B!tchfest: a healthy release for our non-roleplay annoyances.

[Volenvradica]

My friend would look so much better in his cosplay if he shaved more, used makeup, and wore slimmer outfits. But noooo, it's 2017 and he still can't face the fact that guys using makeup for cosplay is more common now, and that wearing size-fitting clothes, I dunno...MAKE YOU LOOK FUCKING THINNER? And this guy has the fucking nerve to say "Man, I wish I could look as good."

[Vilageidiotx]

@Vilageidiotx
I'm more bothered by how you have that one guy who basically appointed a cabinet designed to destroy state departments.

I mean Reagan still fascinates me with how much shit he got away with (at least Nixon eventually got caught) but I do wonder, when you say worse do you mean like presidents who had competence to carry out their agenda effectively?

@Arawak

Hoover is sometimes given partial blame for his idealogical reaction to the beginning of the Great Depression. That depends on whether you are in the modern-econ "Hoover didn't intervene" camp instead of the classic liberal "FDR intervened too much" camp though.

Otherwise the question gets vague, because what a President's agenda is isn't always the same thing as their platform. Harding, for instance, is infamous for how corrupt his administration was. But the thing about corruption is, you can argue his agenda was doing corrupt shit, since that was what he was doing. If Trump ends up just being corrupt, but he gets away with it, then who failed? Trump, or the voters?

For pure incompetence, you can go as low as Buchanan. And yes, Trump is going to have to try extra fucking hard to be worse than Buchanan. That's the beauty of that guy. If a President out-fucks-up Buchanan, we aren't even going to be talking about the matter or making these comparisons, because we'll have more important things on our plate, like fighting off irradiated raiders and shit like that.

Personally, I think Trump will end up being a right wing Jimmy Carter. You know, somebody who has an ideologue fan base, but by the general population is considered something of a goofy fuck-up. And I mean Prez Carter, not the post-Prez Carter, who might have enough miracles under his belt for sainthood by now.

But, you know, fuck it. Who knows. It's all just idle talk at this point, since he is only thirty days in. He could be the next Reagan for all I know. I kind of doubted considering how frazzled his ideological situation is, but weirder things have happened.

[Garattee]

I hate the fact that the alt right has no real definitions, its impossible to sum up what the actually believe which makes them impossible to criticize or defend.

[JDolan]

And why, @Garattee, would you want to defend racist, isolationist, neo-authoritarian, disciples of Sam Huntington and his Clash of Civilizations theory that want to completely unmake the post-Bretton Woods, post-UN Charter world order to fit their worldview via conspiracy-peddling? Now I'm not saying that Bretton Woods is perfect, but it is quite necessary in the modern globalized order which can't be retreated without total collapse of the worldwide economy, essentially.

[Garattee]

And why, @Garattee, would you want to defend racist, isolationist, neo-authoritarian, disciples of Sam Huntington and his Clash of Civilizations theory that want to completely unmake the post-Bretton Woods, post-UN Charter world order to fit their worldview via conspiracy-peddling? Now I'm not saying that Bretton Woods is perfect, but it is quite necessary in the modern globalized order which can't be retreated without total collapse of the worldwide economy, essentially.

@JDolan

I never said I want to defend them, I'm saying the vagueness of their description makes it very tough to discuss them in any clear way. Ive seen many descriptions of the alt right, some of which match you description, some which dont.

[Mistiel]

I hate the fact that the alt right has no real definitions, its impossible to sum up what the actually believe which makes them impossible to criticize or defend.

@Garattee

On the contrary, alt right people don't need a set definition for everything. They appeal to logic instead, and LOGIC and common sense dictate what they know to be true at any given time. When the facts change, so do their opinions that they formulated based on that information. Make sense?

Also, the "alt right" is just that: alternative conservatism. It just means they don't agree with EVERY facet of conservatism. They might have some liberal ideas. They might take a page out of the libertarian playbook (woot!). When a loose group of people is considered by society to be "alternative", it just means that they don't really fit the mold for any other group. There are alt liberals, alt libertarians, alt Greens, et cetera.

[Garattee]

<Snipped quote by Garattee>

On the contrary, alt right people don't need a set definition for everything. They appeal to logic instead, and LOGIC and common sense dictate what they know to be true at any given time. When the facts change, so do their opinions that they formulated based on that information. Make sense?

Also, the "alt right" is just that: alternative conservatism. It just means they don't agree with EVERY facet of conservatism. They might have some liberal ideas. They might take a page out of the libertarian playbook (woot!). When a loose group of people is considered by society to be "alternative", it just means that they don't really fit the mold for any other group. There are alt liberals, alt libertarians, alt Greens, et cetera.

@Mistiel

And why, @Garattee, would you want to defend racist, isolationist, neo-authoritarian, disciples of Sam Huntington and his Clash of Civilizations theory that want to completely unmake the post-Bretton Woods, post-UN Charter world order to fit their worldview via conspiracy-peddling? Now I'm not saying that Bretton Woods is perfect, but it is quite necessary in the modern globalized order which can't be retreated without total collapse of the worldwide economy, essentially.

