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She squeals with delight, "How could I not!? We've all been waiting for it to happen. Harry wants a double date ASAP, bee tee dubs."


Seriously though, can we talk about the fact @Byrd Man had a character brag about buying the belt Robin Williams hanged himself with and no-one mentioned it in the OOC thread?

Y'all motherfuckers need Jesus.
@Master Bruce
@Morden Man

Remember when we thought no Discord was a good idea?


Nothing like wading through twenty-eight pages of GIFs to start the day.
Dread it.

Run from it.

A Fantastic Four post still arrives.

Triskelion, Washington D.C.

Raised voices rang through the corridors of the Triskelion. Its point of origin was deputy director Maria Hill’s corner office. Loitering outside were a handful of SHIELD administrative staff that were pretending to be working. Inside Guy Gardner was making his last stand. Hill had removed Gardner from command of the Pegasus the second it had touched down at the Triskelion – and Guy was determined to get it back. Even if it cost him his badge.

“My service record has been exemplary since that mess in Atlantis. Ask any of my cre-”

Hill shook her head with an exasperated sigh.

“You don’t have a crew, Guy, the Pegasus is Vostok’s command. You were put in charge on an interim basis while Valentina was on maternity leave because we thought maybe you’d learned your lesson. Clearly were wrong.”

A thick vein on Gardner’s head throbbed. He was seething. He wanted to break something. He had spent three years toiling away in obscurity, stuck in dusty rooms filling out paperwork or guarding useless artefacts, as penance for the incident in Atlantis. Now through no fault of his own it was being used to drag him back down again.

If Dugan was still around, he would never have hung Gardner out to dry like this.

But Dugan wasn’t around anymore. His successor Maria Hill was the anti-Dugan. She’d had it in for Gardner from the moment she’d met him. She was a stickler for rules, structure and hierarchy who had made the decision early to make rank rather than cut her teeth in the field.

He wanted to bawl her out for it but even in his angered state knew it would be counterproductive. He’d be playing right into her hands. Instead he took a deep, calming breath, closed his eyes, and tried to get his temper under control.

When he opened them his voice was significantly quieter than before. “This is bullshit, Maria, and you know it.”

“You’re done, Gardner.”

Guy shook his head angrily at the suggestion. “Let’s see what Fury has to say about that.”

A cold smile crossed the deputy director’s lips. For the first time Hill confirmed Guy’s suspicions and let on that she was enjoying taking him down a peg.

“You think Fury is going to tell you something different? Fury doesn’t give a damn about you. Face it, Gardner, Dugan’s not around to save your behind this time. You’re done.”

The two locked eyes across Hill’s desk. Their contempt for one another was almost suffocating.

“I don’t have to listen to this horseshit.”

Guy leapt out of his seat and stormed towards the exit. He pressed a panel on the door to Hill’s office and it slid open. He stood fuming in the doorway for a few seconds. Beside the door was a waste paper basket. Guy looked over his shoulder at Hill, who was watching on with a bemused smile, before booting the basket across the room. With that done he stamped his way out.

The waiting admin staff scattered as the fuming Gardner approached.

“Don’t you pen-pushers have some photocopying to do?” Guy shouted at them. “Fucking cockroaches.”

In the distance Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben appeared. They stepped out of the elevator to the twenty-eighth floor escorted by a junior SHIELD agent for their meeting with Hill. Ben Grimm spotted Gardner walking towards them and shot the SHIELD agent a mischievous smile. When it wasn’t returned he realised that something was wrong.

“What’s a matter, Carrot Top?” Ben called out jovially. “Someone pee in your cereal this morning?”

Gardner pushed past them without so much as look in their direction.

“Must be having a bad day or something,” Grimm muttered to Johnny.

Johnny nodded in agreement and pointed discreetly to his sister and Reed. “He’s not the only one.”

Reed and Sue had barely spoken since Sue had accepted Namor’s proposal on the roof of the Pegasus. To say that it made things awkward was an understatement. Usually Reed and Sue were inseparable, but they had been anything but the past twelve hours or so. It was impossible not to notice. Ben and Johnny had been walking on eggshells around them ever since.

A young SHIELD agent scuttled out Hill’s with a dented waste paper basket under their arm as they made their approach.

“I hope we’ve not caught you at a bad time,” Reed Richards said with a polite smile. “We can come back another time.”

