[OOC] The Blood Compact

[thewizardguy]

Darkness is localized. Hence he cannot travel across the country continuously at his current speed as in crossing outside of the field of darkness he would be unable to retain current speeds. His ability is also only retained at night, which is defined by the presence of natural sunlight. Hence while he could travel across the country using his speed, he can use another power far more easily to appear appropriately (his water travel abilities). And of course that is the point of the debate isn't it? You have science and I have magic. attempting to explain magic with science is tedious at best. As even you have yet to provide the formula which sustains life, (I may do so actually with having a Purge scientist, already working up on the concepts, I'd reckon it would be a throwback to modernized alchemy which how Crowley refined a sample for Bedivere. A similar process could be used to create the unknown formula. Although explaining the science of it's mechanics is tedious at best.) As for the localization Currently it is over Kilo Point, and removal of his presence from Kilo Point, and hence Excalibur, would slowly return the area to its natural order of light. Doing the same to an entire country would take far longer, and cause much greater concern. Hence please do not find the set up in creating a battlefield of darkness (especially at night) so unreasonable to do in 2-3 posts. I mean your purge members managed to do far more in 2-3 posts with your machines in setting up the battlefield after all. Anyways, we are in limbo.

@The Grey Dust

Once more. Light-speed. Once you have set up your area, you are impossible to defeat, or even harm in any feasible way. Furthermore, you gain the ability to instantly kill anyone within the zone. Had I given Kami no Kage the ability to call in laser-based orbital weaponry to instantly annihilate targets after setting it up, this would have annoyed you as well. Any ability that results in unavoidable instakill capabilities requires SEVERE penalties. It requiring some time to set up, and only functioning at night, still allows you to use it most of the time with ease. Seeing as how there is no effective counter to this ability possible, it's overpowered. My counterproposition would be to reduce Bedhivere's power to simply be more powerful at night, as his CS would imply. So at night, provided there are no powerful light sources nearby, he could move at nearly supersonic speeds, which makes him capable of instantly defeating anyone. However, it would allow the possibility of a counter - the use of light sources - and it would not cause the entire area to automatically shift to your advantage. Whilst still incredibly powerful, this ability would reduce Bedhivere from being capable of automatic annihilation. As it stands, I see no logical way for SOLDIER, or the Purge, to have any chance of victory whatsoever. If Bedhivere pleased, he could quite easily kill all of them instantly. Seeing as how Bedhivere's motivation is to destroy humanity, it's going to take constant bullshitting to prevent him from doing just that.

[The Grey Dust]

Solider nor purge could win. This is correct. Gabriel influences fate itself with his power to make a fatal attack miss. Hence they would be unable to kill vampires at all. What is stopping Bedivere is simple. It is as he said. War changes nothing. One battle proves nothing. Humanity will survive and fight on at massacre for fear breeds hate which brings rebellion. To crush hope and throw them into despair places them under the yoke. This brings change. Let's let a GM decide on what should happen.

[Wraithblade6]

Oh Gabe has no power over fate. He mind controlled Kami.

[The Grey Dust]

Oh Gabe has no power over fate. He mind controlled Kami.

@Wraithblade6

From that range. Impressive. Even past the electromechanical interface.

[Wraithblade6]