@JDolan

See what I mean? not even 12 hours and already two very different definitions, how can this position be defended or criticized?

[Dion]

I hate the fact that the alt right has no real definitions, its impossible to sum up what the actually believe which makes them impossible to criticize or defend.

@Garattee

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the alt right. They're not an organized group. There is no leadership called 'the alt right' and there is no 'alt right political party' or political leaders that associate with the alt right (and those that do, are most likely pandering, because if you call yourself an alt right person you're immediately out with 3 strikes.) There is no organized set of believes and rules for what they should believe in, contrary to say, feminism or libertarianism, who do have more clearly definable traits and beliefs.

They don't have a mold, so to speak. So yes what you are saying is absolutely right. It's not really a criticism though. All we can really say is that the alt right is, perhaps, anti-established order. But that might change.

And if you look at the 'real' alt right (i.e. the people in the background/the founders) then they're more often than not not even politically motivated. They just want some kek's.

I mean, really, you're talking about the same people that made the world believe that 'trash dove' was a sign of white supremacy and who managed to make Pepe frog a recognized hate symbol. They're professional shitposters. The fact that you're trying to take them seriously is already strange to me.

Now...

#freeKekistan

[Mistiel]

<Snipped quote by Garattee>

I mean, really, you're talking about the same people that made the world believe that 'trash dove' was a sign of white supremacy and who managed to make Pepe frog a recognized hate symbol. They're professional shitposters. The fact that you're trying to take them seriously is already strange to me.

@Buddha

You say they're unorganized, and then you accuse them all of being !@#!posters. The Youtube content creator Rags is basically an alt-right kind of guy and you don't see him calling random symbols racist. He has his hot button issues and he defends them with basic logic and research of accurate statistics. Please don't try to stuff all alt-right people in one box. "Alt-right" viewpoints, as we both agree, can vary greatly (even on just one issue).

[Dion]

@Mistiel and like I was saying, the people that are at the forefront of the alt right (i.e. Sargon of Akkad, and supposedly Rags? Never heard of him but he's probably ok) are not really the ones that should be claiming they stand for the alt right, considering that the alt right began as a memey practical joke. Sure, their views may align with the alt right, but that doesn't mean that the alt right didn't start and, still is in the majority, just a bunch of shitposters. Having a bunch of intelligent people in there doesn't negate the fact that the alt right is more or less a practical joke. And if you're not in on the joke, then congratulations, you're a peon.

Now let's enjoy some Shadilay.

[Vilageidiotx]

Also, the "alt right" is just that: alternative conservatism. It just means they don't agree with EVERY facet of conservatism. They might have some liberal ideas. They might take a page out of the libertarian playbook (woot!). When a loose group of people is considered by society to be "alternative", it just means that they don't really fit the mold for any other group. There are alt liberals, alt libertarians, alt Greens, et cetera.

@Mistiel

You are just describing a conservative, straight up. It's not like people who identify with this political movement or that political movement have to identify with the whole thing. You can be a conservative who is okay with gay marriage, or a conservative who believes in global warming. In those cases you are still a conservative, if most of what you believe is essentially conservative.

For instance, I'm pretty solidly left wing. But I agree with the Republican stance on guns. That doesn't make me "Alt-Left". If that's the way it worked, everyone would be alt-X, because only tools agree completely with one side of the political line.

In this case you are being exactly like those people who claim they have discovered a new gender, because they are attracted to different things about the opposite sex, or they don't like watching one particular type of tv show associated with gender stereotypes, or whatever. Because they don't fit all of one particular stereotype, they think they are something new, when in reality they are just one specimen of the old thing.

The only people I've seen turn the alt-right into an workable term for their movement, rather than just something for them to masturbate to how different and special they are compared to their grandparent's conservatism, is the Richard Spencer types. Soft-Nazi's and shit. The people trying to reclaim Neo-Nazism from prison gangs and conspiracy-addled mountain compounds, and introduce it into respectable society. Because in their case, they can legitimately claim to be part of something "alternative" to the traditional political movements. At least in the United States.

So at this moment, I suppose that's my personal working definition for the term. Alt Right means either a young conservative trying to announce a sort of special snowflake status because they listen to, like, Sargon of Akkad instead of Rush Limbaugh, or they are cleaned up neo-nazis caught up in the entire death of white culture meme.

[Dinh AaronMk]

<Snipped quote by Mistiel>

For instance, I'm pretty solidly left wing. But I agree with the Republican stance on guns. That doesn't make me "Alt-Left". If that's the way it worked, everyone would be alt-X, because only tools agree completely with one side of the political line.

@Vilageidiotx

To comment on this bit here: this is what I tend to notice quiet a bit on the far-left side of things. Like the legit anarchists or even non-Tankie communists (or, to some-such effect, they may support the notion to but they never talk about it) believe people should be armed and guns are a good thing. Where the topic of no guns seems to stem from all the center-left types the far-left these days really, really loves to complain about.

