[OOC] From Stardust, To Stardust

[King Solterra]

Zamiel said
Been watching this RP for a while, and the impression I am getting about FTL mechanics is that... there are none. You just pop in and out however and wherever you like with no limitation. It that accurate?

Do whatever you want man.

[Zamiel]

Cale Tucker said
Do whatever you want man.

As someone who doesn't know/care about the drama here: why is placing limits even a question?

Its not even that it is op. It is that it has no room for gameplay... there is no strategy possible.

What rational thing can you say to reason in favor of that current state.

[Kyelin]

@wilson

I don't think an RP wide FTL change is needed. Roleplayers should not be playing to win, they should be playing for story. But if someone does warp out instantly when you try to kill them, maybe you need to research an FTL jammer?

This goes for the random too

[WilsonTurner]

Zamiel said
As someone who doesn't know/care about the drama here: why is placing limits even a question?Its not even that it is op. It is that it has no room for gameplay... there is no strategy possible.What rational thing can you say to reason in favor of that current state.

There are no limits, and you can do whatever the hell with it.

[Kyelin]

Why is no one acknowledging me :'(

[Zamiel]

Kyelin said
@wilsonI don't think an RP wide FTL change is needed. Roleplayers should not be playing to win, they should be playing for story. But if someone does warp out instantly when you try to kill them, maybe you need to research an FTL jammer?This goes for the random too

Definitely! But who is there to draw the line and judge "hey, that shouldn't be a thing that happens because there is no counterplay". Every time a question like that arises you are going to argue and argue and argue. For the sake of immersion, why would you not come together and decide a list of things that are not allowed (pop up above a planet, drop planet cracker). Then pick one of the myriad sf explanations as to why they are not allowed.

People's rp codes of honor differ. If you yourself would never do a certain thing because it would not be "fair", then why be opposed to preventing others from doing it to you.

FTL jammers make it even worse imo. Now not only planets are helpless sitting ducks, but also fleets.

[Kyelin]

That would stop fleets from retreating without damage. But in the end, some people will be reasonable with that stuff, and others won't. This RP has been put together to allow for complete imaginative and role playing freedom. Some people will abuse that.

[Zamiel]

Kyelin said
That would stop fleets from retreating without damage. But in the end, some people will be reasonable with that stuff, and others won't. This RP has been put together to allow for complete imaginative and role playing freedom. Some people will abuse that.

So you present your argument and refute yourself?

People abuse imaginative and role playing freedom --> People do not like it and want to prevent people from ruining their fun

[Kyelin]

If you read it that way, sure. My argument is that I'd prefer the freedom and self nerf, than have a scenario where some factions are more powerful purely because of the FTL rules.

People should counter this thing IC. You can, after all, do almost ANYTHING

[ASTA]

Zamiel said
As someone who doesn't know/care about the drama here: why is placing limits even a question?Its not even that it is op. It is that it has no room for gameplay... there is no strategy possible.What rational thing can you say to reason in favor of that current state.

How does retreating using FTL NOT involve strategy? Do you people honestly believe that a military force can keep up a perpetual offense without having to default to a tactical withdrawal or a defensive drive at some point in the future?

[Zamiel]

Kyelin said
If you read it that way, sure. My argument is that I'd prefer the freedom and self nerf, than have a scenario where some factions are more powerful purely because of the FTL rules.People should counter this thing IC. You can, after all, do almost ANYTHING

If everyone held to that RP code of honor we would not be here discussing it. Clearly someone, or multiple people, used it in a way that others considered to be "playing to win" rather than what you wish them to do by "self nerfing". It would be great, everything would work out, and nobody would complain if that is how it played out. But it didn't / isn't, this is not a utopia. From there, do you keep pretending everyone is reasonable and purely playing for story? Or do you initiate war of the godmodders by coming up with something even more overpowered to deal with it (which someone will then top)?

ASTA said
How does retreating using FTL NOT involve strategy? Do you people honestly believe that a military force can keep up a perpetual offense without having to default to a tactical withdrawal or a defensive drive at some point in the future?

That is not strategy. That is literally the only thing that can be done. One you have to pick one out of one option, that is not strategy. It becomes zero options if the race does not posses FTL or other guy has "jammers". Is having zero options strategy?

[Zamiel]

oops

[Kyelin]

@Zamiel

All valid points. It's up to the GM and Co-GM/s to decide what to do. No matter what action they choose, someone is going to not like it. All toucan do is play to the majority. Which is what this RP has done, by not changing FTL rules.

I'm at work, so my activity is going to significantly decrease. Responses will take a while

[King Solterra]

Retreating using FTL making strategy has the same amount of strategy as laying your pencil down without dropping it after sharpening it. It doesn't take a genius to run

[Kyelin]

Wouldn't that be optimal strategy? The easiest and most effective way of avoiding losses? Just because it's super easy doesn't make it a bad strategy. I think it's called First Order Optimal Strategy, or something. Look it up if you guys are interested in the subject. It's not the best, and countered by good roleplay, but it gives less experienced players an edge

What people need to realise is that this Rp is very casual with its science, and writing in general

[Zamiel]

I wonder. It would be incredibly interesting to play a faction towards whom nobody holds back, to the full extent of physics. "lol my asteroids with drives just appeared a few meters above all your planets."

[Kyelin]

There was a faction of miniature living galaxies that consumed consciousness. There were limits, common sense and gameplay ones, so things like that were out of the question.

[Kyelin]

And my faction is immortal, with the largest fleet (technically) and the most advanced weaponry. Robot ghosts, in essence.

[Apollo26]

I hate being that guy, but didnt you quit already Cale? and your still here stoking the flames of the argument.

[Keyguyperson]

Cale Tucker said
Retreating using FTL making strategy has the same amount of strategy as laying your pencil down without dropping it after sharpening it. It doesn't take a genius to run

It does take a genius to stop a fleet from retreating (depending on their type of FTL). Since warp drive works entirely in real space, if the fleet was surrounded, then it would be horrific if they jumped out. Ever read about what happens if a baseball hits a planet at near light speed? Turns out the entire star system is destroyed due to a chain reaction started by the planet turning into plasma. Retreating at FTL speeds while surrounded would be a very, very bad idea compared to just letting yourself die. Of course, there might be gaps, which the retreating fleet would need to identify and exploit before being obliterated.

Restrictions on FTL should be placed by the players, not the staff. This RP has a different FTL for basically every species, it's not like Star Trek where everyone uses a vaguely defined magic engine that make ships go at the speed of the plot. I personally like to go over the limitations and dangers of my Warp Drive. For example, if a ship does not move radiation and particle buildup to the aft section, then it will literally vaporize a system. If it's not perfectly positioned, it will vaporize a system behind it. Both of those result in the loss of the ship. If the system that moves particles to the back is damaged (thus making it not move particles at all), then the ship will be instantly shredded by the subatomic particles that pop in and out of existence in a vacuum. Basically, warp drive is extremely dangerous for pretty much anyone anywhere. As is firing a railgun (we all know the quote from Mass Effect 2).

These problems could create great story. Imagine a merchant vessel accidentally destroying an outlying trading post? That's war material right there. If not war, then reparations equal to the value of an entire solar system. To pay them back for that, the UTF would quite literally have to give the entire Sol system to whoever operated that trading post. There could be a wreckage field spread out over light years over the years, every ship sent to it mysteriously disappearing. An ancient railgun slug could begin to fall towards an inhabited planet, forcing an alien ship to sacrifice itself to save the colony in a declaration of good faith. Sure, those are unlikely, but they can happen. So we can have them happen here.