Hellis said
It really isn't. Its attracting attention from other sources while disgruntled gamers will return to shit over their articles. Sensationalism is effective in that regard.

This is why news media always tries to prolong horrifying tragedies, even propping up "opposing theories" that have no basis in reality. This is why Fox loves to rag on anything not Christian or why MSNBC is completely insane. This is why every major news broadcast uses the exact same formula nearly down to the minute: Because people will watch it if you structure it right. The expression "unable to look away from a train wreck" sounds apt here.

Could not have worded it better.

If that is the case, the news seriously needs to get thrown out. >.<

I know I might sound like "Perfect world idealist" here, but as long as such corruption exist in news than the news isn't even doing their job. They're just causing pointless drama.

Off Topic, but I ran into this article here: http://kotaku.com/japans-xbox-one-launch-as-sad-as-youd-expect-1630411606?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

About Xbox One sales doing outright awful in Japan. I'm willing to believe it, but the people claiming it are Kotaku. People caught lying in the Zoe Quinn case.

And since I haven't followed Zoe Quinn's closely enough to know exactly which sites have and haven't been caught corrupt in this, I'm wondering if there's any game sites people know without a doubt were not caught being dishonest in such a way.

-double post-

Kotaku is tripe. But I have not seen the lies you talk coming from them. Their editor went out and clarified that the person in relationship with Quinn never reviewed any of her games for them and what not. The thing in this case, is that Kotaku is aimed at japanese centric stuff and if there is anything I trust them on, its the console market over there.

I don't see any relation to the Zoe Quinn case in this and it feels irrelavant. Kotaku is SUPER sensitive regarding Social Justice things though so it doesn't come as a chock that they dipped into the debate at some point.

Double Post.

It's the fact Kotaku showed themselves to be dishonest at all that has me questioning.
Plus, with the current "Gamers are dying" push in reaction... The Console sales failing story could be connected.

No. YOu are scrambling for a connection there that does not exist at all. The japanese console market is notuoriusly hard for non-japanese consoles to sell in. So hard a sell in fact, we had a entire course about it in game dev. "Foreign, internalized market climates; Japan"

There is no connection. Drop that line of thought, it makes you look silly.

Edit; PS4 sells well in japan. Becouse it is a japanese console with japanese developers working on game tailored for that very demographic. Xbox is a very "western" console. All its exclusives are the kind Japanese players generally don't care for. Your constant attempts to connect things into a wider conspiracy is silly at best and willfully ignorant at worst.

Sensationalism is behind "death of gamers" trend right now, but this is not part of it. Kotaku is a japan-centric site. They followed something that really is of note if you have ANY interest in the whole Xbox vs PS4 console race. The "Death of gamers" is a spin on the whole "Gamers being angry" thing. Gamers as a demographic in itself is a buzzword by the marketing teams. It spawned such innane stuff as Hardcore vs Casual and you don't have to search much to find how badly people want to distinguish themselves as it, likely becouse they think it gives them some sort of status. And then you have the whole thing were people critize "Gamer Girls", calling them fakes and what not. Acting outrage that someone else attach Gamer to themselves in some sort of retarded sense of elitism and exclusivity.

Gamer became a selling point ages ago. And now selfdescribed 'Journalists' are using it to garner views. Becouse all the selfproffessed 'Gamers' go "HEY. THAT*S ME. I'M NOT DYING" and click it to argue. It's super easy to understand if you have any sort of perspective beyond "Radicalized internet Feminism and lies are bad". Lies are bad, that is not exactly science. Crazy, untouchable idealists of any agenda is always bad as well. But what else is bad is that when we forego all sorts sense to start connecting irrelavant things together.

People are stupid. People are vain. People have a incredibly exploitable mindset. Gaming culture is money, for critics and supporters alike.

Hellis said No. YOu are scrambling for a connection there that does not exist at all.

No, I'm saying I don't trust Kotaku as a source for this story because they proved dishonest.
I specifically clarified that I find the story believable, but I need to hear it from somewhere that hasn't already shown themselves to lie to actually regard it as fact.

Surely the concept of a credible source isn't foreign to you.

Hellis said -obvious facts on consoles-

Your constant attempts to connect things into a wider conspiracy is silly at best and willfully ignorant at worst.

Please, stop confusing the want for credible sources and questioning of one's honesty as supporting a conspiracy.

Hellis said -obvious facts on gamer culture-

Yes the battle between casual and hardcore gamer term is ongoing, and the gamer girl craze is still alive. But this has nothing to do with wanting a credible source, and not trusting Kotaku.

