[OOC] Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

[SevenStormStyle]

Hmmm...all of this character study is giving me ideas for a Christmas contest.

[Krayzikk]

<Snipped quote by Krayzikk>

I took the term 'bad guy' as the deciding factor here. To me, bad guy is not debatable; to have bad as the main qualifier, you've got to be doing so much bad that the label envelops the character. This isn't Wreck-it Ralph. To be on the opposing side isn't enough, and to accomplish good things in bad ways is to be degrees of an anti-hero. The reason Grane qualified is because he hasn't accomplished anything good, and it's up to real debate whether or not he ever will. That's part of the tragedy. It makes him a bad guy; all the great things that Ben has done for people make him a good guy with a bad rap by some people. If I want evil, I'd rather have an evil character than just evil methods. I'll admit that evil is a broad term, and murderlusting serial killers have a place there at one end of the spectrum, but I'm not at all, I don't think, encouraging a generic standard. The top five entries were all unique, despite the fact that they all killed people.

As for you bringing up the canon...why? Our contests are something that's non-canon in a non-canon fan work of an actual thing. The most creative liberties can be taken here.

I'm sorry my judging style didn't appeal to you. I can't give a real metric of what I like and don't like, and the limited scope of what I ask for compared to the massive spectrum of what I got. I could only draw the line in the sand after combing the beach. If that makes me suck as a judge, so be it, but if nobody makes a contest for a month, I'll be the one that does it, and people have only to not participate to make me stop.

@Lugubrious

I'm not saying you're a bad judge, but your apparent standards...

Do not match up with what "villain" or "bad guy" means at all. A villain or a bad guy is not someone for whom being evil is their sole defining characteristic, and a villain for whom "evil" is the most notable character trait is a really poor villain. Villains and bad guys are the antagonistic force in their respective work of fiction, and that means that the relative morality of a setting (and the morality of its heroes) are what defines the line between being a "good guy" and being a "bad guy".

This is the definition of a villain;

a character in a story, movie, etc., who does bad things

: a person who does bad things

: someone or something that is blamed for a particular problem or difficulty

Wreck-It-Ralph follows these definitions to a tee; all of the "villains" are just villains because that's their job. The movie's actual villain, and the only one that actually constitutes a villainous influence, falls on the opposite end of the line between a setting's good and evil forces.

Gratia is a fantastic entry. At the same time, she could qualify as the villain in a setting like Game of Thrones. In RWBY, she would be a monster to such a degree that she would never even make it onto the show. Napoli could be the Designated Evil Teammate in a dark enough setting. Emerald, meanwhile, would be a light and soft enough villain that she could feasibly be used in a kid's show.

By your standards, a villain needs to be completely evil; beyond any measure of good left in them. Hell, if you call "doing good things in bad ways" an Anti-Hero, the White Fang are Anti-Heroes.

What defines a villain is their status as the antagonistic force in a story. What could be a villain in RWBY could be a saint in Game of Thrones. I mention RWBY canon because RWBY is, fundamentally, a black and white morality setting. Anything that grows too dark, like the White Fang, are villainous forces; they oppose the protagonists with evil methods. Every one of the entries, by the metric of a fundamentally black and white setting, is villainous.

I have no complaints about the winners selected; but I honestly have every complaint about the standards of the contest, given that every entry fell within the parameters offered up in the contest descriptor. To disqualify an entry because they're "not bad enough", when by the standards of the game so far and the show this game is based on they're all well past the line of "antagonistic", is... Pretty questionable.

[Silvan Haven]

By the metric of this contest at least half the villains of the Metal Gear franchise are not actual villains.

[harinezumikouken]

<Snipped quote by Crimmy>

I just knew I'd see @harinezumikouken laugh at that. It was too dirty of a joke for him not to.

@Guess Who

You know me too well.

Now shut up or I'll sick Esther on Robert.

[Krayzikk]

By the metric of this contest at least half the villains of the Metal Gear franchise are not actual villains.

@Silvan Haven

Roman Torchwick is a nice guy, and Cinder has literally done nothing wrong. And the White Fang are anti-heroes.

By all the standards used here.

[Crimmy]

By the metric of this contest at least half the villains of the Metal Gear franchise are not actual villains.

