[OOC] Melonhead vs. DjAtomika NoW Rnd 1

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

Some pistols can also use larger calibers. So not much difference except accuracy at long distance and rate of fire.

@GreivousKhan

They can use larger calibres, but as far as I'm aware their stopping power is usually lower than a rifle regardless. But ultimately it's the rate of fire which takes it, you can have six bullets in a person before they fire one pistol round, and they probably don't have a weapon that will keep firing as they hold down the trigger, so even that has to be factored in.

Then again everyone is superhuman so who the fuck knows.

[GreivousKhan]

Unless they use a machine pistol. :P

I feel like a smith & wesson revolver could take an arm off though.

[MelonHead]

Unless they use a machine pistol. :P

@GreivousKhan

Indeed, though not many people take machine pistols into battle, which I find a grievous oversight. Dual wield those bitches with your superhumanly accurate speedster and no one can stop you.

[GreivousKhan]

I'm rather shocked there are not more, or at least one, damn gun kata character. Miss opportunity people.

[MelonHead]

There are a few, I don't think anyone really appreciates just -how- useful that fictional martial art style would be in Arena though, as it works off predicting common attack patterns you can pretty much dodge any attack that isn't unique or original and call it Gun-Kata.

[Skallagrim]

Well after I post my firearms tutorial we may see an uptick in firearms in the arena.

[GreivousKhan]

There are a few, I don't think anyone really appreciates just -how- useful that fictional martial art style would be in Arena though, as it works off predicting common attack patterns you can pretty much dodge any attack that isn't unique or original and call it Gun-Kata.

@MelonHead

The only one I remember ever seeing was made by bushidoxisamu2. Haven't seen any since. Though I don't regularly seek out peoples character threads to check.

[MelonHead]

Honestly I'd rather see less firearms of modern day capacity and higher in the Arena, because they don't translate well to duels, save for perhaps a sniper duel, which would be incredibly cool but poorly done by anyone except real enthusiasts who know the strategy behind that sort of thing.

I also worry it impedes your ability to RP with an opponent.

[Skallagrim]

Well everyone has an opinion. If guns are here and you can only refuse to fight someone using them, at least people should have an idea how to use them realistically in the arena.

[GreivousKhan]

Honestly I'd rather see less firearms of modern day capacity and higher in the Arena, because they don't translate well to duels, save for perhaps a sniper duel, which would be incredibly cool but poorly done by anyone except real enthusiasts who know the strategy behind that sort of thing.

I also worry it impedes your ability to RP with an opponent.

@MelonHead

Pretty much my thoughts. Though surprising to hear from you seeing as a good deal of your characters use a firearm of some kind. Last tournament looked like you had a rifle. :p

I almost made a sniper character who had a dog companion but opted not to, it just wouldn't work on any compelling level against the vast majority of PC characters. I never much liked the invention of guns period anyway, but if people want to use them in the Arena their free too.

It's one of those things I might like to see in a match, but would never want to do myself.

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

Pretty much my thoughts. Though surprising to hear from you seeing as a good deal of your characters use a firearm of some kind. Last tournament looked like you had a rifle. :p

I almost made a sniper character who had a dog companion but opted not to, it just wouldn't work on any compelling level against the vast majority of characters.

@GreivousKhan

Jok was sort of a character I made because I didn't think the tournament was balanced properly, very few of my other characters have modern day equivalent weapons. Though he was always going to be more about explosive traps anyway, I was planning to just scale what weapons I brought into a fight by the killing potential of my opponent, which is why I dropped the SMG for the finals, if they ever happen.

I also agree with you, I think there's something very melancholic about the invention of guns, in the instance that first musket ball fired by some irate peasant hit a charging knight across the field and pierced his armour, dropping him instantly, I think something amazing was lost to history forever. Almost like the forces of fair-play which had always to some extent existed had just been ruined, guns aren't fair.

It's especially noticeable in Japanese history and the fall of the Samurai in the Tokugawa period.

[Skallagrim]

Fairplay? In combat there is no fairplay. I have never once during any of my training thought anything other than end the threat and move on to the next.

[MelonHead]

Then again, maybe I'm just overly attached to old fashion notions of honour and duelling, where people were matched by skill of arms rather than how well they could fire a gun. Oh well, probably the by-product of an interest in historical warfare.

