The M16 has been in service since the 1962, the AK-47 has been in service since 1948. They're already old, but they are effective. Trust me when I say I don't think either will just disappear from the battlefield in the space of five years, weapons have longer life cycles than people give them credit for

Also, don't assume newer = better. Most newer weapons (Especially US/NATO ones) use 5.56mm in order to wound the opponent, while the AK fires 7.62mm. AK shots, needless to say, are generally more deadly if they hit. Neither is better, it's a trade off.

Now, the reasoning behind the 5.56 is that a wounded man takes more resources than a dead man. Good reasoning for fighting human enemies (Or not so much, if you have heard the reports that some insurgents are supposedly so fanatic that they continue to fight you to the death anyway) but not so good for fighting the Xcom aliens. Why? Well, do you think the Ethereals really give a shit that you wounded a Muton or Sectoid? Hell, would a muton even feel it?

The Ethereals seem like the type who'd be more willing just to let them die than heal them, and even if they aren't they probably have the tech to heal them up and pump them back out asap (They can genetically engineer species, have plasma weapons, cybernetic implants and anti-gravity/reverse gravity technology. I think they can probably heal up their troops pretty fast xD Though, we won't know this about the aliens at first, it'll likely be a bit of a painful learning experience when we realise the alien logistics aren't being effected the way one might hope when wounding their soldiers. Maybe a way of revealing this might be to find a sectoid who just got dumped and left for dead because he got wounded?)

Of course, 7.62 is considered less accurate and has more recoil than 5.56.

But your mileage will vary depending on the situation. Berserker charging you? Damage. Trading fire with sectoids who are in cover? Accuracy.
It'll really be the players decision to look at such a trade off

Well see though it is a trade off. Sure the AK is powerful, But you get more accuracy with like the M4. It may only take you 1 round with an AK to kill a guy, but if you are a trained operative or something then you can get those three rounds on center mass pretty quick. Doesn't matter how fanatical you are, you get three rounds in your chest and one to the head you are dead. I like Accuracy, power i could really give a shit. and most likely we will be engaging things in long or medium range in the beginning. Close range combat with a new type of species? That would be fairly deadly. This is of course my opinion. But you would want to learn their physiology first before you were going in close enough for an AK to definitely not miss it's target. And by the time we get to mutons we will probably have some sort of alien weaponry.

An accurate but less damaging bullet is more likely to get inside an aliens head, so...Then again, alien physiology could be vastly different from our own.

Anyways, we really need reliable side arms. Unlike in X-Com, real pistols are still very deadly. Take a modern revolver, for example. That shit could kill an alien.

But see it is all in how you use it. An m9 in the right hands is fairly deadly. If you have the skill to use it then it won't matter the size of the bullet in most cases. And we will most likely be carrying our own sidearms from our own countries. So with that in mind we should be able to have a good amount of diversity, yet still be effective.

RPCWhite said
Well see though it is a trade off. Sure the AK is powerful, But you get more accuracy with like the M4. It may only take you 1 round with an AK to kill a guy, but if you are a trained operative or something then you can get those three rounds on center mass pretty quick. Doesn't matter how fanatical you are, you get three rounds in your chest and one to the head you are dead. I like Accuracy, power i could really give a shit. and most likely we will be engaging things in long or medium range in the beginning. Close range combat with a new type of species? That would be fairly deadly. This is of course my opinion. But you would want to learn their physiology first before you were going in close enough for an AK to definitely not miss it's target. And by the time we get to mutons we will probably have some sort of alien weaponry.