“Nothing I can’t handle,” Hill said as she stood up from behind her desk and gestured to the four of them to step inside. “Please take a seat. The five of us have a lot to discuss.”

Hill dismissed their escort with a nod and the Fantastic Four shuffled in to Maria’s office. She sauntered towards the large meeting table in the corner of her room and took a seat at the head of it. Reed took the seat to her right hand and Sue awkwardly slid around him to sit at Maria’s left. Ben and Johnny exchanged an awkward smile as they decided where to sit. Ben slid into the seat beside Reed and Johnny next to Sue.

“I understand that Agent Gardner informed you of the fate of your counterparts in this world,” Maria began by way of introduction.

Ben bristled beside Reed. Sensing his disapproval, Sue responded to Hill as matter-of-factly as possible. “That’s correct.”

“I’d like to apologise for that,” Hill said curtly. “That wasn’t Agent Gardner’s information to disclose.”

This time there was no stopping Ben. His fist clunked against the table so loudly that Johnny jumped in his seat.

“Are you kidding me? You’re apologising for Gardner telling us the truth, not for covering up our deaths? You’ve got some front, lady.”

Hill grimaced.

“What would you have us do, Mr. Grimm? Tell the world that the most expensive space expedition in living memory ended in the incineration of the world’s smartest man? Reed Richards was on the cover of TIME magazine at twelve years of age. The people of this world thought his research was going to put an end to climate change. How do you think they'd respond if we told them that he was burnt alive on our watch?”

“You can try and dress it up however you want,” Ben said with a disapproving mumble. “It don’t make it right.”

Hill pinched the bridge of her nose. “Right and wrong is a luxury I cannot always afford in this job, I’m afraid.”

Reed watched on in silence. He knew very little about this world’s Reed Richards but the more he learned about him, the more sorry he felt for him. From the sound of things, their Reed had been forced into the spotlight much earlier than he had been. When Reed had been twelve years old, he’d been building his first teleportation device in his father’s garage. He couldn’t imagine how isolating all that pressure must have been.

“What’s done is done,” Sue said with a conciliatory look towards Ben. “What we we need to know now is whether you’re willing to help us get home? If you’ve seen our interviews then you understand why we left – and why it’s so important that we get back.”

Hill nodded. “Yes, you have unfinished business with this Darkseid character.”

“Unfinished business?” Johnny said with a frown. “Darkseid conquered our entire world, Hill. Imagine everyone you know, everyone you’ve ever known, dead at one man’s feet. The people you've fought alongside for years enslaved – turned into instruments of death. I don’t know if 'unfinished business' quite does that justice.”

Ben approvingly banged his fist against the table. “You tell her, Matchstick.”

Hill sighed and pressed a button on the desk. In front of them, at the centre of the desk, a holographic image of Darkseid appeared.

“Don’t let me language fool you, Mr. Storm, I am aware of the threat that Darkseid poses. Our world has yet to encounter these Apokoliptians the four of you spoke of in your interviews with Gardner – but we’ve already begun to prepare for them. The best strategists that SHIELD have to offer have been working around the clock wargaming for a potential Apokoliptian invasion.”

The hologram of Darkseid’s face was replaced by images of Earth’s newfound protectors lining up to defend their world against an invasion force. Projections of possible successful defensive strategies played out before them. The four watched on, unimpressed by the display, having lived the battles themselves and found SHIELD’s efforts to be lacking.

“This is all well and good,” Reed said with a dismissive glance at the holograms. “But how exactly does that help us, Maria? With all due respect, we’re not here to be reassured that your world is well-defended, we’re here because we need your help to return to ours.”

Maria swallowed hard as she considered his question. “You’ll have all the help that SHIELD can offer you, but I can’t promise that our scientists will be able to get you home.”

“You leave that part to me,” Richards responded resolutely.

“Given that the whole world thinks that the four of you are still travelling through space I’m afraid you’ll have to be confined to the Triskelion while you do your research,” Hill said dispassionately. “But rest assured that your every need will be seen to while you’re here.”

Reed’s nose wrinkled with displeasure. “I don’t think that’s going to work. I’m going to need to enlist the help of some of my – well, Reed’s – contemporaries if we’re going to have a shot at getting home. I can’t do that from here.”