To basically meme on the point/comparison, and illustrate the feud

[Mistiel]

@Vilageidiotx

You know, I really don't see many 'alt-right" sort of people DECLARING themselves as alt-right. It's been a label that the so-called "tools" from both (or just one) parties that don't particularly like them. I also don't truly understand why you brought up the creation of new political parties and why you'd equivocate that with the supposed creation of new genders. The resemblance in analogies is startling, yes, but it's quite off-topic.

<Snipped quote by Mistiel>

The only people I've seen turn the alt-right into an workable term for their movement, rather than just something for them to masturbate to how different and special they are compared to their grandparent's conservatism, is the Richard Spencer types. Soft-Nazi's and shit. The people trying to reclaim Neo-Nazism from prison gangs and conspiracy-addled mountain compounds, and introduce it into respectable society. Because in their case, they can legitimately claim to be part of something "alternative" to the traditional political movements. At least in the United States.

So at this moment, I suppose that's my personal working definition for the term. Alt Right means either a young conservative trying to announce a sort of special snowflake status because they listen to, like, Sargon of Akkad instead of Rush Limbaugh, or they are cleaned up neo-nazis caught up in the entire death of white culture meme.

@Vilageidiotx

Alt-right is not a dang movement! In the U.S.A, you either vote Republican or Democrat (or libertarian, etc. but the chances of MY preferred party ever winning a presidential election are unfortunately slim right now). Can we just agree that people who don't particularly ascribe to either of the parties in the U.S. two party system don't particularly care what percentages of each party they represent? Just let them do their own thing.

[Dion]

@Dinh AaronMk Gonna go ahead and bookmark that last one. If you have more of these, send them my way.

[Mistiel]

@Mistiel and like I was saying, the people that are at the forefront of the alt right (i.e. Sargon of Akkad, and supposedly Rags?

@Buddha

Rags doesn't specifically call himself alt-right. He just has one or two videos reacting to people who have CALLED him alt-right. By the way, though I've heard the name Sargon of Akkad, I've literally never cared to go check out his channel. I actually prefer watching Adam Conover and Rags because it's like watching two sides of a coin. They both make logical points (the former being more liberal and the latter being more conservative) about their respective subjects, and both usually entertain me.

__________________________________________

Sidenote: I'm a libertarian. I prefer to remain free to watch whoever I please without that labeling me. From a logical point-of-view, what I just said makes me a wishy-washy tool, but I don't care. Being a tool of a party that's not all that powerful makes me an underdog. Woof woof! :) (Sorry this second mini-paragraph was entirely off-topic, but this discussion has put me in a weird mood.)

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Dinh AaronMk Gonna go ahead and bookmark that last one. If you have more of these, send them my way.

@Buddha

Just more seizure of the memes of production

[Dinh AaronMk]

<Snipped quote by Buddha>

I'm a libertarian.

@Mistiel

[Dion]

@Mistiel Sargon has essentially been proclaimed the image of being red-pilled. Sadly, it's not a beautiful image, since he's about as bad as those he fights against. Arrogant, self-indulgent, very active in attacking others that disagree. Overall, he's an enjoyable watch if you enjoy memery. He's like that 'THEY'RE TURNING THE FROGS GAY!' guy but he portrays himself as more intelligent. He does a good job at it too. But overall, people that take him seriously just end up being obnoxious and wrong most of the time. Like I said - just like the people he wants to fight.

He's also a dirty fraud that frauded people using kickstarter. So, there's also that, but that's more of a personal reason to hate him.

As for your preferences politically, I'm not inclined to any side or whatever. We have a multiple party system where I live, so I vote for whoever I feel like matches my preferences the best. I think that's the best way to go about it. So, the party I vote for changes.

[Dinh AaronMk]

JAMES "Let the Fascists hit the floor" DORE

Uphold Anarcho-Doreism now.

[Vilageidiotx]

@Vilageidiotx

You know, I really don't see many 'alt-right" sort of people DECLARING themselves as alt-right. It's been a label that the so-called "tools" from both (or just one) parties that don't particularly like them. I also don't truly understand why you brought up the creation of new political parties and why you'd equivocate that with the supposed creation of new genders. The resemblance in analogies is startling, yes, but it's quite off-topic.

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

Alt-right is not a dang movement! In the U.S.A, you either vote Republican or Democrat (or libertarian, etc. but the chances of MY preferred party ever winning a presidential election are unfortunately slim right now). Can we just agree that people who don't particularly ascribe to either of the parties in the U.S. two party system don't particularly care what percentages of each party they represent? Just let them do their own thing.

@Mistiel

There are people who identify with the term. In the case of the soft-nazi types, there is a movement. Like, I get what @Buddha is saying about how a lot of the Alt-Right is just people who are just fucking with the media and the general population because those things are easy targets, or how (like I said before) a lot of conservatives are throwing it around to make them feel special but are really just run of the mill center-right. But there is that soft-nazi thing, way down there, taking the term seriously. Whether they are of any consequence is a whole other matter of course.

You aren't going to have a thing that big, even if it is a joke, without a few autists taking it super seriously.