Yes it isn't a good idea to get into Close range combat with a new type of species... but the Berserker can take a plasma sniper rifle shot (Hell, plasma pistols can blow away entire walls) and continue to charge you. Like it or not, he's going get close to you. Even the sectoids end up being pretty close to you in xcom, remember, all they need (on the harder difficulties at least) is a single shot to knock your recruits dead and given their bad accuracy the sectoids probably don't want to end up in long range engagements (They're using pistols, we're using rifles, they are going want to close that distance)
Also, in EU you research alien weaponry super fast. Unless we're going to make massive bounds within the first of these 'seasons', we're probably going to be using ballistics for a while
Shooting someone in the head is a lot harder than hitting them in the torso, soldiers are taught to aim for the center mass as a result. Jihadists have been known to continue fighting with bullets in them, humans are more resilient than we give ourselves credit for
The size of the bullet seems to matter to the SAS and the US marines, both have argued a case for larger bullets to be used:
"The bullets upgrade – and a new range of rifles designed to fire them – were recommended in a top-secret report on SAS operations in Afghanistan. It called for a return to a ‘shoot-to-kill’ policy and for heavier rounds to be issued to troops. The report’s authors described bloody clashes with Taliban jihadists who managed to ignore their bullet wounds and carry on shooting" - Daily Mail article talking a bout a recommendation by the SAS to upgrade up from 5.56
"‘But this backfired against the Taliban. The 5.56 mm rounds did not take a big enough chunk out of them, allowing fanatical insurgents to keep on fighting despite their wounds." - SAS regiment insider
"They [US Marines] all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cannot be reliably counted on to put the enemy down." - Paraphrased to a reporter by a father after talking to his marine son (In defence of the 5.56 however, he mentions that autopsy reports show that many insurgents are drugged up)

Also, while saying three shots to the chest will put an enemy down... on classic mode a sectoid who is wearing nothing has nearly as much health as an armoured rookie, so I gotta argue that here 7.62 vs 5.56 is much more important to consider than on a conventional battlefield, because we will end up fighting aliens who will just blink and say 'What...' if you shoot them with ballistics. Thin men on classic have just one less hp than a soldier in body armour.

Basically, my argument is

7.62 vs 5.56 is much more important because it seems even the basic aliens are pretty tough considering they aren't wearing armour. Do we want to be hitting them more or packing more punch when we hit them?
These aliens obviously have superior weapons. The sectoids are terribly inaccurate however, so we likely will end up in CQC with them because they are likely to try and push up to counter this
As a result, the trade off is more important than irl.

Basically, we're talking a choice between EW's reaper rounds vs standard rounds (though slightly less ridiculously inaccurate than reaper rounds were lol). Both have their ups and downs, and here it's going to be painfully obvious. If we miss that muton, he'll probably melt us, if we fail to kill that berserker, he'll crush us.

As for side arms, we'll likely bring the side arms of our country and their respective service branch. So if you're character comes from a poorer country you'll likely be using older weaponry, while if you come from a richer country you'll be using modern weaponry. You're mileage may vary as a result

I'd still take the increased aim of 5.56.

If you put enough shots into something, it will die.

Increased damage but less accuracy = Theoretically gets the job done quicker, but not many shots will hit from less accuracy.
Increased accuracy but less damage = Will hit more.

Honestly, if you're going up close and personal with something, that's what a shotgun is for. Fill em up with buck shot, Assaults.

Shoot down the muton with more accuracy.

Blow the berserker away with increased damage.

This is where teamwork and squads come to play, guys. It isn't WE CAN ONLY CHOOSE ONE WEAPON FOR EACH OF US. It's a squad of different people. Some are going to take the 7.62 and some will take 5.56

One question; as XCOM is a paramilitary organisation, would you allow non-military recruits? So security operatives, police, African mercs etc etc.
And as an ex-Royalie, 7.62 chambered rifles would have made the world of difference in Afghan. Using the ANA's AK-47s, we often found that they were more effective than our own 5.56 SA80s when fired semi-automatic.
In this context, you wouldn't want to bring a 5.56 rifle to fight a Muton. Just no. But that doesn't mean that 5.56 doesn't have it's uses; it would be more handy when fighting in rural terrain or in open spaces. But in urban combat or when assaulting a UFO, a 7.62 is the way to go.