“I’m with Stretch on this one,” Ben said as he placed his rocky hands behind his head. “There’s no way I’m being cooped up in this place like some kind of common criminal. And before you consider suggesting that we don’t have a choice in the matter, I’d like to point out that all the boy scouts in the world couldn’t stop us from walking out of here if we wanted to.”

Maria Hill lent back in her seat as she mulled over the ramifications of letting the four of them roam around America without supervision. How long would it be before someone got a picture of Reed? Grimm wasn’t inconspicuous and if this Johnny Storm was anything like theirs he wouldn’t be out of the headlines for long.

Suddenly a small smile crept onto Hill’s lips as a potential resolution was revealed to her.

“You make a convincing case, Mr. Grimm.”

She stood up from her seat abruptly as if to announce that their meeting had come to an end. Ben looked to Sue, slightly confused, and she gestured to him to stand up with the rest of them. Hill took a glance down at her watch to check the time and then shook Reed’s hand firmly.

“Give us twenty-four hours to finish going over your tests results and we’ll have you relocated somewhere I think you’ll find slightly more comfortable.”

With that Hill called to the junior SHIELD agent outside to collect them. Reed and Ben departed first with Sue and Johnny following shortly after them. As Johnny reached the doorway to Hill’s office he lingered for a moment and then turned back to face Hill.

“By the way, your hologram thingy is wrong,” Johnny said as his mind reached into the past. “Darkseid's eyes aren’t black. They’re red.”
Not self aware enough to not double post though.

Landing Deck, Pegasus Helicarrier

High above the Atlantic Ocean the battle reached its twenty-third minute. Reed Richards and Sue and Johnny Storm worked in unison to repel an endless wave of attacks from Namor and Namora. Reed’s impossibly malleable form wrapped itself around their limbs, constricting and binding them, while the siblings Storm took their turns launching ranged attacks. The Atlanteans showed no sign of tiring.

In fact the more Namor fought the stronger he seemed to get. Reed could feel his prying, searching fingers digging into him in an attempt to tear him apart with his bare hands. For a few moments Richards had feared that he really might. This Namor seemed stronger than the one in their world.

Fireball after fireball peppered Namora. Johnny endeavoured to draw her away from her cousin. She was smaller than Namor – and markedly weaker – so Storm felt less terrified by the prospect of her man-handling him like a children’s doll. For the most part his assessment had proven correct. He had, however, underestimated her speed despite having witnessed her despatching Ben with ease.

As the battle inched towards its thirtieth minute, the Fantastic Three began to show signs of fatigue. The Atlantean encroachment reached further and further each wave. Soon Reed’s attempts to frustrate Namor by entangling him backfired.

The Atlantean used the lasso-like Reed to pluck Johnny from the sky and twisted Reed into a makeshift rope to throttle Storm with.

“Sue!” Reed called out to his fiance as he recognised that Johnny’s face was turning purple. “We could use a little bit of help here!”

Sue’s eyes widened as she noticed her brother was in danger – and she fired a construct at Namora that sent her barrelling towards the edge of the Pegasus.

“Enough,” Sue said as she raised a hand threateningly in the Atlantean’s direction.

“You dare to command me, woman?” Namor laughed. “I have the blood of Emperor Thakorr coursing through my veins.”

Had Namor known Sue Storm better he would have recognised the look in her eyes.

“It’s not your blood you should be worrying about.”

A hard-light construct appeared around Namor’s neck. It clamped so tightly and suddenly that he released the Reed rope and Johnny fell free from his arms. Storm gasped for air desperately and clambered away from the Atlantean who had begun to float above the ground.

From across the Pegasus, Namora spotted Namor clawing at his neck to try to remove the construct. “Cousin!”

As she went to break towards them the sudden appearance an orange hand wrapped itself around her leg.

“Oh no, you don’t. Let’s see how you like a taste of your own medicine, Little Mermaid.”

Ben Grimm had spent the best part of half an hour swimming back towards the Pegasus. His head was still ringing from the force of Namora’s punch – but he was conscious enough to know that he wasn’t about to let no fish-woman ambush Suzie.

He held onto her leg as she tried to claw her way towards her cousin.

“That sensation you’re feeling?” Sue Storm said as she again tightened the construct around Namor’s neck. “That’s desperation. Something tells me it’s probably not a feeling you’re familiar with but you will be once I’m finished with you.”