Hellis said It's super easy to understand if you have any sort of perspective beyond "Radicalized internet Feminism and lies are bad". Lies are bad, that is not exactly science. Crazy, untouchable idealists of any agenda is always bad as well. But what else is bad is that when we forego all sorts sense to start connecting irrelavant things together.People are stupid. People are vain. People have a incredibly exploitable mindset. Gaming culture is money, for critics and supporters alike.

*Passively Aggressively Implying my only perspective is not liking feminism*

If you actually bothered listening to my points (or were even paying attention when I clarified my issue was strictly with third wave feminism) I doubt you'd still be trying to suggest that's my only perspective.
Have you ever posted in any gaming threads here? Like say the Xbox One topic when that was still active? If so you'd be well aware your post was nothing but echoing stuff I've already said in the past, so trying to lecture me on it is redundant.

No.
I see you still stick to the whole "Summarize points in the most patronizing way possible" trick. And adding personal attack by claiming i am being passive aggressive. Good golly sir, you fit right in with a MSNBC panel. Let me pay you one back shall I?

protip^ This is called snark, possibly sass. What you display is a form of elitism, trying to patronize whoever argues with you by reducing qoutes to snippets that is meant to highlight some percieved notion of inferiority such as "obvius stuff about gamer culture".

Magic Magnum said Blatant disregarding your own qoutes.

Magic; No. Just No. They showed images of the launch, it was a wasteland. They had videos of it in other coverage. They are in that regard as credible as they can get. Kotaku is also a blog based site, alot of the writers are freelance or work independant from one another. You yourself say its obvius in regards to what they are covering (consoles), yet you tried to contrive it into being part of the whole "gamer is dead" coverage. They lied (please provide a proper article/reference material about this by the wayl) about things completely unrelated to the xbox ones Japanese launch. You can backpedal all you want, it doesn't change the way presented it or tried to shohorn it into a different discussion.

All that "Obvius" stuff about gaming culture? Extremely relavant to the subject at hand as it's been linked to misogony accusations and sensationalism drivel. Gaming culture has a massive problem about exclusivity, and the gaming industry suffer from alot of heavy catering to certein demographics. So its relavant, to the topic of the thread. You don't get to wave it off. You don't have a point. Kotaku may have been dishonest in their coverage of something, they may simply have acted on lacking information. You do not know that. YOu assume, the way the very ones we critize right this moment assumed and waved their virtual pitchforks around. It was by a different person, writing a different kind of blog regarding a entirely different subject.

Passive agressive? You might wanna look up what that word means before you toss it at somebody.

Hellis said No. I see you still stick to the whole "Summarize points in the most patronizing way possible" trick.

It's called saving space, and in your case it really was stuff that is commonly discussed by gamers and since it didn't relate at all to my point on Kotaku being trustworthy I didn't need to quote it specifically.

All the stuff you said on Playstation Consoles in Japan is true. But it was not at all what I was asking about, it was off topic.
In the same way if say I asked about being able to trust Fox News, and you referenced a lot of info on say Christianity.

It wasn't what was being asked, it wasn't relevant to the question or topic at hand.

Hellis said And adding personal attack by claiming i am being passive aggressive. Good golly sir, you fit right in with a MSNBC panel.

No, the fact you outright lectured all that console stuff to me as if I didn't know a thing about it, and then went on to say that this was stuff 'anyone would know' actually is a passive aggressive of suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about. Instead of outright saying "I don't think you understand", you chose to say/suggest two different things when put together have the clear intention of that message without outright saying it.

Hellis said What you display is a form of elitism, trying to patronize whoever argues with you by reducing quotes to snippets that is meant to highlight some percieved notion of inferiority such as "obvius stuff about gamer culture".

No, it's just me rather annoyed that you're getting hostile and making assumptions about what I do and don't know about gaming.
Especially when I was simply asking if someone saw a certain story from another source, and wasn't even asking about the things you are making assumptions about me on.

And when you try to assume what I do or don't know, and then take a moral high ground as a result. I'm gonna call you out on it, and I'm not going to take the effort I usually do in these things to be nice about it. Especially since you've done this twice in the same thread, first with the feminism, now with gaming and Kotaku. Both being things where you should already known my knowledge/stance on the issues if you paid any attention to what I've said in any other thread on those topics.

Hellis said Magic; No. Just No. They showed images of the launch, it was a wasteland.

They could of very easily walked there at any time and did that. Just after selling the consoles, before a line would be formed.

Hellis said They had videos of it in other coverage.

Not the article I listed though, so I wouldn't of seen that.
And if I don't trust a source, I'm not going to spend a bunch of time looking through more articles of said source.
My time is better invested in finding a source I do trust. Which is exactly what I was doing.

Hellis said They are in that regard as credible as they can get.

Not very credible then, if it's based on easily set up pictures. Plus, if a site was willing to lie and be dishonest on one topic it is not that hard to believe to they would be dishonest on another.
That seriously should be a hard concept, that those who are dishonest can be dishonest.