We want characters to have awesome powers but the general guideline of Compact has always been "no 'magic.'" In order to avoid unicorns and fairies, you want to have some kind of quasi logic for your powers. It absolutely doesn't have to be so real enough that it could work in reality. Think "X-men" kind of stuff. You might also be able to get away with soul powers, communicating beyond the grave, and shapeshifting, and telekinesis, talking to plants, etc. I love variety and creativity, and you guys are fantastic at that. I'd also allow holiness/desecration as a source of or influence on your powers, potentially. Any comments on that Shikaru? What's "magic?" It's vague. Run your ideas by me. I'm not strict. I'll just try to keep things reasonable and more-or-less fair. I have to allow shapeshifting because werewolves are awesome and we want them, therefore size-changing should be overlooked to a degree, but I can't very well let one character change into a particle. I beleive there should be some kind of physical matter substance that your characters soul is attached to, otherwise we get disembodied characters. I also want people to limit their shifting to ONE, or maybe a couple, familiar things. I can't see any logical-ese for teleporting. However, you could "become one with the shadows" and move very quickly through them, but it can't be as fast as electricity or light. Shadow-shifting would count as some kind of partial matter-to-energy conversion... Hell, I don't know. You could have enough speed that you are hardly able to be seen, and maybe that makes your look like you're teleporting. Super sonic would be ok, and that is FAST!. Nonetheless, there has to be a limit on range. ie. you still have to take a plane to get from NYC to LA in a decent time. In fact, these powers should ALL have some kind of energy consumption or require some level of concentration to do. Now, your character might be super-good at them, and might have more reach/speed/magnitude due to age or willpower, etc. We can be vague about that and discuss it on an individual basis in the OC. As an example, Mithias has a little pyrokinesis, but he'd have to focus hard to put a firepit out. He'd be really fast, but not as fast as Gabriel, or probably Magnus, and definitely not Bedivere in the dark. I feel he should be faster than Kami... ultimately, but Kami could potentially have more swordskill and evil ninja-tricks. Bedivere has incredible speed in darkness, the more darkness the better. Ok that's good. As far as your post goes, a thousandth of a milisecond is 1/one millionth of a second, which is way too damn fast. If it took under 1 second to kill that dude, I'm already blown away. Miliseconds should suffice. I think the light is a good counter. I'm ok with Bedivere having bird and wolf forms. Did you want anything else? try to stick to a theme. Anything 'Dracula' should probably be allowed. Wiz. Your super badass characters are always super badass, which I enjoy, but I am certain you occasionally intimidate the F---! out of other players. I think you should have your super-sharp word for Kami, cuz it's terrifying, but despite your well thought out logic for the science for it, it could not actually exist in the real world... well, not entirely as you imagine it would. There would be drawbacks like fragility, easily dulling, weakness to tempatures, response to shock, force, repeated physical stress, yadda yadda. I actually did some ceramic research back in college. Fascinating subject, but enlightening. An edge made of a single-layre lineup of Boron, or whatever molecules... isn't going to be able to "cut" through absolutely every substance, because in some cases it is going to have to disrupt ionic bonds, molecular bonds, and maybe even metallic bonds that could be much stronger than inter-molecular bonds, which it should be able to separate. If you wanted to flay between the phospholipid bilayres of a plasmalemma, then great! A monomolecular edge would be perfect. Maybe Kami should have some kind of sharpening sheath or apparatus that keeps it in repair during battles. That'd be fine, and I wouldn't even make you mention it in your posts. But be aware it could get shattered if struck with a bullet on the blade or melted if in an explosion or something. I'll give you that a cylindrical matrix structure would make it much more flexible and resistant to shattering. And as for Kami basically 1-shotting a character, I'm ok with that happening to my character. Wiz knew I'd be ok with it. I wouldn't expect Kami to be able to pull that off on anyone else willy nilly, and I would intervene on your behalf if you felt Wiz was being unfair. Kami nearly killing someone just enhances the fear factor for your guys. Don't underestimate your characters. Even badass vampires like mine do get unlucky sometimes. The bionic armor. Also being a big bio student, I can see a computer to biological interface working. Who knows what those futuristic japanese scientists came up with. But like any powers, there has to be some unspoken weaknesses. Maybe the cybornetic parts shorten his lifespan, or cause pain, or make him go crazy over time. Maybe he has to change a battery every once in a while, or inject liquified food, or sleep for long periods... Maybe the speed and strength that the armor confers has a timer on it and fails after so many seconds/minutes. In the end, we need some kind of power on the human side in this thread. They need to be good enemies for us. Technology is what humans have for weaponry and defense. Let them be scary, then it's more fun kicking their ass. I've been trying to mention the excessive darkness and windstorm in my last few posts, so as to acknowledge Mo's and Bed's abilities. I am sure Wiz has taken the changes in environment into account, but everyone should be reading each other's posts and know what's going on around them. Please everyone try to react to big unusual changes like that. Ok. Any more questions? I have a big IC post of my own half written, but I STILL can't finish it tonight. Tomorrow for sure. I'm planning on involving or referring to three of you.