Johnny’s voice was still ailing from the chokehold Namor had placed him in. He watched on as the King of Atlantis struggled in vain. Beside Johnny, a discombobulated Reed began to re-form.

Namor’s prying had all but fried Reed’s brain for a few moments but once he had returned to the land of the living his mouth fell agape at what he was witnessing.

“You’re going to learn what it feels like not to be in complete control for once,” Sue shouted. This time her voice, so calm and soothing usually, was laced with hostile intent. “You’re going to learn what it feels like to watch your world burn all around you.”

Reed placed his hand on her fiance’s shoulder in an attempt to coax her out from beneath her rage. It had been Sue that had stressed calm at first – but seeing her only brother on the brink of death had awoken something within the Invisible Woman.

She had been reminded of a time that young Johnny had almost choked to death on some chewing gum as a kid. It was a few years after their father had been sent to prison. Sue was all that Johnny had left. So when she found him purple, airway blocked, near death, her whole life had come crashing down around her.

And there, if only for the briefest of moments, she recalled who that had felt.

“Sue,” Reed murmured to his fiance without an ounce of judgement in his voice. “Sue, this is not who you are.”

Her breathing slowed and slowly Sue regained her calm. Namor had slumped to his knees, hands rubbing his throat and Adam’s apple, as he tried to take stock of what had happened to him.

“You almost killed me, you stupid woman,” Namor snarled.

Johnny Storm smiled a proud smile. “And she still could too, bozo.”

“And then what? What is it that you think would happen afterwards, you mewling ignoramus? Every able-bodied Atlantean would take up arms against the surface world and fight until the oceans frothed with blood.”

Though a little worse-for-wear, Reed Richards sensed his opportunity to reason with the Atlantean king for a second time.

“There must be some way to end this peacefully, Namor.”

This time there was a flicker of indecision from Namor. It was brief – almost indiscernible to the normal eye – but Reed spotted it. Something had changed in his mind.

Namora however was still determined to bring Gardner to heel. “No more bargains, cousin. Let us end this once and f-”

“Would you quit your bellyaching already? None of us would be in this mess if you’d just told Carrot Top to shove it,” Ben shouted.

Namora’s features twisted with rage and she prepared to charge the Thing for a second time. This time Ben seemed prepared for it. Before she could move, her cousin Namor clamped his hand around her arm to keep her in place. The indecision had gone. Atlantis’ king had decided upon a course of action.

“I have a proposition for you, Reed Richards.”

“Oh, I don’t like the sound of that at all,” Ben whispered to Johnny sheepishly.

“I will pledge to put an end to my war with the surface world immediately – I will even disavow my right to exact vengeance against that buffoon Gardner – in exchange for a simple boon.”

Reed’s ears pricked up. In one move he could put an end to a conflict that all of Nick Fury and SHIELD had failed to for decades. It wasn’t just the lives lost. It was the prospect of cooperation with a culture whose understanding of technology and magic would help fuel groundbreaking new technologies. Who in their right minds would turn down such a deal? There was no price that wasn’t worth paying for such a thing.

At least Reed didn’t think so until Namor named his price.

“Your mate.”

The words struck Reed like a punch to the chest. “Excuse me?!”

Namor smiled wryly and looked directly at Sue.

“Never has someone defied me the way you did, Susan Storm. You would make for an incredible mate were you not a feeble surface-dweller – but you look strong enough to survive a single night with the King of Atlantis.”

Johnny had heard enough. First Namor had almost choked the life out of him and now he thought he could treat his sister like chattel to be bought and sold. Johnny was going to show him what real pain was.

“I am going to burn you alive, you no-good son of a b-”

Before the insult left his mouth, Sue strode forward and extended her hand in Namor’s direction. “I agree.”

Reed could feel his heart in his throat.

“Sue, you can’t be serious?”

His fiance did not so much as acknowledge his question. Instead she stood resolutely before Namor waiting for him to shake her hand as an equal. The Atlantean king glanced down at the hand, as if unfamiliar with the custom, until Sue prompted him to shake it.

“Do we have a deal or not?”

Namor relented and took Sue’s hand.

“Yes, Susan, we have a deal,” Namor agreed. “One day in the near future I will call upon you and you will be my honoured guest for a night. Rest assured that I will be true to my word – the debaser will come to no harm by my hand or any acting on my behalf. That much I promise.”