Hellis said Kotaku is also a blog based site, alot of the writers are freelance or work independant from one another.

Same site approving it, same site putting it under their name.

I'd rather use a site that I can trust, than not trust sites dig through it for individuals who 'might' be trustworthy.

Hellis said You yourself say its obvious in regards to what they are covering (consoles), yet you tried to contrive it into being part of the whole "gamer is dead" coverage.

I suggested it as a possibility.

Also, just because Xbox generally isn't successful in Japan doesn't automatically mean it's going to be a total wipe. Nor does it mean all skepticism on a Kotaku should be removed. If a source is untrustworthy it should remain being seen as untrustworthy, no matter what topic they switch to.

Hellis said They lied (please provide a proper article/reference material about this by the wayl) about things completely unrelated to the xbox ones Japanese launch.

They've been listed throughout this entire discussion... You have actually been reading it and not just trying to nit-pick and villainize stuff I've been saying... right?

Hellis said You can backpedal all you want,

I'm sorry, but not fitting your pre-conceived image of who I am is not backpedaling. It's calling out bullshit.

Hellis said All that "Obvius" stuff about gaming culture? Extremely relavant to the subject at hand

I've just explained how gaming culture doesn't instantly relate to if a source is trustworthy. But please, try to convince me of this point again. Maybe you're right and then I'll back and admit to it.

Hellis said as it's been linked to misogony accusations and sensationalism drivel. Gaming culture has a massive problem about exclusivity, and the gaming industry suffer from alot of heavy catering to certein demographics.

Oh I see. It's relevant to now gaming culture isn't perfect.
Which was never once argued or denied. But it does not argue if a certain site can be trusted or not.

Seriously, let me make this perfectly clear.
An culture or industry having issues does not suddenly make a source trustworthy.
When I ask "I don't trust this source, can someone show me a trustworthy source?" it literally means that.
It does not mean "I deny that console issues, gamer discrimination etc. exists and/or I possess no knowledge on said issues".

Imagine if say a Magazine did a story on say "More people are now coming out as Gay in the Toronto Area", but this same Magazine also recently tried to accuse a boy of being raped when in fact he was raped by some girl?

If I then came to people and said "Hey guess, I just found this story about more people coming out as Gay. It sounds believable, but I'm not sure that I trust the source cause of how they tried to condemn the victim of a rape. Can I see another source?". It wouldn't then suggest or imply that this Magazine is suddenly trust worthy cause they reported one plausible story. Nor does it mean that I suddenly lack any knowledge on LGBT topics, it literally means I do not certain one source, and I'd rather have a more trustworthy one to hear from.

Hellis said So its relavant, to the topic of the thread.

Relevant to gaming? Yes.
Relevant to Zoe Quinn? No.
Relevant to if Kotaku can be trusted? No.

Hellis said You don't get to wave it off. You don't have a point.

Sorry, calling out your misrepresentations of what I'm saying is not waving it off. It's me saying "Hey, you're putting words in my mouth! That's not what I'm saying".
And just because my point is not what you want it to be doesn't mean I don't have a point. It just means I have a point, you'd rather not have to deal with me having.

Hellis said Kotaku may have been dishonest in their coverage of something, they may simply have acted on lacking information. You do not know that. YOu assume, the way the very ones we critize right this moment assumed and waved their virtual pitchforks around.

But they were still dishonest, one way or another.
May it have been intentional or not they gave false info, they did not fact check to make sure there stuff was accurate.
Therefore as a source of news and information they are unreliable and untrustworthy.

Hellis said It was by a different person, writing a different kind of blog regarding a entirely different subject.

And like stated above, same site that approved it. Under the same company/name.
Why shift through an untrustworthy site for the chance of some honest people, when I just find an honest site to begin with?

Hellis said Passive agressive? You might wanna look up what that word means before you toss it at somebody.

passive–aggressive adjective

Definition of PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE

: being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness)
— passive–aggressive noun

Such as say indirectly suggesting I know nothing about this topic? Negatively acting as if I was trying to start something on this, and making claims I didn't make?
Granted at this point you seem to be more aggressive than passive aggressive (and I admit at this point I've gone aggressive too now. Now that I'm being completely straw manned, and having someone claim I'm wrong due to two completely unrelated concepts). But regardless this was merely a note on the way you try to suggest my lack of knowledge, this holds no real relevance to the actual discussion.

So I'm dropping this Aggressive-Passive Aggressive crap now, discussing it holds no purpose.

Nothing of what you said I did correlate to the description of the word Passive agressive that you provided. I am actively critizing and commenting.