All I'm saying about bullets is pure theory, since I've never handled a gun, so it's nice to hear from someone who actually has used a gun. Cheers.

Lennon79 said
One question; as XCOM is a paramilitary organisation, would you allow non-military recruits? So security operatives, police, African mercs etc etc.And as an ex-Royalie, 7.62 chambered rifles would have made the world of difference in Afghan. Using the ANA's AK-47s, we often found that they were more effective than our own 5.56 SA80s when fired semi-automatic.In this context, you wouldn't want to bring a 5.56 rifle to fight a Muton. Just no. But that doesn't mean that 5.56 doesn't have it's uses; it would be more handy when fighting in rural terrain or in open spaces. But in urban combat or when assaulting a UFO, a 7.62 is the way to go.

The original application said 'Years of Military/Police/Security Service' If I recall correctly, and given that Xcom would end up looking for the best to line it's ranks, I can't see why they would deny someone who's proven themself to be among the best just because they aren't military.

Nice to hear a point from someone who's handled a gun as well

No worries heh.
Although come to think of it, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to put a Muton down with anything less than a 40mm grenade. Which kind of makes the 5.56/7.62 debate a tad irrelevant with larger aliens XD
^Brilliant, cheers. That opens it up to a much wider variety of specialisms.

Haha, true enough. those guys are massive behemoths coated in metal, not going to go down easy

Then we better have laser weapons before we fight our first Muton...

Anyways, seeing as there's going to be 'seasons' is there going to be an opening theme and ending theme? Or just a music theme? (Going all out X-Com TV show.)

And when a new season starts, will there be a recap on what happened last season?

ALSO DIBS ON PSIONIC SOLDIER. Or gene modded.

Don't dibs just yet, might die before you get there >:P

darkwolf687 said
Don't dibs just yet, might die before you get there >:P

Derpestein said
Just give me an Alloy Cannon or Plasma Sniper Rifle late RP and I'll be happy.

Derpestein said
Again, give me a Plasma Rifle, GM, and I'll lead the squad to victory.

I has l33t skillz.

Anyways, I still think that all weapons have their uses. If people want 7.62mm rounds then let them take a gun that uses that. I am going to stick with my M4 thank you. And if a muton is charging thats why you got M203 and a guy with a M249 SAW. And if all else fails pull out a shotgun.

darkwolf687 said
But your mileage will vary depending on the situation. Berserker charging you? Damage. fire with sectoids who are in cover? Accuracy.It'll really be the players decision to look at such a trade off

I think you just described the difference between standard and reaper rounds.

http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/Reaper_Rounds

Anyway, I’ve been itching for an XCOM RP, and this seems to be the place to find one. It’s refreshing to see things being planned out instead of the constant rush to get to the exiting bits.

Marik said
I think you just described the difference between standard and reaper rounds. Anyway, I’ve been itching for an XCOM RP, and this seems to be the place to find one. It’s refreshing to see things being planned out instead of the constant rush to get to the exiting bits.

He actually compared the discussion to standard vs reaper rounds. Hah.

---

Anyways, are we allowed to be pilots for Ravens and Firestorms?

Or can Soldiers pilot them?

You could probably have a pilot character, but as a mian that wouldn't be very fun....You would get little posts in compared to everyone else.

Whoa you guys are really discussing alot. I've skimmed through everything, and from the looks of it, you guys look like you guys could come up with some very good characters. Anyway, I've been writing up the SOP of the RP. Here's what I've done so far. I need input though, as I'm only one person. If I've missed anything out, do tell me:

In joining this RP, you must abide by the following rules and regulations:

Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) Section 1 - Personal Conduct

- All RPers directly involved in this RP or visiting must maintain civil conduct.

- In case of extended absence, RPers involved must inform the GM, Co-GM or any other members to pass on the message to the GM or Co-GM.

- In case of extended absence, RPers must leave instructions as to what to do with their characters.

