Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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Melon -

I'll need specific issues you have outlined (again) in regards to your match alone. If possible, please create it in a list format so I can easily address them.

I do appreciate your shift in tone with your last post.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Ladies, ladies, and germs, relax.

This has gotten far out of hand. Now, Innue has discussed his course of action with me, and I standby it - not because I hate any of you(except the Melon), but because as I said prior to tournament start - host calls the shot.

I will say though, the character seems a lot stronger than most, if not all, other characters in the same tournament. that's a reason I don't rate most naruto characters, or bleach ones, as proper arena fighters. They are categorically designed to be stronger, especially when used in roleplays where there is little moderation.

Jok should not have been put with Tuuj first round, because of the nerf to projectiles. it'll be difficult for any character to combat him. while the environment has its advantages, something like the cave system won't work. melon and innue are both right.

tuuj won't send his character down, and tuuj can't win that way.

now, if you guys can talk this out quiet like, then I'm sure we can work something out.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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The issues aren't really in regards to my match, as I've mentioned I'm trying to address an issue I feel will be bad for the competitors in following matches, it wouldn't be fair to say a character is overpowered just because my own character can't fight it very well. My match has just highlighted to me the abilities I mainly glossed over at first. (tbh, I thought the character's main form of offense was relatively short ranged knife like wind attacks, not large scale destruction) Which I've come to believe shows that the character is significantly out of place with the rest of the competition, usually a sign that it is overpowered for the tier range.

I can re-submit the abilities and reasons why I think there's an issue, but I think LeeRoy is about to do that anyway.

Just a quick note for now though, a remark I made earlier which has been misunderstood, I said the projectile I've nicknamed a death ball is as fast as a bullet because in this tournament it is, due to the nerfs on projectile speed. Also, because of the relatively low tier of most other characters in this tournament, it comparatively might as well be as fast as a bullet in real life, no character here can react fast enough to it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Boom


While all of their powers alone aren't problematic, and in fact, are pretty interesting.

The combination of all of them makes them so.

If this character was centered around one centric ability, rather than a combination of thematic abilities, they would be entirely balanced and I would have zero complaints.

However, here is a list of problems that should have been seen during the review process. (Hilariously enough, it is also the playerbase's fault for not noticing it sooner. We are not without blame, however, the major fault lies on the GM's shoulders.)

1: We don't speak japanese, what the fuck are Fuuton and Hyouton? Buncha specialty croutons if you ask me.

2: What are generic tools? A wrench? A hammer? Be more specific.

3: Moonspeak again, if I didn't already know what a Kekkei Genkai, Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Ice Release were. I would point it out in a heartbeat. Fortunately, I do, but to those who don't speak in Moonrunes there might be a language barrier.

Onto the Powers, in the order they are posted in the character sheet:

1: The ball of air that let's you fly? Totally fine. Works like a charm, allows the user to fly and provides some cool special effects. +1 style points. However, flight is a direct counter to melee based characters who cannot either fly or jump incredibly far. So I see Melon's complaint, though as a user of a flying character in this tournament myself, I cannot argue against it.

2: Here inlies the first and foremost problem. This barrier is too strong for this roleplay. Only three projectiles (That I can list off.) can penetrate it. This list includes his RPG, my projectile spheres, and JT Macleod's grenade. End of story, way too powerful.

Why do I say this? Well, it has nothing to do with the global nerf on projectiles. (Still salty about that, by the way.) It has to do with the mention of weight. No projectile in this roleplay, aside from the aformentioned, carry enough weight to penetrate the barrier without being cast aside as harmless pellets.

Without any way for any projectiles to sufficiently penetrate this barrier, it functionally makes this character immune to any long ranged assault. Which makes this character invulnerable to all combat. Period.

With the direct counter to melee abilities in her ability to fly, and with the direct counter to all projectiles in the same weight class as bullets, she has no weaknesses.

With no concievable way to combat this character other than crushing every ability she demonstrates(Which is impossible at this Tier.), she is unequivically the most powerful character in this roleplay.

Past this point is just butter on the already burnt toast.


3: Huge onslaught of Wind AoE allows her to push back pretty much anything, because there's really no mention of a weight limit on how much it can push. Though it does state that anchored objects can resist it. Again, no mention on what defines 'anchored.'

4: Huge circle of wind that allows nothing to pass in or out, no mention of a limit of what can and cannot pass through it. Meaning that literally nothing can pass through it, based on interperetation.

5: The constantly expanding sphere of wind that cuts everything that passes through it. No mention of an expansion rate or how large it starts and ends at.

6: Same sphere but unequivically better, still no size mention, shreds pretty much everything that enters it. If it cuts cleanly through leather and cuts deeply into flesh it's basically a death sentence if you don't avoid it. As well, if it hits you, you can't actually escape. So by basically a death sentence, I mean actually a death sentence.