@Silvan Haven

Never forget Laughing Octopus.

[Lady Seraphina]

@Prince of Seraphs, the most major reason why you're not ranking this time is inconsistency. So your character's a villain—that implies that they do bad things enough to be opposed by the heroes. Your character was neglected and abused as a child by her father, because her father hates faunus. In fact, he hated them enough to...marry one? And go mad with grief after her death? On the subject of her mother, it appears as if she was a Huntress or something similar given the nightmare blades and the 'secrets' that a little girl (read: ingenuity and disconnect with emotions and wants to normal children) learned before she was twelve, both before and after Melanie's death at age seven. In the personality section it says she's not angry, just dispassionate, but people who aren't angry continue to be abused indefinitely, not attack an abuser twice their height and likely triple their weight with enough force to pierce their ribcage and internal organs, or to get mad at a scumbag holding girls in his basement. On that subject as well, and the fate meted out to him: 'disassembled him, piece, by piece, by piece'. That sounds sociopathic to me. Sociopathy isn't lack of consciousness, but lack of an ability to form emotions like shame, guilt, sadness, or disgust. Also, being 'dead to the world' would imply that she's lost her principles, and yet she's principled enough to target bad people and not good ones in a sense of justice. How can a character be gorefest levels of insane sometimes and a honorable thief other times without being crazy? Additionally, on the subject of thieving: why did she turn to it? To survive? Then why'd she leave a calling card at each spot? For some purpose? What purpose? It's not clear.

I didn't choose you this time because you seemed to carve your character's personality and history out of conflicting traits, prioritizing drama over sense/continuity. To be fair, you wrote very well, and painted a vivid picture, and I liked the character. I'm being hard on you because you've requested my best critique in the past, and maybe a little because if I didn't go at you so hard, you'd win like every one of these contests.

@Lugubrious

My apologies I may have been unclear on this but Melanie was Not a faunus. She had faunus in her ancestory which is where Sapphire's wolf traits came from but Melanie herself was human. I realize there is no president for that but it was the only way I could make it work in the story and if you consider genetics then it is more than possible that faunus heritage is a recessive trait that will not be displayed by all that carry it.

About Melanie's secrets I think this is in Sapphire's CS on the Swansong doc but her semblance was polymathematics which essentially means that she is able to process numbers and see patterns like an advanced computer system. This mean that she was almost inhumanly skilled at the theoretical aspect of engineering and the physical just took practice. Because of her semblance Melanie's specialty was folding weapons, she could calculate the various forces required for folding technology to a very precise degree and so her weapons were far more compacted than comparable makes (she had several patents on these, part of the reason the Rodes family is really rich). When she was alive Melanie taught Sapphire math and explained engineering to her in basic principles (after all she was seven). After she died Sapphire spent a lot of time hiding in Melanie's workshop because she knew Janus wouldn't enter it. She studied her mother's notes and things and while she never understood to her mother's proficiency level Sapphire learned the basic concepts behind folding tech.

With regards to killing Janus even someone who is naturally not an angry person has a breaking point in which they will do something completely out of character. As for the force necessary to pierce Janus' ribcage she didn't actually hit him with that much strength. The daggers as previously noted are impact activated. When she hit him with it the dagger assembled itself and because they are designed to launch from Sapphire (or at this time Melanie's) wrists into there hands the boosters on the dagger are what propelled it into Janus and killed him.

Speaking of not being an angry person: the man she took apart, she wasn't angry when she did it. She was... upset perhaps but she didn't do it in rage. She was calm and collected the entire time. Perhaps his mistreatment of the girl reminded her of her father and in a way this was retribution for all the harm he'd caused her that she was never able to repay because he died so quickly.

As for the discontinuity of her actions from one event to the next I did say she was erratic, I may have not worded it as well as I should have but what I meant was that if exposed to the wrong stimuli her mood will change completely from being uncaring to slitting a guys throat. Also as said she has not sense of consequences or responsibility. She'd not willing kill someone who just happened to stumble on her but if she had to she wouldn't sleep any worse and if her presence led to someone else getting killed she'd have no sense of responsibility towards it. She also doesn't 'target' bad people, she works as a contract thief for basically anyone. If someone wanted her to steal the last dime a family had she'd do it. The morality doesn't come in often but she has rather a complex about her own situation. She reacts very badly to domestic abuse or girls too young to defend themselves being put in danger. Past that she doesn't really have a moral compass. I would not describe her as an honorable thief, she keeps collateral damage to a minimum but it wouldn't bother her if things got out of hand and she had to go to an extreme.

