[OOC] Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

[Scarifar]

Guys, slow down, jeez. I can barely keep up in my old age (read: laziness) these days.

[Antarctic Termite]

Speaking of laziness, while I'm still too lazy to finish proofreading the OP, here's that random map again. It looked pretty cool for a first roll (there's a vaguely triangle-shaped continent to the left, and circular mountains), so unless @Kho already has his precious heart set on a map or anyone else dislikes its geography, or wants to start with an all-land or an all-water map, we can probably stick with it.

This time it's in a higher resolution and Robinson Winkel Tripel Robinson projection, and I moved it so that the sides cut through the meridian with the most ocean. _{Which, coincidentally, left the prime meridian 365 pixels from left and was a move of exactly 420 pixels. Blaze it.}

There's a red dot on a nice little peninsula on the prime meridian that might be an origin point of some kind. No, it's not Jvan.

Hider

[Kho]

@Antarctic Termite Nop, I'm happy with that map xP

[Kho]

*Ant pokes its head out*

Guys. Guys.

*Other ants poke their heads out*

Wat? Wat?

Look...

*They all look*

HUH!! Is-

YES!

HE'S GONE! HE'S GONE! DJERRIK THE ANT-KILLER IS GONE!

VICTORY!

[BBeast]

I agree that our Galbar is lack-luster in geographical variation, and that a randomly generated map complete with oceans and continents looks much more interesting.

@Double Capybara The argument for starting at Level 3 is that Gods between Level 1 and 3 are actually equivalent to Demigods in power in Godspeed. Technically, Demigods can't create proper sentient life. So if they start at Level 3, then they can reach Level 4 by the end of the first Turn and then start exercising full power from there. Also, with your comparison to when Hain were made in Mk.2 on Turn 3, the first Turn in Mk.2 was spent inventing the universe so doesn't really count, so the hain were made on the second Turn on Galbar.

As for which section it should go in: I will reiterate that I don't know much about the dynamics of the Free section. But I will also repeat Kho's argument that we don't want Godspeed to take appreciable energy away from Divinus, for which it is important that it is kept light.

However, I probably won't join Godspeed either way, since I'm busy enough already. Have fun, though.

[WrongEndoftheRainbow]

Map so far

I didn't like how the map was so connected together, so I made this. Thoughts?

[Frettzo]

Map so far

I didn't like how the map was so connected together, so I made this. Thoughts?

@WrongEndoftheRainbow

I like it! Adding a bunch of small islands between the borthern and southern continents would add an interesting area for when warfare occurs.

[Double Capybara]

Map so far

I didn't like how the map was so connected together, so I made this. Thoughts?

@WrongEndoftheRainbow

It looks weird, too broken and like, 90% of the surface is water, Earth is like 70%.

Did you change from bitmaps to vectors for land and layers too? This is a huge issue with the current MK2 map.

[WrongEndoftheRainbow]

<Snipped quote by WrongEndoftheRainbow>

It looks weird, too broken and like, 90% of the surface is water, Earth is like 70%.

Did you change from bitmaps to vectors for land and layers too? This is a huge issue with the current MK2 map.

@Double Capybara

I currently do not have a vector program on my main computer.

EDIT: If you're worried about quality when zoomed in, the map is currently around 5000x6000, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Antarctic Termite]

ed: ninja'd

@WrongEndoftheRainbow How much do you enjoy naval empires?

Your map encourages island- or continent-grabbing, which isolates players until they develop sail and completely dispenses with the need for land travel once they do. Once you have the technology (and if you go the Polynesian route you will get it fast), oceans are a connecting factor, not a barrier. To some extent this is also a problem with my map, but maybe not quite so bad. There's a mix of land separating oceans and oceans separating land.

Also remember that not all overland trips are possible, never mind easy. Mountains, forests, deserts, ice fields and enemy territory are all obstacles that have to be mastered (and, in our case, can be manipulated!). You could try doing the same thing with water civs on an 80% water map, by some divine shenanigans, but it's much harder. Also, aquatic civs like mermaids will enjoy tactical supremacy.

