Just Werewolves...?

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

This pertains mostly to the Guild and I am fairly certain this might come across as a strange topic - because it is - but is it so unusual to notice that among every single supernatural, paranormal or fantasy based roleplay topic or Interest Check I have browsed through that lists werewolves as character options do not even mention the other zoanthropic strains in fiction? I admit the lycanthrope is entirely the most well known - particularly to American and European audiences - that is not even meriting question, but are the others really quite so obscure? Or is it they are just not popular enough? To transition slightly, I can understand vampires being a staple of the genre, especially in our modern era given a multitude of popular media involving them, but now that it comes to mind, why are other werebeasts terribly underwhelming in terms of presence?

For reference I am, by and far, a roleplayer who caters to the feline side of things - ailuranthropes, in this particular case. Not that I hate werewolves, just that I have no real affinity for the canine nature whereas with the feline sort I do; having played weretigers previously out of that quality. The whole situation seems bizarre to me, especially given how subtly popular animals are in media and the human mind abroad, let alone paranormal fiction now where the "anything goes" mentality is pretty accepted in the face of any established lore. If anything a roleplay seems like ideal ground for this sort of thing.

Again, a highly unusual question, but is the world of paranormal fiction here just werewolves...?

What is your experience with zoanthropes of any sort in roleplays; good, bad, irrelevant? Have you even encountered any or have you ever permitted them into your story? Additionally, what is your opinion on the idea as a whole on the concept of the "many strains of zoanthropy"?

[Jig]

I think werewolves have kind of earned their place in mythology not to seem intrinsically naff. Any other x-thropes haven't quite got that historical weight behind them, and seem naff as a result, particularly given the internet's attitude toward furries. Everybody knows a werewolf, but a 'novel' concept involving another animal will be approached as something new, and through that rough spectrum of 'How much is this furry?'.

Pretty much every defined 'supernatural/horror race' is intrinsically naff in its purest forms, but werewolves have a long-established lore to draw on. Part of the charm, for me, at least, of watching supernatural/horror-race-themed media is to see how they will interpret the lore and what new spin you'll give on it. If it's not an established 'thing', though, there's no room for any of that comparison, which makes the new thing seem more alien and less approachable. The audience doesn't buy into it; it's considered naff.

Werewolves, incidentally, have a long history in Western cultural awareness, from being the antagonist in Biblical parables, fairy tales and even aphorisms, which lends them to the villainous, or, at least, dangerous role in a given story. I'm not sure big cats have that lingering cultural or folkloric heritage.

[Vilageidiotx]

A lot of that just comes down to the literary background of a lot of people who do internet RP's, doesn't it? I know if my lifetime there has been quite a bit of interest in supernatural tropes in teen fiction. For some people, i'm sure they are mostly just RPing what they already like.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

I think werewolves have kind of earned their place in mythology not to seem intrinsically naff. Any other x-thropes haven't quite got that historical weight behind them, and seem naff as a result, particularly given the internet's attitude toward furries. Everybody knows a werewolf, but a 'novel' concept involving another animal will be approached as something new, and through that rough spectrum of 'How much is this furry?'.

@Jig

I wouldn't quite say the other zoanthropes lack a historical weight; most every culture seems to include them, but certainly not in the same way or for the same reasons. I believe it is more along the lines of werewolves just being so established in European culture - and more so in modern times with the West as a whole.

I admit you are likely entirely correct on the "How much of this is 'furry'?" spectrum, in that that entire genre of anthropomorphism versus furry is a very ill defined battlefield. Admittedly I have been called a "furry" (with the negative connotation intended) for playing shapeshifters, zoanthropes, or using other elements of anthropomorphism.

Pretty much every defined 'supernatural/horror race' is intrinsically naff in its purest forms, but werewolves have a long-established lore to draw on. Part of the charm, for me, at least, of watching supernatural/horror-race-themed media is to see how they will interpret the lore and what new spin you'll give on it. If it's not an established 'thing', though, there's no room for any of that comparison, which makes the new thing seem more alien and less approachable. The audience doesn't buy into it; it's considered naff.

The werewolf is indeed well defined and established, but I think there must be something more to it, as with the vampire. After all, European folklore even includes werecats - both of the more "mundane" sort and the "panther" sort. Either way, I would be shocked to learn the idea of "There are werebeasts other than werewolves." is a shocking notion that people consider cliche. It strikes me as just a natural and reasonable extension of the concept.

Werewolves, incidentally, have a long history in Western cultural awareness, from being the antagonist in Biblical parables, fairy tales and even aphorisms, which lends them to the villainous, or, at least, dangerous role in a given story. I'm not sure big cats have that lingering cultural or folkloric heritage.