Last thing, I might not have made this clear but the calling card came later. When she first started stealing it was for survival purposes, she'd shoplift and pickpocket and take anything from anyone to help her survive. The calling card came after she started thieving professionally. She did it for two reasons. Firstly it was an advertisement, "If I can steal this painting from the most secured gallery in Vale I can steal anything you want me to.", secondly it was a cry for attention. Sapphire spent her life shunned and ignored by her siblings to a degree and abused by her father. Only two people ever truly took an interest in her, Melanie and her White Fang mentor. Both are now dead. The calling card was a way for her to draw attention to herself, to say: "I'm here, come and get me if you can."

I'm sorry if not all of that was clear in the entree but I did think this through. And thank you for the hard critique and the compliment.

Also I don't think you are allowed to deem yourself the winner of a contest. Otherwise everyone would make a contest, submit a halfassed entree and proclaim themselves the winner. I know you make the rules but I don't think most people are capable of seeing their own work honestly. Look at mine, I thought it was a work of art but evidently I left a bunch of things vague and difficult to quantify. I wouldn't have seen that reading my own writing so I don't think it is fair to judge yourself and put the crown on your own head because you see the work through rosy colored glasses, you know the work, the effort and likely a bunch of backstory that didn't make it into the CS that makes it much more appealing for you than it does to anyone else just reading the hard text.

After writing that it occurs to me that you might have done that as a joke but I'd still like some clarification.

[Guess Who]

<Snipped quote by Guess Who>

You know me too well.

Now shut up or I'll sick Esther on Robert.

@harinezumikouken

Do it! I dare ya'! I love making Robert make a fool of himself. You'll just be making it that much easier for me.

[Onarax]

<Snipped quote>
After writing that it occurs to me that you might have done that as a joke but I'd still like some clarification.

@Prince of Seraphs

Twas a joke, bottom of the contest he says I won the contest.

Also, for the record, I completely agree with what Krayzikk stated.

Definitely not because half of it came out of stuff I said on Skype

[harinezumikouken]

<Snipped quote by harinezumikouken>

Do it! I dare ya'! I love making Robert make a fool of himself. You'll just be making it that much easier for me.

@Guess Who

You asked for it.

[Write]

Didn't realize anyone could make a contest..

[Kaithas]

I got the next contest if no one else does. I remember there being some discussion about it earlier but I cannae remember the result.

Either way, I can't post the concept till morning.

[Lady Seraphina]

I got the next contest if no one else does. I remember there being some discussion about it earlier but I cannae remember the result.

Either way, I can't post the concept till morning.

@Kaithas

I believe I was going to judge the Villainous heroes writing challenge if no one else was willing to step up to the plate.

[Suku]

I think my team is waiting on BASL now am I correct?

[HereComesTheSnow]

senpais will notice us fam

[KabenSaal]

Phear my grand return!

[Crimmy]

You cut it real close.

[Kaithas]

<Snipped quote by Kaithas>

I believe I was going to judge the Villainous heroes writing challenge if no one else was willing to step up to the plate.

@Prince of Seraphs

Well, as much as I'm pumped for that contest I actually had one that was a break from prose and profile contests, just for a bit. Little bit of a goofy but fun intermission.

[Plank Sinatra]

Phear my grand return!

@KabenSaal

Nice post. I've always wondered what it's like to be the kind of son of a bitch who not only cuts it down to the eleventh hour, but shows that you really don't give a crap about what your team is up to or whether you're even remotely involved in what they do.

I thought Fallout 4 would be the biggest waste of energy expended this week, but reading your post has undertaken the not-so-mean feat of proving me wrong.

@Sho Minazuki, @Suku, @HereComesTheSnow, you have my sympathies.

[Write]

@Kaithas

I submitted some proof of concept to Lug for a contest idea, so hopefully that goes ever well, and then maybe we can either do my contest after yours or vice versa? Had the diea for it about two weeks ago I believe.