Namora fumed from within Namor’s grip. “This is an outrage.”

“Silence, Namora.”

As if emboldened by Sue’s defiance, the Atlantean heiress refused to be ordered into silence.

“You would trade my honour for one night with this surface-dwelling pigl-”

Where Namor’s words had failed, his eyes succeeded. He turned to Namora with a look that made her turn white. His rough hands had tightened around her arm to the point that she could not feel her forearm. She feared him, as all Atlanteans feared their king, as he was the rage of Poseidon.

“Forgive me, my king.”

He nodded in acceptance and let her arm slip from his hand. With their bargain struck, he also released Sue’s hand. There was a tense moment when Reed and Namor locked eyes but the king seemed nonplussed by the super scientist’s displeasure. Ben and Johnny watched on, shocked, as Namor and Namora turned to leave.

The long tentacle that had been holding the Pegasus in place unfurled and the Atlanteans rode the arm down beneath the surface.

The Fantastic Four stood alone on the edge of the Pegasus staring at the sea beneath them. They were lost for words. Reed’s sense of betrayal hung so heavily in the air that it was almost tangible. Sue dared not look in her fiance’s direction. Only Ben dared break to the silence.

He rubbed his jaw where Namora had blindsided him earlier and then looked over at Johnny despairingly. “What a revoltin’ development.”
Fuck you. I'm young and on fleek.



It's moments like these that I wish there were a super-dislike button.

Or a "fuck you" button.
Perhaps for those that re-apply we replace the "What makes this character 'Ultimate'?" section with a brief explanation as to how you plan to have your character develop from Year One to Year Two.

Landing Deck, Pegasus Helicarrier

It had all started six years ago. Back then Guy Gardner was serving as Dum Dum Dugan’s aide. Dugan had taken Gardner under his wing – and shadowing him around all day had allowed Guy to enjoy experiences he could never have even dreamt of when he was busting his ass as a social worker back in Baltimore.

But Guy being Guy meant that he started to take his position for granted. The rest of his class from the SHIELD academy were out in the field kicking ass and taking names. Clay-freaking-Quartermain had turned into a super-spy. It was ridiculous. Guy was better than Quartermain. He was better than all of them.

Maybe that was why he did it.

On the first SHIELD diplomatic mission to Atlantis in years, Guy made a decision that would come to shape the next six years of his life – and land him in deep water with SHIELD high brass.

The Atlantean warrior-king Namor had laid on a feast to mark the occasion. It was an uncharacteristically convivial gesture from a king renowned for his unparalleled austerity. Nick Fury was named the guest of honour and Gardner had even been given the privilege of sitting at the top table with him alongside Dugan.

Dining alongside an Atlantean king might have been enough to sate some people’s need for conquest but Guy wasn’t most people. He had his eyes set on another prize. Namely, the leggy blonde built like an Amazonian that was sat by Namor’s side.

After half of the court had retired and Gardner had put down dozens of flaggons of the finest Atlantean ale, he made his approach. To his surprise, he had found the blonde to be receptive to his charm. They retired to a nearby bedchamber and made sweet, hasty, disappointing subterranean love.

That night, some 20,000 leagues under the sea, Agent Gardner slept as soundly as he had ever slept before.

Little did he know that all of Atlantis would be in open revolt by the morning. The blonde was none other than Namor’s cousin – and heir – Namora. To make matters worse their “union” had been her first. Atlantean customs dictated that the heir to the throne remain chaste until paired off with a suitable mate.

Needless to say Guy didn’t quite meet the criteria.

The entire SHIELD delegation had been hauled from their beds at trident-point. Court was assembled and Agent Gardner was made to recount his “crimes” in front of Fury and Duggan. With each word, the pair’s decade-long attempt to broker a lasting peace between the surface world and Atlantis died a brutal death.

So to would Gardner for his actions – or so proclaimed King Namor before all of his subjects. Only some quick-thinking from a SHIELD boffin named Rachna Koul provided Gardner with a lifeline. Those sentenced to death by royal decree were entitled to a trial by combat.