- However, if an RPer is found to have disappeared without leaving a message for up to a week, his/her characters will be converted to NPC and managed by the GM or Co-GM. Characters converted to NPC will have reduced impact and presence on the RP, and will not be immune to death.

- The disappeared RPer may return anytime after disappearing, but must explain his/her extended disappearance. Unreasonable explanation will result in anything between a warning to a ban. The consequence will be decided openly in OOC by the GM and Co-GM as well as every member willing to contribute to the decision-making.

- Members of the RP may discuss and debate with the GM and/or Co-GM regarding their decisions, but may not override their final decisions.

- Co-GMs and members of the RP given any measure of responsibility and power may be removed from duty if deemed corrupted/unfit for duty/tyrannical by the GM or if there is a unanimous agreement by the members of the RP (with the GM's approval).

- The GM may be removed from duty and/or replaced if he/she is found to be missing for more than two weeks. This can only be done if there is unanimous agreement amongst the members of the RP to do so (with the Co-GM/s' approval).

Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) Section 2 - Conflict Management

- Disputes will be settled openly in OOC with the GM and/or Co-GM acting as a mediator and other members of the RP willing to step in to contribute.

- If an agreement cannot be reached, the GM and Co-GM will attempt to devise the best compromise possible. Members of the RP may help with the decision making process.

- All parties, including the GM, Co-GM, members of the RP acting as advisors and jury, and especially the stakeholder parties must maintain civil conduct during a case and state their claim reasonably.

- Disputes, especially minor ones, may be settled in PM if the stakeholder parties wish to do so. One party may not drag another into a PM meeting if he/she doesn't want to.

- Once an agreement or compromise has been reached, the case will be closed and will not be brought up again unless for official purposes.

Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) Section 3 - Joining the RP

- For the moment, the RP is accepting a maximum of 10 roleplayers at the moment, excluding the GM. This rule is subject to change.

- RPers may use one of three character sheets to create their character/s: Free-Form, Simplified or Detailed.

- Roleplayers may begin posting only when their characters have been accepted by the GM/Co-GM. Other members of the RP may give input during the decision-making process.

Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) Section 4 - Roleplaying Format

- Both casual and advance roleplayers (or anyone in between) will be allowed to join this roleplay. As such, rules found in both styles will be incorporated.

- The basement number of allowed paragraphs will be one. However, if an RPer is posting in a bare-minimum, the paragraph in question must be substantial in some ways, including but not exclusively in terms of storytelling, technical language, character development.

- There will be no ceiling number of paragraphs/maximum length per post. However, do not spam.

- There must be no significant amount of mistakes be it grammatical, tense, vocabulary, etc unless intended as a writing style or part of a character's personality or development.

- Roleplayers may write about their characters acting, reacting, thinking, feeling or saying something, etc, but may not decide the results said character/s' actions.

- In the case of RPer-Rper interaction, members must have mutual agreement of the results. In other words, no power-playing or God-modding.

- In the case of RPer-NPC interactions, the GM/Co-GM will decide the results but members of the RP will get a say in things. Final decision, however, lies with the GM/Co-GM.

- Each member of the RP may control two characters maximum. This rule may be subject to change.

- Members of the RP may not keep posting should another member stopped posting. As with the above rule in section 1, members of the RP must wait for up to a week if one member stopped posting.

- Complementing the above rule, an RPer may post up to three times before waiting, but must not contradict any previous posts/plot developments/character interactions. Do not post just for the sake of posting.

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Also, just in case: This RP will be very, very different from the previous incarnations of XCOM to date, building on them and reinventing things rather than being a collective fanfiction of it. That said, there'd still be some similarities though.

Sounds great, Dark :)

Also, RPC, just because they're a pilot doesn't mean they don't stay in base. Sure, no ground combat, but there will be ALOT of UFO's and I think ravens and firestorms require more than one lone pilot, so...