While not explicitly regarding felines, the whole issue eludes me in concept - big cats being the most confusing, in that they're well established in the human psyche and one of the more "common" zoanthropic strains. While wolves are well accounted for in European and Western myth, the cat isn't terribly disregarded either. I could understand the more exotic and bizarre renditions which only distantly relate to what we call a zoanthrope being unheard of, but those familiar? To the point that werewolves are the only real presence?

It all just seems strange... on the Internet of all places where information, stories, characters and concepts are freely floating about. Or the fact that the World of Darkness or other roleplaying game material, to include Dungeons and Dragons, includes them as well.

A lot of that just comes down to the literary background of a lot of people who do internet RP's, doesn't it? I know if my lifetime there has been quite a bit of interest in supernatural tropes in teen fiction. For some people, i'm sure they are mostly just RPing what they already like.

@Vilageidiotx

I suppose - it goes back to the saturation of modern media with the entire "werewolf versus vampire" trope that's become a now reinforced staple. Not to say werewolves and vampires shouldn't get the attention in supernatural fiction, but its grossly overpopulated and overpowered.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Wolves are generally accepted as an apex or top-tier predator across cultures and societies. From America to Europe and on into Asia. The genus the wolf belongs to - canis - is also similarly wide-spread with a foothold on pretty much every continent save Antarctica. The genus canis also involves the species of wolves we've come to know as dogs and there is through them a deep and commonly shared heritage of man to animal in human society through a pet-bond, and in many cases the dog is indeed man's best non-human friend.

Now having established that it's then noteworthy that the dog - and by extension the wolf - is notable to across continents and countries of exhibiting a great deal of sociability and almost human traits in the social makeup of groups like wolf packs. It's almost as if the wolf can structure itself as human. It's like the wolf is a human on four legs. They're social, they're intelligent, and they've been a constant antagonist against man among the cultures that matter to the point they're terrifying.

At the final conclusion the Werewolf is the inevitable conclusion of generations of human cohabitation and competition. The wolf isn't just a dumb-ass animal that maybe harasses the sheep at night. It's got enough creative thought in it to make things more difficult. And it can kill, and could kill a man. And if predatory fear of the untamed wolf were to enter the body of the supposedly superior man, then a perfect killing machine is made that can transcend many borders in part because the wolf is so common across many - or all - continents.

Although the werewolf as we know it is descended of the werewolf of pre-Christian Germanic folklore (suggesting in part the infalliable strength and ability of the Germans to fucking drive a hook into everything so it may be carried off by Anglo-Saxon boats into the way-beyond) as a mark of the old-warrior class, there are similar underlying wolf-man mythos abroad which make them more relatable to more people than Asia (which is the only place I know of where the werecat is a thing). Among the Turks and per Tengri beliefs the Turks believed that pre-Muslim shamans would assume the form of a wolf after rituals. Native Americans have their own werewolves, with the Naskapis beleiving the Caribou afterlife is guarded by wolfman spirits who kill way-ward hunters and the Navajo myths of the Skinwalkers puts the demonic shape-shifters into a wolf-form.

Similarly there's folktales in Northern Africa from Ethiopia to the Berbers of Morocco of a class of people possessing the ability to change into a hyena - a relative of the wolf - at will. This being called the Buda.
_____________

Lions, tigers, and other big-cats aren't nearly as wide-spread as the wolf or often as close to humanity as the wolf. Likewise as said before, big-cats are considered the realm of the modern furry. The canine is more the realm of classical anthropomorphic ghost stories.

[Ellri]

We think a lot of the blame lies in the field of the historical role of "farmer". In western culture, the wolf has traditionally been vilified by the people. And if the regular wolf is evil, imagine then how much more evil the human that turns into a big and nasty wolf would be. Big cats just never were common in the traditional western culture, thus they did not develop the same fear.

Today of course, big cats are visibly much more dangerous than wolves ever were. But that doesn't truly sink in for most.

The werewolf/vampire conflict is also a reason. the other weres haven't had a traditional enemy.

With less writing covering them, the other weres require more thought and study to use, as there isn't a flood of available sources for how they work and what traits they exemplify. A werewolf can both be a lone wolf and a pack animal, which gives an author/artist more options when choosing the variety to use. A werebear, for example, doesn't have a natural pack mentality.