Namor’s most trusted general Argos offered himself as the crown’s champion. He stood all of seven feet tall and weighed as much as a school bus. To face Argos was to face certain death. But Guy had always had something of a knack for defying impossible odds. After surviving an onslaught of hammer blows from Argos, Guy had driven his trident through the general’s throat and killed him on the spot.

Bound by custom to grant Gardner his life, Namor vowed to exact unholy revenge upon the SHIELD agent if ever their paths crossed again. The SHIELD delegation left in disgrace, with Fury and Dugan's decade-long peace deal in tatters, and Guy spent the best part of the next three years stuck in administrative hell.

“I don’t see what the big deal is, if you ask me,” Johnny Storm said as he reflected on Guy’s tale. “The guy slept with Namor’s cousin, so what? I’ve slept with lots of people’s cousins.”

Sue let out a sigh that was half-exasperation and half-disgust. “You're impossible sometimes, Jonathan.”

The Fantastic Four had accepted Agent Gardner’s proposition. They hadn’t had much choice. Guy had theorised that the Pegasus had unwittingly crossed Atlantean “airspace” while flying low on their way back from Latveria. And Namor had sensed that now was his moment to strike.

Why it fell to Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben to resolve the situation was anyone’s guess. But if someone didn’t stop Namor from tearing the Pegasus apart, a lot of lives were going to be lost.

The four of them stood in the elevator as it slid up through the Pegasus’ floors.

Sue looked to Reed for direction. “How are we doing this, Reed?”

“The same way we always do it. We’ll try to talk sense into Namor first. If that doesn’t work, we’ll need to find a way to restrain him and Namora. We do not want to fight them at sea. The air is our best bet. The more dehydrated they get the less powerful they’ll be, so bear that in mind while we’re out there.”

Sue nodded in agreement. In the corner of the elevator a bashful grin appeared on Ben Grimm’s face.

“What?” Johnny eyed Ben suspiciously. “What are you grinning about, ugly?”

Ben shrugged.

“Just feels good to get back to business, y’know? Good old-fashioned clobbering.”

Hearing even a hint of Ben’s old catchphrase brought a smile to all of their faces. He was right. In their world, they had faced down countless attacks on the surface world by Namor and the Atlanteans. He wasn’t quite their oldest adversary – that moniker went to Moleman – but he was close to it.

It almost felt like old times.

As the doors to the elevator opened, Sue turned to Ben and Johnny with a concerned look. “Remember – this is about conflict resolution. We’re not looking to start a fight.”

There was a loud crash as Namor tore another piece of the Pegasus free and threw it angrily in the sea beneath them. He roared with anger while his cousin Namora stood on with a dejected scowl that seemed permanently carved into her face.

Reed walked towards them as slowly as he could. Sue, Johnny and Ben followed a few paces behind him. Once they had drew within ten metres of them, the Atlanteans turned to face them.

“Namor, my name is Reed Richards, my friends and I are here to broker a peace between you and SHI-”

“Silence, whelp,” Namor commanded with a disdainful look.

Ben stole a playful look in Johnny’s direction. “Looks like Namor’s the same as ever.”

Namor strode towards the four of them. He made no attempt to hide the contempt contained in his steely grey eyes. To deny it would be to deny the divine right imbued in him by Poseidon himself. It was clear even by the way the Atlantean moved his limbs that he possessed the power to cleave nations apart with his hands.

It was a power he had used before and meant to use again if denied satisfaction.

“I have no interest in peace. I am here to claim the debaser Gardner’s head. Until it is laid at my feet, the combined armies of Atlantis will wage unending war on the surface world. No man, woman or child will be safe from my rage.”

Ben pinched the bridge of his rocky nose and sighed. “Yeesh, c’mon tuna breath, you gotta at least try to be reasonable here.”

“You dare!”

The words had barely left Namora’s mouth by the time her fist collided with Ben Grimm’s face. The impact of the punch was so powerful that it sent the Thing flying from the roof of the Pegasus into the sea below them.

Johnny was caught between wincing and laughing as he saw Ben bouncing across the water like a skimming stone.

He glanced at Sue with a haughty smile. “Looks like conflict resolution’s out of the window, sis.”

Storm blasted both Namora and Namor with a wave of flames that sent them flying backwards and Reed and Sue joined the battle. Without Ben there to provide them with muscle they were hopelessly outmatched. But the Fantastic Four had built their careers on doing the impossible – and they had no intention of giving up now.
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