[Skallagrim]

Honor and dueling are different than warfighting. One has nothing to do with the other.

[MelonHead]

Honor and dueling are different than warfighting. One has nothing to do with the other.

@Skallagrim

But you could certainly argue that Arena, as in the definition of the word and ultimately the goal of creating narrative through combat, is definitely more geared towards duelling, particularly on fair grounds. You might not see it that way, but I don't want Arena to just become a combat simulator. I prefer a healthy middle ground, which I think exists between real-life duelling and theatrical RP.

Also historically speaking you're wrong, Honor in regards to the Code of Chivalry, Bushido, those concepts did exist even in times of war, even with their lives on the line some people still upheld their honor rather than discarding it in order to simply 'win' the combat.

[GreivousKhan]

<Snipped quote by GreivousKhan>

Jok was sort of a character I made because I didn't think the tournament was balanced properly, very few of my other characters have modern day equivalent weapons. Though he was always going to be more about explosive traps anyway, I was planning to just scale what weapons I brought into a fight by the killing potential of my opponent, which is why I dropped the SMG for the finals, if they ever happen.

I also agree with you, I think there's something very melancholic about the invention of guns, in the instance that first musket ball fired by some irate peasant hit a charging knight across the field and pierced his armour, dropping him instantly, I think something amazing was lost to history forever. Almost like the forces of fair-play which had always to some extent existed had just been ruined, guns aren't fair.

It's especially noticeable in Japanese history and the fall of the Samurai in the Tokugawa period.

@MelonHead

Exactly my thoughts.

I have a friend who agrees on the topic and we talk extensively on the subject. Warfare has always been bloody and unforgiving, sure, of course no one will deny that. But there is something very scary about how much guns take away the humanity of your target. Half the time you probably wont see their face, making it easier to think of them merely as a threat or the 'enemy' you need to dispatch. Makes it too easy to take human life.

Its interesting that the age of chivalry died around the time gunpowder use became prevalent. Routes are a thing the past too. No invention has really brought the blood-lust out in mankind in the same way. Sure we have nukes now, but the probability of anyone (sane) using them is pretty low (according to the experts anyway).

[Skallagrim]

Yes all those codes existed and only applied in certain situations. You are a romantic Melon. Warfare is brutal and deadly, those codes would be hardpressed to follow in a melee.

[GreivousKhan]

Yes all those codes existed and only applied in certain situations. You are a romantic Melon. Warfare is brutal and deadly, those codes would be hardpressed to follow in a melee.

@Skallagrim

Melees were pretty rare in pitched battles. They did descend into total bloodshed of both sides resulting in no real winner. Hence why they were avoided.

I think the real point is that guns are very good at killing people. Which I believe results in allot more deaths compared to battles of the past. I mean, you have a hard time having 'friendly fire' when your only weapon is a long pointy object.

[MelonHead]

Yes all those codes existed and only applied in certain situations. You are a romantic Melon. Warfare is brutal and deadly, those codes would be hardpressed to follow in a melee.

@Skallagrim

No doubt, I'm also a realist in that I know I wouldn't let something like honour stop me from killing an opponent in a life or death situation, but Arena isn't about you or me, it's about combats that are supposed to mean something, and I think a duel better represents that. If one person draws a gun, fires, and kills his opponent, that fight hasn't meant a damn. I doubt the person who shot the guy would even give a shit, considering how easy his victory was won. Now, if there was a huge build up to that one shot (like most Westerns) it might mean something, but we don't really have time to do that in Arena, as the RP element has to come through predominantly in the combat itself, a gunfight (I believe) doesn't effectively create that narrative. That's the main issue with guns, for me.

[GreivousKhan]

<Snipped quote by Skallagrim>

No doubt, I'm also a realist in that I know I wouldn't let something like honour stop me from killing an opponent in a life or death situation, but Arena isn't about you or me, it's about combats that are supposed to mean something, and I think a duel better represents that. If one person draws a gun, fires, and kills his opponent, that fight hasn't meant a damn. I doubt the person who shot the guy would even give a shit, considering how easy his victory was won. Now, if there was a huge build up to that one shot (like most Westerns) it might mean something, but we don't really have time to do that in Arena, as the RP element has to come through predominantly in the combat itself, a gunfight (I believe) doesn't effectively create that narrative. That's the main issue with guns, for me.

@MelonHead

^