We think all sorts of weres can be good if done right. Yes, even a were-muskrat.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

<Snipped quite by Dinh AaronMk>

Lions, tigers, and other big-cats aren't nearly as wide-spread as the wolf or often as close to humanity as the wolf. Likewise as said before, big-cats are considered the realm of the modern furry. The canine is more the realm of classical anthropomorphic ghost stories.

@Dinh AaronMk

Actually a very enlightening read on the grounds of some historical elements I was not terribly familiar with and how it ties into now; thank you for the contribution. I admit that it seems more and more inherently grounded and less evolving than I imagined. Not to say that werewolves and zoanthropes as a whole are "behind", but again it just strikes me as strange that a roleplaying community with all its glorious strangeness and cross-overs or mixed material and ideas still hasn't hit this note much, if at all to my awareness.

As for the last portion, I've never heard of big cats being the "realm of the modern furry", my impression of that genre has been that it was really "anything and everything anthropomorphic animal" was fair game as content. I am uneducated enough on the sort to know if that's true or not.

More than anything I assumed it was because of geographical separation and early history, which seems to be more and more the root cause.

We think a lot of the blame lies in the field of the historical role of "farmer". In western culture, the wolf has traditionally been vilified by the people. And if the regular wolf is evil, imagine then how much more evil the human that turns into a big and nasty wolf would be. Big cats just never were common in the traditional western culture, thus they did not develop the same fear.

Today of course, big cats are visibly much more dangerous than wolves ever were. But that doesn't truly sink in for most.

@Ellri

As said before, culture and location seem to be the two driving forces of this. Zoanthropes of any color are terrifying monsters, in particular against a mundane human being; human and feline contact being "rarer" seems to fit in with this regardless.

The werewolf/vampire conflict is also a reason. the other weres haven't had a traditional enemy.

With less writing covering them, the other weres require more thought and study to use, as there isn't a flood of available sources for how they work and what traits they exemplify. A werewolf can both be a lone wolf and a pack animal, which gives an author/artist more options when choosing the variety to use. A werebear, for example, doesn't have a natural pack mentality.

We think all sorts of weres can be good if done right. Yes, even a were-muskrat.

I find it interesting that there needs to be a conflict among werewolves and vampires to make them "interesting" in a way. The concept alone has a lot to work off of and its own incredible implications among fantasy, which have been explored quite a bit. Did that burn out somehow to the point where we need "Team X or Team Y?" - not to abuse a well loathed example, but it isn't the only one. That's another discussion altogether I suppose, but you are right... other zoanthropes have no real "enemy" or "struggle" outside of those already sort of expressed. Not to say they lack unique ones, but the werewolf and vampire competition is a major element of its modern draw.

I admit though that the one thing I would disagree with in terms of dynamics is that werewolves somehow give more options. If anything the other strains are options in and among themselves, just not well represented.

As a side note, I've not seen a weremuskrat character, but I would be legitimately curious.

[Ellri]

It doesn't "need" a conflict like vampire/werewolf to work out, after all, you see movies with just one of the two succeed plenty of times, but mixing them together makes for an easy story setup. Throw humans into the middle, and you've got a triple conflict.

non-wolf weres would probably benefit if they got stories of their own without werewolves

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

It doesn't "need" a conflict like vampire/werewolf to work out, after all, you see movies with just one of the two succeed plenty of times, but mixing them together makes for an easy story setup. Throw humans into the middle, and you've got a triple conflict.

non-wolf weres would probably benefit if they got stories of their own without werewolves

@Ellri

That's more the point I mean in that scenario. In a way it has become a staple of the genre, just as zombies have, but they're usually self contained to the three aspects all at conflict for one reason or another. Some series involve more, but not by much, others stick to one archetype. Most just seem to focus on that conflict rather than anything or everything else.

As for the other zoanthropes, getting traction by themselves, I would be curious to see if people would bite or if the interaction between this specific strain and the lycanthropic one would be a better idea; sort of building on the conflict found in the werewolf versus vampire archetype. Albeit it would be much harder to divide the two, let alone involve them well enough. Of course one can invent conflict, but I suppose it wouldn't feel "as natural" whereas it is with werewolves and vampires.

[ArcaneUnit]

WereCats + Werebears

I prefer to see werewolves in stories, unless you are in a Scandinavian region (werebears) or an African/indian region (werecats). I think it is simply CULTURALLY pleasing. It doesn't appear {what I consider} stupid in the mind's eye. Werewolves are European, like tigers are east-asian.

varying regions of china, india, Africa, Russia [Russia also have werebears] potentially and likely have different werecats.

Thinking of a predominant werecat population in Europe or America makes you think of ... a homosexual world.