[Wraithblade6]

Oh Gabe has no power over fate. He mind controlled Kami.

@Wraithblade6

From that range. Impressive. Even past the electromechanical interface.

@The Grey Dust

Wiz, I'm very curious about Kami's susceptibility to vampire mind manipulation. Can you tell us what his status is with that?

[The Grey Dust]

I had written out a reply far longer than this however it seems it did not copy correctly before I posted and timed out. It seems general consensus is in favor of nerfing. I actually reread my post as found out I meant 0.1 milliseconds. Rather than the fuddle conversion. That is, I originally planned out to use 0.1 milliseconds, but then switched to 10 thousands of a second without changing the milli portion. I'll remove the ability to change into any form, limiting it to a Wolf, a Raven, Mist, and a Red Dragon, but also remove the cap on when can use such power such that he may use them in daylight. The Red dragon is a nod to some legend. He can travel between 2 lakes, natural or man-made, in/near NY and LA. They count as bodies of water large enough. He needs no plane. Which is also why I question how did Kami even know of Lord Bedivere's presence in the U.S. as he simply traveled via water. Or how did Kami know of Lord Bedivere's connection to Arthurian legend as he became a recluse during those times only resurfacing during the Normans. I assumed some form of intelligence was done, but even still, he does not tend to introduce himself as Sir Bedivere of Camelot, but rather "The Collector." During daylight hours, his one asset is absent, hence it is then when he is most vulnerable. During night hours, unless he uses his sword, modern technology renders his power useless as lights are everywhere in a city as already pointed out. Hence what utility does this have in modern times? Hence why he is designed to have unmatched speeds during the darkness as in the old days, there were no such lights and he would be a truly powerful force. It is an antiquated power which is befitting of the old knight. I will make the speed capped at Mach 3.2. However, do note that Bedivere is ridiculously easy to kill during the day. Especially when he is resting in his water bath per his Draculian coffin to maintain his power. All Kami needs to do is to find Camelot (it's somewhere in Wales), find lord Bedivere's resting place, stab him with a silvered stake. Or alternatively, drop high voltage into the water and watch him fry. Or even bring along a priest to pray over and bless the water and suddenly turn it into holy water. Here are the restraints to magic. What are the restraints to Technology? Kami's also got a magical compound running through him to extend his life, and I assume provide nourishment. His suit materials offer him general protection against the elements. I question if pain means anything due to the dose of narcotics he has for his increase reaction times. There is no mention of limit to his mechanized muscles with respect to time, nor energy consumption. His batteries I had mentioned earlier but again that is a grey area. Hence as technology advances, and stretches into the realm of magic, should it too have a limit?

[Rusalka]

Morning folks....or evening...which ever. ^.^

[thewizardguy]

Let me clarify Gabe: Gabriel is a boss. Although it has never been previously established just HOW old he is, suffice to say he's old enough to have met Cain in person, and have been worshipped by the Mesopotamians. He is absolutely ancient, and he was created for the purpose of being a mystical, mysterious, thing. Now, the whole 'no magic' thing has already been shattered, this run has a lot more magic than previous ones (where Mith's pyrokinesis was a topic of debate, and Gabriel was the magicalest magic-man out there) so he's no longer as magical as he used to be. However, he's still massively psionic, capable of great mental feats. Gabriel can instil emotions in people, create illusions, generate insanity, read minds, and do many other things. He has never, however, 'mind controlled' someone. The act of mind control takes control away from a player, and this decreases people's fun. As such, I never plan on having Gabriel do anything like this. Instead, he merely shifted Kami's senses slightly, causing him to think the heart was a bit to the left. To balance out how rampantly powerful Gabriel is, I added in several factors. First off, he doesn't pick sides. He has no intention of saving humans or vampires in particular, and doesn't care for either. He might interfere occasionally, for fun, but he isn't going to 'fix' the results of any battle. As such, he doesn't take agency away from the players - their actions are still what determines the outcome of the battle, and the story as a whole. Furthermore, while this has almost never come up, Gabriel is physically weak. While he's still stronger than a human by far, his strength is barely above that of a Newblood, and any Oldblood should be able to beat him down in a physical confrontation. I created this so that, if one takes into account Gabriel's capabilities, there is an effective counter to them and chance of defeating him. He's certainly powerful, but use of robots, drones or people like Mith (who are immune to psychic tampering) will nullify his greatest abilities. Thus, to me, are the basic rules of making an overpowered character. If one 'side' has a truly OP character, then other character's actions become irrelevant compared to this overpowered character. In order to preserve agency, overpowered characters must always be neutral in a conflict. Furthermore, there must always be a method available to defeat them, if necessary they should serve as a 'boss battle' for other players to gang up against.

