000, Fair, Bernwick [ Archbishopric of The Lundish Church ]
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Posting today or tomorrow.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by King Solterra
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Im not first ;_;

I hate you Boerd
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Outcast
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I appear to be missing a fief. I should have 22 but I can only count 21. Also, for the life of me I can't find #74.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ashgan
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Yo, good job getting stuff going. There are two things though that you may want to modify concerning my kingdom. For one, Almare's fiefs are incorrectly labelled, as I arranged them very specifically in my sheet (and distributed manor fortifications in accordance to that). The labels should be as follows:

53 Windermere
54 Mortham
55 Blackwood
56 Ashbourne
57 Wingston
58 Myrefall
59 Greypass

Then, and this is something I should have mentioned much earlier but I didn't really get to posting much at the time, is a small inconsistency in the description of house Rhiwallon. It says that the lady has a sister called Clemence, but this is most likely false as in the description for house Orrig, you stated that this house's lord is married to a certain Lady Eleanor, who is allegedly the sister of Lady Rhiwallon. Clemence, being that lord's previous wife, is dead and comes from elsewhere.

There was also some unfinished sentence in house Orrig's description, something about him pressuring me to ... something, as the sentence abruptly ended after that. But I can't find it anymore, so I'm guessing you already took care of that.

This should be all, thanks for your efforts.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Sadko
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Hey, Flooby. It seems there's no 171 Lady's Scythe on my lands :-)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Flooby Badoop
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They kept me 'till around 2am last night, and I didn't wanted to be tempted to miss a nice, 8 hour sleep for the next workday, so working on buildings as we speak.

Map fixes have been taken care of, thanks all!

@ Ashgan; That was a typo, and I accidentally typed Clemence as her sister instead of Eleanor. Thanks for the catch! As for House Orring, that was a planned subplot/grievance I had planned with them, but decided against it, because that would have been crossing the fine line between clarifying details on random results, and adding more than I'm allowed to.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by King Solterra
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I'll be posting tomorrow. I have the whole day off and I work tonight, sorry.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Flooby Badoop
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Cale Tucker said
I'll be posting tomorrow. I have the whole day off and I work tonight, sorry.


No worries, you got a whole week. ;)

By the way, for those that haven't finished their militaries, I won't be accepting any orders from you until I see them.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Bikriki
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I have (finally) finished my military and edited my original post in the INTCHECK thread accordingly.
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Bikriki said
I have (finally) finished my military and edited my original post in the INTCHECK thread accordingly.


Thankies, I'll hopefully have everyone's sheet copied into here by tomorrow.

New rules update, including the aforementioned manor buildings, as well as new town buildings, and a few new rules to accommodate both those things.

As a reminder, pay is not included in total upkeep. It will always be 1 bulli for every season they are raised.
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Build a Training Grounds – 10,000 bullis, 1 season to complete, requires Military Bailey.

A fenced-off area of the castle, filled with scarecrows with wooden weapons sewn on, targets for archery, enclosures for practice-combat, and a list for jousting, as well as other useful places and tools for martial training. This building allows any raised levies staying in the Manor where this building is located to benefit from training. This will increase their morale and discipline during battle. The effect of this training is increased for each season the raised levies are present in the Manor; a minimum of 1 season is required to see benefit from the training, while a maximum of 1 annum can be afforded to give the raised levies an elite training regime. The effect of this training tapers off for each season the raised levies are no longer raised.


All right, this begs the question how morale works. I understand you probably want to keep the numbers for your battle system hidden (somewhat sadly, as I have a great deal of interest in the game math behind it), but it's kind of hard to gauge the usefulness of something as vague as morale, and how to work with and against it. I suppose I also have a particular interest in the morale mechanic because, as you have garnered from my kingdom's description, they make a bit of a deal out of shattering enemy morale when possible, and this building essentially confirms that this is in fact an option (previous to this entry, I had actually assumed you did not take morale and expertise into account). Even disregarding this building, are inspiration (like through a great leader, a holy relic, a banner or similar) and scare tactics a viable way to improve one's chances in battle?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Having done combat in the beta, I can assure you morale is factored in.
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Glad to hear this. I got another question as I contemplate building choices: Is there overlap between the Watch Tower and the Town Guardhouse? Both seem to spot sneaky parties and guard trade routes. Is there a point in getting both?

Edit: I did some more math guys! Maybe you all realized this already, but in case you didn't, I feel this is some good information:

Storehouses. They're super efficient at low-fertility fiefdoms! So they can contain up to 100 people, preferably peasants, and make them not eat food. That's right, it turns them into machines who run on sheer determination alone. Remember what I said about wanting robots to operate my fields back when I talked about food? Well here we go.