[Vilageidiotx]

Thinking of a predominant werecat population in Europe or America makes you think of ... a homosexual world.

@ArcaneUnit

This is possibly the greatest thing that has ever been written in the RPG.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

WereCats + Werebears

I prefer to see werewolves in stories, unless you are in a Scandinavian region (werebears) or an African/indian region (werecats). I think it is simply CULTURALLY pleasing. It doesn't appear {what I consider} stupid in the mind's eye. Werewolves are European, like tigers are east-asian.

varying regions of china, india, Africa, Russia [Russia also have werebears] potentially and likely have different werecats.

Thinking of a predominant werecat population in Europe or America makes you think of ... a homosexual world.

@ArcaneUnit

That is under the assumption there would not be any movement of the strains across the globe. Concentration of individuals yes, one could rationalize you are significantly more likely to find werewolves in Europe or North America, but to discount the others altogether on region - at least in a modern setting - is another, stranger approach altogether. It isn't that there is lack of precedence either, as there is some minor precedence for these other non-lycanthropes in these regions' mythology.

The last portion of your statement I do not understand in the slightest as to what you're attempting to convey.

[ArcaneUnit]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Ahhh, but I used Predominant to explain my opinion. werewolves would hunt down and Kill the others ~
@ Instinct. And werewolves unliek Werebears and Cats hunt in Packs. Their territory is reserved and well protected; Including America.

those predominate werecat communities can eat feces if they want to live in my turf.(euro-america)
I'm Hybrid, rare and privileged. I don't side with cats over dogs. (granted dog-strain first... might have made a difference)

The WereBear:
A Werebear walked into Romania. and he thought nothing of it. Within nights, every werewolf from a 10 mile radius had gathered a pack of the neighbouring communities and hounded him down.
" I OWN THIS HOUSE!" said the werebear.
" Yeah! Yeah You DO!" said the wolves, circling his house.
" STEP OUt OF THaT HOUssssee" they jeered.

*How the werebear staked his claim.
{ we're not gonna fight you, - cause: ...*** , but we're not gonan let you live, cause: "ditto" *** }

To: you werecats, GO EAT WOODEN BULLETS

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

I am going to proceed under the perception you are using some sort of lore format or universe of a particular sort, @ArcaneUnit.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Ahhh, but I used Predominant to explain my opinion. werewolves would hunt down and Kill the others ~
@ Instinct. And werewolves unliek Werebears and Cats hunt in Packs. Their territory is reserved and well protected; Including America.

Being unfamiliar with "Predominant", whatever that is short of the word itself, you are making strong assumptions in favor of one instead of catering to the qualities of the many. I would not willfully place my ante solely upon a pack of werewolves against another zoanthrope - of which would likely inherent the animal lineage's strengths as well. There is a reason animals of this scale tend to avoid one another in reality's nature - the potential for grievous, mortal injury. "Reserved" or "protected" territory means little to animals of different psyches; the usual avoidance comes from over competition, or risk of injury through engagement.

those predominate werecat communities can eat feces if they want to live in my turf.(euro-america)

Opinion, not so much "fact" in terms of fiction. Felines are unlikely to congregate for any reason normally as it stands; again, one can theorize a fantastic creature such as an ailuranthrope would hold these similar qualities. If so, one can also muse they too are an apex predator and not to be trifled with.

I'm Hybrid, rare and privileged. I don't side with cats over dogs. (granted dog-strain first... might have made a difference)

If you are speaking on the matter of wolfdogs, one should also keep in mind these hybrids tend to be unstable psychologically and have poor pack etiquette, as they're neither quite wolf or quite dog; their role in a pack is disorderly, more often than not. If we are speaking about a cynanthrope crossed with a lycanthrope, one might wonder if the result is the same.

The WereBear:
A Werebear walked into Romania. and he thought nothing of it. Within nights, every werewolf from a 10 mile radius had gathered a pack of the neighbouring communities and hounded him down.
" I OWN THIS HOUSE!" said the werebear.
" Yeah! Yeah You DO!" said the wolves, circling his house.
" STEP OUt OF THaT HOUssssee" they jeered.

*How the werebear staked his claim.
{ we're not gonna fight you, - cause: ...*** , but we're not gonan let you live, cause: "ditto" *** }

Ten miles is a small amount of area, even in every direction. That is perhaps at most a single pack, assuming they even happened to share territory, let alone would cooperate with one another. We're still assuming zoanthropes are rare for a reason - if not, the dynamic of their mythology is no longer "predictable" based on what we "know" in their lore.