People tend to play land civs, too (even when there's room for both), so land connections give us some lovely border disputes and cultural exchange. On a water map your borders are the beach and then how far you can get before you see how leaky your boat is. There should be island princedoms, obviously, but maybe not an entire planet of them (unless you guys want one!)

Some things to put to vote, though:

-Should continents be larger and rounder? This will encourage overland travel a la the Silk Road and Saharan trade networks

-Should some landmasses be inaccessible to one another without sea travel? This could let us have fun with old-world new-world dynamics with two or three continents taking completely different cultural paths (until sail). Enough land in between would do this too, though (Mediterranean vs. sub-Sahara, Japan vs. Britain, see large continents).

[Double Capybara]

<Snipped quote by Double Capybara>

I currently do not have a vector program on my main computer.

EDIT: If you're worried about quality when zoomed in, the map is currently around 5000x6000, so it shouldn't be a problem.

@WrongEndoftheRainbow

My worry is on the side of forests, land alterations and islands, we had an issue with these on MK2. At least layers are a must, or we will be facing a wall two weeks into the RP.

[BBeast]

@Double Capybara Unless he's changed editors, WrongEnd uses paint.net, which is a layered bitmap editor.

[BBeast]

@Antarctic Termite

-Should continents be larger and rounder? This will encourage overland travel a la the Silk Road and Saharan trade networks

That's a good idea. It's nice to have some deep inland areas. In your current map, there's a giant inland ocean which could be filled in to achieve that goal.

-Should some landmasses be inaccessible to one another without sea travel? This could let us have fun with old-world new-world dynamics with two or three continents taking completely different cultural paths (until sail). Enough land in between would do this too, though (Mediterranean vs. sub-Sahara, Japan vs. Britain, see large continents).

The current map already has separation into two continents, although the division is subtle: the only land connection between the east and west is over the north pole, which in most planets would be a frozen wasteland and thus a formidable barrier.

[Cyclone]

The problem with our current Divinus is that there's just so much vacant space.

I filled in a huge swathe by making the Sparking Sea, then the huge Firewind + Golden Barrens, and then this got expanded by the addition of the Great Steppe (you'd have to ask Kho what the difference between that steppe and the Golden Barrens would be) and the Venomweald. More recently there was also the canonization of that empty spot south of the Venomweald and east of the Firewind as being like the plains of North America and inhabited by a bunch of Hain tribes.

Even so, this whole "blessed land" as djinn/Zeph/Vetruvians refer to the area is still essentially an island. Due to the sheer distances involved and the fact that neither Vetros nor Rukbany do much on the seas, it's not meaningfully connected to Alefpria or Loralom or Mesathalassa.

This is the issue with having so much land available; it makes the map artificially huge and unless there is a concerted effort to concentrate a lot of civilizations in the same general area, you end up like in this RP where we're 20 pages in and there's still been very little meaningful contact between most of the big hubs of civilization.

Ironically it'd probably feel better if it was 80% ocean with two or three continents, so that each island could have a coherent theme and the nations on it could interact more with one another.

[Antarctic Termite]

That's a good idea. It's nice to have some deep inland areas. In your current map, there's a giant inland ocean which could be filled in to achieve that goal.

@BBeast

Time to get to work, then.

*Mater Lei walks past carrying a bucket and spade*

[Kho]

fug! it's a red-'ead!

This is the issue with having so much land available; it makes the map artificially huge and unless there is a concerted effort to concentrate a lot of civilizations in the same general area, you end up like in this RP where we're 20 pages in and there's still been very little meaningful contact between most of the big hubs of civilization.