7: If I'm reading this correctly, it makes the death sphere even bigger and allows her to control its trajectory. Which makes the inescapable death sentence a seeker missile.

8: Smaller versions of the death ball, though limited to two orbs per five minutes. No mention of expansion rate.

9: Guaranteed frostbite if you can't avoid it. Which you can't, because it's the air.

10: Basically the shield from before, except a projectile that freezes you.

11: Ten Two; Electric Boogaloo. It's the same thing, but freezes you faster. I'm assuming.

12: The ultimate death sentence. A huge sphere of wind that knocks you down if you weigh less than a tree, and freezes you solid into a block of ice. Period.

13: Huge storm of guaranteed frostbite in a 300 foot radius. Which means a 600 foot wide cylindrical aread.

14: Ice Beam, freezes you after it hits you.

It's not the abilities that are the problem, it's the guaranteed success of the abilities. Nobody can resist these. Apparently not even characters in higher tiers, because it states that it just happens. Instead of giving a chance to resist.

The case is closed yo, this is my last point in the argument. I wasn't even involved in this and it pissed me off, I can't imagine the frustration Melon's going through over it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by HeySeuss
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Final warning of what, calling you out? Calling someone else out? Oh no, I've put you on the spot for a major discrepancy. I'm such a bad person.

Warn me all you like, bucko, I'm telling you everything wrong with this situation regardless of your input.


Final warning as in the GM of a thread has power to ask you to leave or otherwise abide by their rules if they do not contravene Guild rules. (And if you keep going, then we step in and enforce that.)

So long as the above qualification is satisfied, they have great autonomy over their threads. You can always leave and start an arena fight more to your liking if you can't resolve your problems with the way Innue runs his show.

To quote the rules: "Don't make us go there."
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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The issues aren't really in regards to my match, as I've mentioned I'm trying to address an issue I feel will be bad for the competitors in following matches, it wouldn't be fair to say a character is overpowered just because my own character can't fight it very well. My match has just highlighted to me the abilities I mainly glossed over at first. (tbh, I thought the character's main form of offense was relatively short ranged knife like wind attacks, not large scale destruction) Which I've come to believe shows that the character is significantly out of place with the rest of the competition, usually a sign that it is overpowered for the tier range.

I can re-submit the abilities and reasons why I think there's an issue, but I think LeeRoy is about to do that anyway.


If it is not in regards to the specific match I will likely disregard it given that the Arena will be different for Round 2 and you do have ways to deal with him outside of your standard issue weapons. The difficulty for me is that part of this, from my perspective, is caused by the fact that there was an issue with you understanding that you were able to utilize the full scope of your weapons which would have provided options for you.

I would also prefer it from your side as LeeRoy is not in a position to be providing commentary on the matter.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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<Snipped quote by LeeRoy>

Final warning as in the GM of a thread has power to ask you to leave or otherwise abide by their rules if they do not contravene Guild rules.

So long as the above qualification is satisfied, they have great autonomy over their threads. You can always leave and start an arena fight more to your liking if you can't resolve your problems with the way Innue runs his show.

To quote the rules: "Don't make us go there."


I think there is an issue here, in that this tournament is an 'official ranked tournament' and the only one running at the time, any issues significantly effects the Arena leaderboards. If we allow GM's complete autonomy with no accountability they could do irreperable damage to the leaderboards for everyone in the Arena community by creating an unbalanced situation which gives the winner a large amount of points. This isn't like any other RP where we can all just throw up our hands and wander off, we all have a vested interested in the outcome of this tournament, and want it to be fair.

Innue: I can't help but feel that a character should be evaluated outside of the context of a specific map, I'm sure that the character could possibly be less overpowered for the competitors here in a ten foot by ten foot dome where flying is not an option, and the character is less likely to be able to prepare the death ball and other abilities, but that isn't a very likely scenario. In a tournament especially every character should be roughly balanced no matter what arena comes up, which is why its quite common to randomize the arena from a big compendium of arenas, as the judge you shouldn't really have to be placing environmental advantages in just to offset one characters powers. That suggests the issue is with the character.

At least, that's my opinion.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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I'm in plenty position to make commentary on the matter, as a member of the Roleplay with a genuine concern over an oversight that ruins the content of the roleplay by making it unfair to the rest of the userbase.

That's directed at both:
@Innue
and
@HeySeuss
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by HeySeuss
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Look at it this way, if my chosen solution gets implemented, everyone is just gonna cry harder than before.

I highly recommend adulting.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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I'm in plenty position to make commentary on the matter, as a member of the Roleplay with a genuine concern over an oversight that ruins the content of the roleplay by making it unfair to the rest of the userbase.