[thewizardguy]

I had written out a reply far longer than this however it seems it did not copy correctly before I posted and timed out. It seems general consensus is in favor of nerfing. I actually reread my post as found out I meant 0.1 milliseconds. Rather than the fuddle conversion. That is, I originally planned out to use 0.1 milliseconds, but then switched to 10 thousands of a second without changing the milli portion. I'll remove the ability to change into any form, limiting it to a Wolf, a Raven, Mist, and a Red Dragon, but also remove the cap on when can use such power such that he may use them in daylight. The Red dragon is a nod to some legend. He can travel between 2 lakes, natural or man-made, in/near NY and LA. They count as bodies of water large enough. He needs no plane. Which is also why I question how did Kami even know of Lord Bedivere's presence in the U.S. as he simply traveled via water. Or how did Kami know of Lord Bedivere's connection to Arthurian legend as he became a recluse during those times only resurfacing during the Normans. I assumed some form of intelligence was done, but even still, he does not tend to introduce himself as Sir Bedivere of Camelot, but rather "The Collector." During daylight hours, his one asset is absent, hence it is then when he is most vulnerable. During night hours, unless he uses his sword, modern technology renders his power useless as lights are everywhere in a city as already pointed out. Hence what utility does this have in modern times? Hence why he is designed to have unmatched speeds during the darkness as in the old days, there were no such lights and he would be a truly powerful force. It is an antiquated power which is befitting of the old knight. I will make the speed capped at Mach 3.2. However, do note that Bedivere is ridiculously easy to kill during the day. Especially when he is resting in his water bath per his Draculian coffin to maintain his power. All Kami needs to do is to find Camelot (it's somewhere in Wales), find lord Bedivere's resting place, stab him with a silvered stake. Or alternatively, drop high voltage into the water and watch him fry. Or even bring along a priest to pray over and bless the water and suddenly turn it into holy water. Here are the restraints to magic. What are the restraints to Technology? Kami's also got a magical compound running through him to extend his life, and I assume provide nourishment. His suit materials offer him general protection against the elements. I question if pain means anything due to the dose of narcotics he has for his increase reaction times. There is no mention of limit to his mechanized muscles with respect to time, nor energy consumption. His batteries I had mentioned earlier but again that is a grey area. Hence as technology advances, and stretches into the realm of magic, should it too have a limit?

@The Grey Dust

During the daylight hours, Bedhivere is as easy to kill as any other Oldblood, being very very hard. Not only would Holy Water not kill him, nor would electricity, but he has speed and strength superior to that of Kami no Kage. Unless you have some specific disability that makes you specifically weaker during the day, you're still an incredibly dangerous, fast-moving, nigh-unkillable, shapeshifting monster with expert swordsmanship capabilities. At the time I was unaware of Bedhivere's dedication to secrecy, and I made the assumption that he had arrived by plane. Seeing as how your ability does allow long-distance travel, I should not have made any such assumption. However, Kami no Kage would probably have obtained such information through the systematic slaughter and torture of vampires who had been associated with 'the Collector'. Although they're far harder to kill, this makes them far easier to torture, especially to one who specializes in such things. The limit of technology is that, at most, it brings Kami no kage on-level with the Oldbloods. Pretty much any blow that gets through his armor will instantly kill him. Killing a human being is easy, they have all these vital organs that all need to remain functional. If you break even one of them, he dies. He needs to eat, he needs to breathe. He needs to recharge once a day to keep his suit running. Even with this really badass suit, most oldbloods are still more powerful than he is, because he lacks all their magical abilities. Whatever way you look at it, humans are inferior to vampires in all aspects. As such, the Purge are an attempt to level the playing field a bit.