-
http://www.examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan

Not really suprised, that a 4chan driven movements have elements of racism and misogony in it. What I find interesting is the fact that there are no proof what so ever about Quinn sleeping with the kotaku guy for reviews becouse he never did reviews of her games. Or proper proof for kotaku being the terrible liars that Magnum has been calling them out on. No, a angry ex does not the same as definite proof. Especially since it got redacted.

Hellis said
Nothing of what you said I did correlate to the description of the word Passive agressive that you provided. I am actively critizing and commenting. -http://www.examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chanNot really suprised, that a 4chan driven movements have elements of racism and misogony in it. What I find interesting is the fact that there are no proof what so ever about Quinn sleeping with the kotaku guy for reviews becouse he never did reviews of her games. Or proper proof for kotaku being the terrible liars that Magnum has been calling them out on. No, a angry ex does not the same as definite proof. Especially since it got redacted.

Sorry, Hellis, you are REALLY wrong here, quite a few things have surfaced and Zoe Quinn isn't even relevant anymore (Despite everything she does to prove that she is.) . I'm on a tablet and am struggling to copy paste YouTube URLs that I can't even fucking see, so I cannot link you the video I want you to see.(YouTube URLs open the YouTube App.)

Anyway, google "Indie-fensible bigger fish to fry"

I dislike then opening he used, and he's getting a lot of shit for it (and rigly so) but it literally shows you couldn't be more wrong. :)

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/08/videogames-are-for-everybody/#more-232091

This is probably the best formulated retort to the whole thing I've read so far.

No, I'm sorry, Hellis, RPS is one of the corrupt sites that are being four againts. Posting an article that is backteracking on insults made against the community while tjw writers are continuing to insult isn't "OMG PROOF GAMERGATE IA CORRUPT!!!!1"

Seriously, #GamerGate is about ethical gaming journalism, and no mater how many times people like Anita, Anthony Burch, NeoGAF's owner, Phil Fish, and others say "ITS ABOUT MUH SOGGY KNEE, IGNORE ALL FACTS, MUH SOGGY KNEE!!!!!!" doesn't make it about misogyny. People who harass the 'opposition', threaten to Dox them, make death threats and so on are immediately reported and ignored on /v/. Literally, they are vilified and ostracized, and reported en masse. Meanwhile, you have people on 'the opposition' claiming that all minorities that are against them are just sockpuppets, and don't exist.

And when they get directly confronted, they insult/ abuse people they claim to speak for. (Will post pic at end of post.)

Now, Anita on the other hand, is highly likely to have faked death threats she recently received, and was caufht because she was careless. (Not condoning real harassment, I am #Againtsharassment) On top of that, she exposed all of her followers to CHILD FUCKING PORNOGRAPHY as a ploy to get sympathy and prove #GamerGate are a bunch of child porn loving degenerates. And even if she didn't do it on purpose, she literally just needed to type "how to report a post on twitter" on google, and she'd have found the answer. Instead she reblogged CHILD FUCKING PORN, because she's been playing the professional victim for so long, it is instinct for her to try and be the victim.

What Anti-GamerGate people are doing is bullying those that would expose illegal and unethical behavior.



I can find more bullying from the Anti-GamerGate side if you want, Hellis. How about how several of Zoe's fellow SomethingAwful members and friends on that forum doxxed and threatened to murder a 13 year old boy and his family because he said that a comedian's job is to find a line, and then cross it.

How abut how Aaron Diaz, writer of Dresden Codak, who demands evidence, and then blocks people when they show him evidence.

Hellis, the Anti-GamerGate side is NOT in the right on this, they couldn't be more wrong.

Plus, Zoe is guilty of donor fraud. Claiming she's homeless and on the street one week tonget donations, then the next week claiming she's been sitting at her computer and reading the IRC logs of a GamerGate IRC for weeks, since day one.

Fuck, I hope what I posed made some sense. I'm fucking beat.

(PROTIP: Staying up till 3 PM is a bad idea if you work the night shift. Don't do it.)

To be fair doe, it /is/ the job of a comedian to go over the line. Not all the time though.

Darog the Badger God said
To be fair doe, it /is/ the job of a comedian to go over the line. Not all the time though.

I agree. But people thought that this was acceptable.

(Note, I don't have the full version where they go on to say how 'my knife is getting lonely' and 'nice family, would be tragic of something happened to them')

http://www.funnyjunk.com/reminder+SJWs+threatened+a+10+year+old/funny-pictures/5271754/

Couldn't link img. Fuuuck.

Hellis said
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/08/videogames-are-for-everybody/#more-232091This is probably the best formulated retort to the whole thing I've read so far.

You might want to read this, Hellis, RPS is really in no position to talk.



(Please forgive double post.)

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/08/videogames-are-for-everybody/#more-232091

This is probably the best formulated retort to the whole thing I've read so far.