That's directed at both:
@Innue
and
@HeySeuss


You have been removed from participation based on consistently unacceptable behavior within my guidelines (especially after I issued multiple warnings). I have asked you politely to adhere to my criteria for participation. You have not done so, have been removed from the list of combatants and I will state clearly that I am asking you to refrain from posting on this thread.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Aight, cool. LeeRoy outtie 9000.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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<Snipped quote by HeySeuss>

I think there is an issue here, in that this tournament is an 'official ranked tournament' and the only one running at the time, any issues significantly effects the Arena leaderboards. If we allow GM's complete autonomy with no accountability they could do irreperable damage to the leaderboards for everyone in the Arena community by creating an unbalanced situation which gives the winner a large amount of points. This isn't like any other RP where we can all just throw up our hands and wander off, we all have a vested interested in the outcome of this tournament, and want it to be fair.

Innue: I can't help but feel that a character should be evaluated outside of the context of a specific map, I'm sure that the character could possibly be less overpowered for the competitors here in a ten foot by ten foot dome where flying is not an option, and the character is less likely to be able to prepare the death ball and other abilities, but that isn't a very likely scenario. In a tournament especially every character should be roughly balanced no matter what arena comes up, which is why its quite common to randomize the arena from a big compendium of arenas, as the judge you shouldn't really have to be placing environmental advantages in just to offset one characters powers. That suggests the issue is with the character.

At least, that's my opinion.


I will consider it tomorrow. As stated earlier, I am going out tonight and will not be able to address these matters before then.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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I think LeeRoy's analysis of the powers is pretty much what I would have said, including the issue of language that isn't properly explained and countless unavoidable powers. (I feel bad for anyone that isn't wearing as much shit as Jok, who also luckily as Ramor has a natural above human resistance to frost, which is not a common trait at this tier by any means.)

Also, that only leaves Vordak me and Tuuj by my reckoning, so there's a pretty decent chance this is just going to go to the finals after this is concluded, I only hope the situation is more balanced to give Vordak a chance.

Anyway, putting this on hiatus until tomorrow.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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I think LeeRoy's analysis of the powers is pretty much what I would have said, including the issue of language that isn't properly explained and countless unavoidable powers. (I feel bad for anyone that isn't wearing as much shit as Jok, who also luckily as Ramor has a natural above human resistance to frost, which is not a common trait at this tier by any means.)

Also, that only leaves Vordak me and Tuuj by my reckoning, so there's a pretty decent chance this is just going to go to the finals after this is concluded, I only hope the situation is more balanced to give Vordak a chance.

Anyway, putting this on hiatus until tomorrow.


If possible it may be easier to do an IRC chat or something rather than posting back and forth. We can consider that tomorrow.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
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This is very delayed from when I intended to get this up, but I’ve had a busy week with some stuff at work (we have someone quitting) along with the fact with some of the recent ongoings I haven’t had a lot of positive energy directed towards the tournament.

that's a reason I don't rate most naruto characters, or bleach ones, as proper arena fighters. They are categorically designed to be stronger, especially when used in roleplays where there is little moderation.
Rilla

That isn’t true. In fact, many elements and items of your characters may not be acceptable on a number of well-run of those types of threads (Kusanagi, for example). Generalizations should be avoided.

---

I think most of this would be been better approached if people had asked me how I was going to enforce X ability in Y manner (or even not in a specific manner at all) rather than how it was handled.

--

As for the matters of powers, as stated previously when I reviewed the character, any wide range AoE would be enforced as having minimal damage. This will continued to be enforced as such. There is no death ball (unless you get directly hit by it and even then it could be debatable) or death waves.

Any continually maintained ability takes energy over time. The shield (and any other ability) fall under that category. It cannot be maintained forever.

There is no instant freezing, instant death, etc. The character is designed as a character to wear someone down with very limited or specific condition focused damage. You can resist the damage, even if the language doesn’t state so – that is how it will be enforced. Just like while it does not explicitly state you can resist the effects of the abilities of some of the other caster character.

I’ll go over any specific ability on how I’ll enforce if there are specific questions on them.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Kusanagi wasn't designed for them, nor was translated over to be used in any of those. In almost all cases, I create new characters for each RP I'm in.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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What's the word on the tournament, ladies and gents?

Cancelled, paused?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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Same question here. Altered seems to be back after having his internet fail, so i'm hoping for a post from him, but the Melon Vs Tuuj and Leeroy Vs Thar fights seem to have come to a screeching halt.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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The whole thing seems to have. I might just call the tournament, and turn the fights into normal ranked bouts.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
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The whole thing seems to have. I might just call the tournament, and turn the fights into normal ranked bouts.


Yeah, just call it, it's going to start eating into the next tourny at this rate.
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