[The Grey Dust]

Well that's the problem isn't though. You assumed he was like any other old blood during the day. When in fact he isn't. in Daylight he loses the boost, including his 'base' vampric speed and power in direct sunlight, as part of the backbite of his attunement to darkness. Making him just a very long-lived human outdoors. Being immersed in holy water in lieu of his regular water would kill him as it would 1) prevent him from restoring his powers (per the draculian need of soil) and then 2) be akin to a lobster boil to severely damage him and since you have already interrupted his rest, he would be unable to regenerate the damage as fast. The electricity would have similar effects in effecting his body as again it would have damaged him during his rest. As for his Secrecy, he does not advertise his presence frequently, preferring to the shadows in manipulating the UK overtime. Hence which is why he and Magnus clashed at first. His method leads to domination, Magnus' leads to destruction. Bedivere believes in vampires being superior to humans and thus rightfully should rule over them as a farmer may his chickens. But in his long life, he had realized the age of kings failed because it did not establish the despair and hopelessness necessary to subjugate humans because they did not believe in the superiority of other human beings. If the chickens were ruled by a rooster, they merely replace the rooster with another. But chickens are ruled by a farmer. Yet farmers do not slaughter chickens to rule over chickens, they hatch birds, and breed birds, domesticating them for years to become what they are. For Bedivere establishing a vampire kingdom does not begin with a great war, but rather shadowy manipulation such that one day Humans would wake up and find themselves unwittingly serving their vampire overlords. This is his mantra. But if a chicken does get out of line, it would be best to cull what when needed, but not the entire hen house. So anyone one blow that gets through his armor will instantly kill him? That's like a vampire wearing full body armor made of the same material to prevent getting staked XD. Which seems reasonable, as they do not need the mechanical strength to use such a suit. There is actually a comic I saw once where a castle had these clocks which were off set by a few hours to trick the protagonists into thinking it was 8 o'clock when he would be facing his vampire adversary who came out with a breastplate to prevent him from being staked. After the evil laugh, the protagonist pulled opened the drapes to reveal he actually reset the clocks due to day light saving's time was ending to show their actual time.

[Wraithblade6]

Does anyone else have any concerns? Kidd? Arowen? Rusalka?

[thewizardguy]

Well, if during the day he's incredibly weak, I suppose it's far more balanced than I had originally perceived. Furthermore, the draculan coffine idea isn't a listed vampiric weakness. As such, it's unique to your character if you choose to include it.

[The Grey Dust]

I did actually. Read the cs as I have listed his abilities. I did try to balance him and restricted him to the night. But at night he is supreme.

[Rusalka]

Does anyone else have any concerns? Kidd? Arowen? Rusalka?

@Wraithblade6

I've none honestly, since I didn't wanna get mixed up in this mumbo jumbo, but I will say both have been giving agreeable arguments. So, I'mma stay Switzerland for the time being.

[thewizardguy]

Alright, I'd say we've more-less come to an agreement. Sorry we held up the posting for everybody, I hope there are no hard feelings.

[Wraithblade6]

Dibs on next post! Gyahh! Working too much!

[thewizardguy]

Nope, already posted. Also, seeing as how Shikaru is gone, I vote Wraith for new GM. Also, Matt is in a coma somewhere in a hospital, and SOLDIER has retreated all forces from the ensuing battles.

[Rusalka]

Nope, already posted. Also, seeing as how Shikaru is gone, I vote Wraith for new GM. Also, Matt is in a coma somewhere in a hospital, and SOLDIER has retreated all forces from the ensuing battles.

@thewizardguy

Oh balls DX That means the Jesus-Nazis Purge is gonna take over!!

[The Grey Dust]

Nope, already posted. Also, seeing as how Shikaru is gone, I vote Wraith for new GM. Also, Matt is in a coma somewhere in a hospital, and SOLDIER has retreated all forces from the ensuing battles.

@thewizardguy

Oh balls DX That means the Jesus-Nazis Purge is gonna take over!!

@Rusalka

Well, might as well stop there then and reconsider our tactics. The Purge is as team of vampire hunters. Not Human protectors. They require another form of combat to effectively fight.