So, for our food economy, this means the following: A peasant, who normally consumes 4 crops an annum, now doesn't. His production surplus, after personal consumption, on a scrubland fief, turns from a meagre 0.2 (4.2 - 4.0 = 0.2) into the full 4.2! Do you know how many peasants it takes to produce a surplus of 4.2 without this building? 21. In summary, this means that, figuratively speaking, the storehouse turns 1 peasant into 21 peasants. It can house 100 people per storehouse built (which I see no maximum limit of), so to find out how much peasant value (can we make this a term? abbreviate it PV or something) is created, you just multiply by 100, so on a scrubland, a storehouse full of peasants turns 100 of them into 2100. Scrublands start out with 3000 people, so you're technically creating roughly 70% more peasants. Or in other words, your PV is improved by 70%. That's so nuts!

It should be said that storehouses rapidly degrade in power. On an infertile fief, it only multiplies by 11, and on a fair fief, it multiplies by 7.66~. Then comes 6, 5, and it goes downhill from there (if there even are more fertility levels than that). So, all things considered, this is only an early game boost for your shit fiefdoms, as I would consider twice if I would want to build it even in a fair fiefdom, let alone higher ones. This also means that if you upgrade your fertility, you are actively devaluing your storehouses, so that's something to bear in mind, though this effect is also less dramatic at higher fertility levels.

Edit 2: Actually, some more questions, various subjects. We don't directly control our vassals' actions, like give orders for them, right? I read we can move their levies apparently, but we don't have to build up their infrastructure as well, and conduct trade missions on their behalf?

Next, can I trade with my vassals? Can I trade between my own towns, if I have 2 or more?

How are the costs of Manors, Walls and Town Fortifications handled? Are they additive, for example 10.000 for Basic Town Fort., plus 25.000 for Improved Town Fort., thus totalling 35.000 for the latter, or can I go from nothing to Improved for a straight 25.000 (meaning it costs only 15.000 to upgrade from the first tier)?

Edit 3: Yes, this is a long one. Does it take travel times for a letter to be sent from one lord to another, if both are sitting in their respective kingdoms, and are not at court (but may have a representative of course)? Logic dictates it does, but the rules are a bit ambiguous on this.
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Quite some number crunching there.
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Ashgan said
Glad to hear this. I got another question as I contemplate building choices: Is there overlap between the Watch Tower and the Town Guardhouse? Both seem to spot sneaky parties and guard trade routes. Is there a point in getting both? I did some more math guys! Maybe you all realized this already, but in case you didn't, I feel this is some good information:Storehouses. They're super efficient at low-fertility fiefdoms! So they can contain up to 100 people, preferably peasants, and make them not eat food. That's right, it turns them into machines who run on sheer determination alone. Remember what I said about wanting robots to operate my fields back when I talked about food? Well here we go.So, for our food economy, this means the following: A peasant, who normally consumes 4 crops an annum, now doesn't. His production surplus, after personal consumption, on a scrubland fief, turns from a meagre 0.2 (4.2 - 4.0 = 0.2) into the full 4.2! Do you know how many peasants it takes to produce a surplus of 4.2 without this building? 21. In summary, this means that, figuratively speaking, the storehouse turns 1 peasant into 21 peasants. It can house 100 people per storehouse built (which I see no maximum limit of), so to find out how much peasant value (can we make this a term? abbreviate it PV or something) is created, you just multiply by 100, so on a scrubland, a storehouse full of peasants turns 100 of them into 2100. Scrublands start out with 3000 people, so you're technically creating roughly 70% more peasants. Or in other words, your PV is improved by 70%. That's so nuts!It should be said that storehouses rapidly degrade in power. On an infertile fief, it only multiplies by 11, and on a fair fief, it multiplies by 7.66~. Then comes 6, 5, and it goes downhill from there (if there even are more fertility levels than that). So, all things considered, this is only an early game boost for your shit fiefdoms, as I would consider twice if I would want to build it even in a fair fiefdom, let alone higher ones. This also means that if you upgrade your fertility, you are actively devaluing your storehouses, so that's something to bear in mind, though this effect is also less dramatic at higher fertility levels. Actually, some more questions, various subjects. We don't directly control our vassals' actions, like give orders for them, right? I read we can move their levies apparently, but we don't have to build up their infrastructure as well, and conduct trade missions on their behalf?Next, can I trade with my vassals? Can I trade between my own towns, if I have 2 or more?How are the costs of Manors, Walls and Town Fortifications handled? Are they additive, for example 10.000 for Basic Town Fort., plus 25.000 for Improved Town Fort., thus totalling 35.000 for the latter, or can I go from nothing to Improved for a straight 25.000 (meaning it costs only 15.000 to upgrade from the first tier)?


