[OOC] Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

[Lady Seraphina]

In 'Gugure! Kokkuri-san' the self-proclaimed doll throws salt at Kokkuri-san, a spirit.

@KabenSaal

I looked it up. Gugure! Kokkuri-san was serialized in 2011. Supernatural has been on the air since 2005. By the time Gugure! Kokkuri-san was written Supernatural was well into its sixth season. By that point it was popular enough that its popularization of using salt against demons and ghosts would be known even by those that weren't a fan of the show. More than likely the writer got the idea even if indirectly from Supernatural and not some old mythology or legend.

[Crimmy]

You've ... never read Spiderwick, have you?

[HereComesTheSnow]

no its always supernatural crummy shush

[MULTI_MEDIA_MAN]

Clearly not, with how much people seem to be haunted by theirs

@Krayzikk

Well, being child soldiers tends to have an adverse effect on the psyche

[HereComesTheSnow]

17 ain't much younger than the average recruit

[Lady Seraphina]

You've ... never read Spiderwick, have you?

@Crimmy

I've never read them no, but doesn't Spiderwick deal with fairies, goblins and brownies? Salt has a very different connotation with them. There is an old legend that says that if you spill salt in front of a fairy they have to count all the grains immediately (this is related to the superstition about throwing salt over your shoulder if you spill it). In some works of literature this has evolved into fairies having an actual weakness against salt but I've never actually read Spiderwick so I don't know the context with which they use it.

When did we start talking about child soldiers?

[Onarax]

Actually Salt has been used to ward off evil spirits in a bunch of Asian cultures. Buddhism and Shintoism coming to mind in particular.

A random book from 1988 makes it easily predate Supernatural (Which Spiderwick did already). I'm also pretty sure that there is some evidence in Roman Tradition as it would be used as an offering to the gods often times to keep malice out of the house.

Christianity has also used it as a curse to keep all things out.

"Abimelech fought against the city all that day, and he captured the city and killed the people who were in it; then he razed the city and sowed it with salt." (Judges 9:45)

[Lady Seraphina]

Actually Salt has been used to ward off evil spirits in a bunch of Asian cultures. Buddhism and Shintoism coming to mind in particular.

A random book from 1988 makes it easily predate Supernatural (Which Spiderwick did already). I'm also pretty sure that there is some evidence in Roman Tradition as it would be used as an offering to the gods often times to keep malice out of the house.

Christianity has also used it as a curse to keep all things out.

"Abimelech fought against the city all that day, and he captured the city and killed the people who were in it; then he razed the city and sowed it with salt." (Judges 9:45)

@Onarax

Warding off bad luck and actually fighting demons with it are too different things. It was considered a symbol of purity as I've already said so using it in sacrifices or to stave off curses wouldn't be all that unusual. It was never a direct weapon against satanic forces until Supernatural though.

That bit at the end about sowing the city with salt had nothing to do with religious practices or warding off evil. If you salt the earth it ensures that nothing will grow there again. In ancient wars it wasn't an unusual practice to salt enemy farms and cities after conquering if you didn't intend to take them as your own. It ensured that your enemy wouldn't be able to rebuild. At least not easily.

[Onarax]

Did you read the part in the link where it said it exorcises evil spirits? Pretty sure that's as explicit as it gets.

Also yes sowing the fields was used, but based upon the original texts and the bible being full of double meanings it was also meant to be a full blown curse.

[HereComesTheSnow]

double meanings are too hard

[Krayzikk]

I'm honestly amused the whole use of the term "salt" was overlooked.

[Crimmy]

I'm honestly amused the whole use of the term "salt" was overlooked.

@Krayzikk

Must've been too bitter to realise.

[Lucius Cypher]

Everyone is so salty.

[harinezumikouken]

Everyone is so salty.

@Lucius Cypher

I can provide the "sugar" to balance things out.

Hue.

[Onarax]

I got more curious and thus found some more stuff directly linking it to American tradition. 1896 is the date so once more it can't be blamed on Supernatural.

"Salt, as a preservative principle, is a talisman and protection against evil spirits" (58)

Title: Memoirs of the American Folk-Lore Society. Vol. IV. Current Superstitions
Author(s): Fanny D. Bergen and W. W. N.
Source: The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. 9, No. 32 (Jan. - Mar., 1896), pp. 55-66
Stable URL: jstor.org/stable/532996

[Lady Seraphina]

Did you read the part in the link where it said it exorcises evil spirits? Pretty sure that's as explicit as it gets.

Also yes sowing the fields was used, but based upon the original texts and the bible being full of double meanings it was also meant to be a full blown curse.

@Onarax

You linked me to an entire novel for which I have no cultural context. "Evil Spirits" could mean any number of things. Ancient Christianity believed fevers were sent from the devil. It could easily be that salt has some sort of medicinal use in Korean culture but as I have no cultural context I couldn't say for sure. Evil spirits could also refer to things such as bad luck, or witch curses for which salt as a purifying agent would likely have been used. It was never used as a weapon against demonic forces or prevented them crossing the threshold of a house. That was a liberty taken on the part of Supernatural. Salt I will admit played a role in several ancient mythologies similar to how incense does in Christianity today. However it never had any offensive implications towards the demonic element.

And I still don't know anything about Spiderwick so using it as an example doesn't do me much good unless you want to explain exactly how it applied to the discussion.

You can't cite hypothetical double meanings which are completely up to interpretation as a source. You could argue the true meaning of the bible till doomsday and you still wouldn't have any proof of what you think it says.

[HereComesTheSnow]

just stop pretending you know everything

[Krayzikk]

Honestly, PoS, you can't call an interpretation of several very clear mythologies "not evidence", and then not provide any evidence that there is no historical basis.

[Onarax]

Today I learned that Evil Spirits are not actually Evil Spirits.

Who knew?

[HereComesTheSnow]

It's not evidence unless you are personally repelling demons with it

Paladins and Clerics thy time is now