Either way, I would not test the temper of a bear, be it a mythological one of both man and beast or one of nature.

To: you werecats, GO EAT WOODEN BULLETS

Wood not only makes for a very poor firearm projectile, but I doubt the validity of shooting any zoanthrope with a wood bullet - should it even work.

[Strawberry425]

As for why werewolves dominate Western and European cultures. To me, I always though of it as being the human connection with dogs, which is by far, the strongest of all animal-people co-evolutionary relationships. We've shaped dogs so greatly that they can read our facial features, which is no small task for an animal whose face, anatomically, is quite different from ours. And here in America, this connection seems pretty emphasized. "Everyone" always wants a dog. The nuclear American family goal is to have a beautiful golden retriever. Wolves provide a familiar, but 'stronger' form of the dog, though I'd go out on a limb to say we've bred some pretty big livestock guardians that would give a wolf a run for its money. And more people tend to like dogs than cats (and that's probably a socially influenced thing). Since I have no preference for either, and view both as perfectly beautiful human companions and fluffy babies, I think its one of the dumbest showdowns humanity ever created. But, it does ring true that most people I've met-friend, stranger, acquaintance-have preferred, though not necessarily actually liked, dogs over cats.

Trust me when I say, plenty of people who love werewolves know very little werewolf lore beyond the full moon or the silver bullets. I actually include myself among these people, but my desire to roleplay animals (which has died down, admittedly due to the furry fandom; sorry to furries, but I'm not comfortable being associated with that group just from enjoyment of online roleplaying anthro animals) stemmed from a love of animal life and nature, as opposed to mythology or lore. I'm sure a lot of other people come from the same background as me, and just enjoy playing werewolves for that particular reason, especially since they tend to be less associated with furries, and more socially acceptable. I myself used to occasionally extend beyond werewolves, but today, since they're the most easily accepted, I tend to stick to werewolves (not that I don't like them do; I love 'em!). I have joined and read extremely wonderful multi-animal anthro rps before, but not since childhood. Either way, they do exist, but coming from the perspective I do, I think the werewolf's social acceptance also plays a role in its popularity.

[ArcaneUnit]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Ahh my friend.. Werecats don't have an itchy spot like we do; They're all pussies.
Also. 3 werewolves vs a werebear is a pretty even fight: 1 for 1.
Werecats do mingle; when they do the do - 1 female 1 dude; after a communal cock fight.
Cock fights are scary to interrupt, but sure fun to break up when it's all over.

But most importantly. I am well aware of the world history, and Why we are dominant where we are, and why we are not where we are not.

A Toast; To: the Front Line.
In each and every word of mouth we breath your cause.

edit*** 34 mins later **** - GGGGrrrrrrrr.... Now I'm mad! All I smell is SCAT

[Vilageidiotx]

Where are the Were-Marine life btw? I want to see a Werewhale.

[Dinh AaronMk]

Where are the Were-Marine life btw?

@Vilageidiotx

You don't want to see a Weremarine. I hear they're absolutely horrifying. They didn't earn the Devil Dog name for nothing.

[Vilageidiotx]

"When the moon is fulls, Jim sprouts tattoos and a buzzcut."

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

<Snipped quote by Strawberry425>

@Strawberry425

It is interesting that the topic of furries being a deterrent for the promotion of other zoanthropes whereas werewolves are generally accepted is a surprisingly fascinating development. I never associated furries with zoanthropes - I divided the categories mentally of "furry", "anthropomorphic" and "zoanthropic", but I could see how that genre could readily give the wrong impression based upon perceptions of that community and the fact that there is a sliding-scale of "furriness" of which is still hotly debated.

I agree that it is a culture matter that is strongly built into most European and American societies relating to the dog, and by greater extension, the wolf.

I appreciate your largely neutral and unique perspective, @Strawberry425 - thank you for offering it.

<Snipped quite by ArcaneUnit>

@ArcaneUnit

Given you have gone off into character and I now better understand what it is you are saying. Unfortunately, I am not exactly sure as to how it relates to the matter of almost every roleplay topic being strictly werewolves or the "classic" media accepted monsters, but I appreciate your confidence in it - even if I disagree on a few matters.

Where are the Were-Marine life btw? I want to see a Werewhale.

@Vilageidiotx

Admittedly I've not seen anything of establish zoanthropic strains of anything of the sort; the Dungeons and Dragons franchise is the extent of that, and they tend to invent their own lore or modify it for some things as it is. I am unsure as to Whitewolf's sources... perhaps they drew upon existing folklore; I am sure there are fera of Werewolf: The Apocalypse that would fit these.