@Cyclone

Lack of contact between major civilisations is meant to be a negative? Human civilisation was a good 4,500 years in (very arbitrary, we could pick a higher number, but as a minimum) before there was any meaningful contact between China and Europe, even between India and China - and they literally share a border (impassable mountain of course). So long as civilisations somewhat local to each other interact ICly, however briefly, it's fine. Most official contact at this point should involve conquest anyway.

EdIt: lack of contact has nothing to do with 'we're 30 pages in an no contact!' it's just a matter of most civilisations not being at a point in development where external civs don't interest them. Only the Mesathalassa civs have had meaningful interactions that don't involve just war. The rest (Alefpria, dwarves, Xerxes, reborn-mermaid-people-forgot-their-names) just haven't. In the case of Eskandars and Dawn's Arcon civ, there's been no interaction AT ALL. Other than being pelted with ants by Jvan.

[Kho]

I've recently discovered Glorantha, and the artwork is mindblowing.

A monument to the God in the Stone!!

_{this beautiful piece by the amazing Jan Pospisil. Check his art out!}

[Double Capybara]

Post

@Cyclone

Well, it's not exactly a nation RP even if a lot of time is spent on nation-building, furthermore, it takes place on a planet, which makes it not really artificially huge, just huge, it makes sense why something in a continent is not having action with another, the same way the Romans did not have a lot of action with the Chinese and Maya, and just a bit with the Ethiopians.

I won't lie I prefer this style to Mk1's style, as it gives a lot of breathing space, but I understand what your issue with it is. But I do not think its a land factor, but instead something with the way the game is played.

-Each player picks up a region and develops it, instead of doing multiple smaller world building projects in a variety of regions.

Its very understandable behavior really. But I feel like, say, Gerrik living in Eastern Mesathalassa, is an interesting experience.

-Players have regional storylines which are not good to interrupt.

For example, Vetros was stuck in one of these for a long time, making it hard for anyone to interact with it. Same is happening now with Western Mesathalassa, I made sure to leave huge chunks of time where much can happen, but the next a hundred years of the continent are set, and then I will be free to leave it be.

-Not many heroes and gods interact with other civilizations

Which seems to be again a result of the cordiality, it is a bit better than having a dragon god crashing in mid-plot, but it has its own issues. Collabs can fix that.

So, down to it, I see two issues:

Regions are more malleable than they look, a lot of people seem intimidated to act in regions where others are active, but the distance between say, the northmost to the southmost harbor kingdom is the same as Lisbon-Baghdad I think, so there is room for even someone outright deciding to build up a town in there. The big issue seems to be history wise, which can be quickly solved by asking the player who is working the region.

Collabs too, collabs are always good but there aren't many that don't involve a god, inviting players to interact with your region could work. It's an issue I have myself, even with BBeast having a character next door.

What I don't think will help is to make the world too small or giving everyone impossibly fast boats and horses. It makes sense that all the average MSTLS noble knows about Vetros are distant stories because that is a distant region.

[WrongEndoftheRainbow]

<Snipped quote by WrongEndoftheRainbow>

My worry is on the side of forests, land alterations and islands, we had an issue with these on MK2. At least layers are a must, or we will be facing a wall two weeks into the RP.

@Double Capybara

I keep my layers labeled and organized, so if it's needed, I can always drop a .psd or a .pdn (I have the capability of both) as well as the png version.

[Cyclone]

@Kho@Double Capybara

My point wasn't to complain per se about the lack of interaction, but rather to counteract what was brought up before: that having lots of little islands will lead to people grabbing them for themselves and remaining really isolated until the invention of (very) good sailing technology. Just having an all land planet ironically causes more isolation both in the early stages and in the later ones when there's sailing.

Then there was the lesser point that having an all-land planet results in huge swathes of empty space on the map.

We've tried it both ways now between this and Mk. 1, and I have to say that in this iteration starting with all dry land was probably a mistake. It needn't be a 100% oceanic planet like in Mk. 1, but just having mostly oceans would go a long ways towards making a more natural-looking map if nothing else.