I'm drunk, but I'll answer all your questions to the best of my current capabilities:

You'll likely find out how morale works during battle simply by the actions that come about. In general, I've found the standard things that you would think would affect a soldiers morale would degrade it, as the system is kind of like the. . . there was that formula whose name escapes me, but it's used to figure out the likelyhood of certain outcomes using custom variables.

I will say the original system I had was flawed, in that it relied on these custom variables too much, thus allowing me, or any GM using to make the outcome of the battle go as they want it by ignoring or factoring in minor details. I have since fixed it, by making concrete lists of what can and can't give bonuses, as well as making formulas for deciding certain things like whether a force is vastly inferior to another, or whether a force will obey an order and such.

Regardless, I must say that morale and discipline are both important things, and are good to have if you want them, but should not be overdone. Don't try to turn your whole army into elite badasses; 1,000 unruly peasants who've seen one battle are still a match for 300 guardsmen who've done nothing but train for a year.

For whether certain things can inspire soldiers, there are a few things on the list [ I try to keep the items vague, yet not uncertain enough that I can be tempted into fudging results ] that can fill what you're looking for, but only battle can be the test for your ideas.

As for the storehouses, I think I meant to put a limit on those, but forgot while I was preparing lunch/getting ready for work. I'll give it another look in the morning, and see if it needs one. But you got what I had in mind for them perfectly: they're meant to help out people who have large amounts of cruddy fiefs. They're also great for sieges.

For your vassals, it really depends on the vassal. You don't directly control any of your vassals, and you have to ask them to do anything, but some vassals are more obedient than others. They're subordinate to you, but more like a CEO to a President rather than a desk clerk to a manager. You can definitely trade with their towns. All towns have trade routes automatically going between them, but Caravans allow you to accrue both you and whoever owns the town income, if you allow the caravan to stay there. Which I'm not sure is in the rules, but it should be, so another thing for the to-do-list.

Hope that clears things up!

EDIT: In regards to your last thingy, yes, it does. If they have no-one at court [ and they have to specifically specify that, otherwise they just get some generic whatshisface ], then you must send them a letter, with travel times factored in, and the potential for the letter to be intercepted. If you just want to send a letter to a lord, even though they have a representative at court, travel times are still factored in. There's not much benefit to this, unless the situation at court is really tense, or you just don't trust Mr. Whatshisface.

EDIT 2: Also, Manor and Town defenses are not additive. You can just build whatever one you want, with no prerequisites.

And the benefit of building a Town Guard is that they can protect trade routes for you, whereas Watchtowers, while allowing you to respond to threats mid-season as if having posted patrols there, do not automatically protect anything. Also, guards reduce the chance of certain negative random town events happening. Another thing on the to-do list, clarify all this in the rules, heh.
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Flooby Badoop said For whether certain things can inspire soldiers, there are a few things on the list that can fill what you're looking for, but only battle can be the test for your ideas.

I'm basically banking on the exalted Blindseer, which has been described as being an icon of inspiration for the army, to actually function as such during a battle, as not doing so would invalidate its purpose to an extent (I still will enjoy the loving hell out of writing her involvement IC even if it does nothing). Other than that, sounds reasonable, even if finding out during the battle that your tactics don't work is a bit of a late point of realization.

Concerning storehouses, I actually don't think a limit on them is that necessary. The numbers, as I've put them, sound pretty huge, and in perspective they are, but they don't really break the game I think. Peasant value aside, realistically, every store house still only gives you a direct benefit of 400 crops per annum added to your total. At 5 storehouses, you gain 2000 crops. Measure that up to my current crops surplus of 35.432 crops per annum, and it's not that huge, turning it into 37.432 crops per annum, ergo a 5,6% increase. This means each storehouse would give my personal economy only about 1.1% more crops per annum, and my food economy isn't even strong - it's functional. These percentages become even smaller for someone who produces more than I do. So, personally, I believe that if somebody wanted to build like 20 storehouses to give themselves roughly 20% or so more crops production without wanting to (or being able to) upgrade their fertilities, is perfectly reasonable, considering storehouses aren't free either.

Thanks for clearing the rest up, yo.

Edit: Are all towns connected via trade routes, no matter their distance? If there's no range limit, that would technically mean that a town gains tariffs from trading with every single other town on the continent? It feels pretty unreal, so I'm asking for clarification here. If there is a range limit, where do we draw the line? I looked at the positioning of all towns, and it turns out that pretty much none of my direct neighbors bothered to get any, so most towns are a huge distance from he, and I want to know how many I can access.
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Flooby, take a shower now. My Courtier can't be drunk.
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So Boerd: Do you want to start the game with our food contract already in place? I.e. The 20,000 bullis will already be on board a ship heading to you, and likewise for the food? That way for the first round you'd have 20k more to spend, and my people wouldn't be starving?
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