Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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With superhumans, the acceleration time would be negligible. Likely a similar number to the crossing time. So double the crossing time and you've still only got 2 seconds+ at 100 feet.

Though to also point out something you neglected, human error. With humans not being able to fully resist the recoil, as well as their potential inaccuracy depending on stress level, technique, and training.

Also, you don't have to quote every time you reply to someone. It just makes the thread harder to scroll through.

Edit: Even further I've disproven the 'higher level' point already. Which is what I was trying to get across in the first place. These aren't even intermediate tier characters that are crossing this gap in such a short period of time. These are low tier characters.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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I remember a Giant. from OldGuild
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Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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Acceleration time is not negligible, ever. Every action has a time cost associated with it. Do not ever take that time for granted.

You cannot police human error in text combat without, as Melon said, using some kind of randomized system. Which then makes it come down to 'who gets the lucky roll'. Again, not a good way to establish balance for something such as this which is seeking to be competitive.

This also assumes the gun wielder has absolutely no enhancements either, which they often do 'in order to compete'. If they, as well, have increased reaction times, then that makes it even harder.

Guns are fine at a higher tier. They are not fine at the tier people often use them at. That is, and will remain, my position until someone can demonstrate some math I have overlooked or calculation I've done wrong.
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Negligible as in, it only doubles the time taken. It still only increases the amount by about 2 maybe 2.3x. This is still an impossibly short period of time. Human reaction speed is only so much.

And yeah, policing human error isn't easy. However, there's really no perfect way to establish balance in a written competitive environment.

If you totally balance it, it restricts the writing.
If you try to balance it, it restricts the characters.
If you let it go free, it restricts competition.

Edit: Guns are fine at low tier too! They're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon that only has a linear aim and narrow strike zone is limited, they're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon used by a normal person or even a superhuman is limited only to the abilities of the user.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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I remember a Giant. from OldGuild


Oh, wow, someone remembers me. I didn't post much. Hello again, Rilla.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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<Snipped quote by Rilla>

Oh, wow, someone remembers me. I didn't post much. Hello again, Rilla.


just gotta remember if you're him. I think he lived/worked in Columbia, or something.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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just gotta remember if you're him. I think he lived/worked in Columbia, or something.


That's me, still living (and studying) in Colombia.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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That's me, still living (and studying) in Colombia.


Giant! My friend! How ya been?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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Giant! My friend! How ya been?


Doing pretty well, my man. Got into University (law student), doing pretty well in grades, returned to writing albeit I have no time for anythiiiing at all.

How about you? Am I reading wrong or have you got a kid coming? Congratulations, if so!
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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Negligible as in, it only doubles the time taken. It still only increases the amount by about 2 maybe 2.3x. This is still an impossibly short period of time. Human reaction speed is only so much.

And yeah, policing human error isn't easy. However, there's really no perfect way to establish balance in a written competitive environment.

If you totally balance it, it restricts the writing.
If you try to balance it, it restricts the characters.
If you let it go free, it restricts competition.

Edit: Guns are fine at low tier too! They're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon that only has a linear aim and narrow strike zone is limited, they're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon used by a normal person or even a superhuman is limited only to the abilities of the user.


I've been incredibly successful at balancing the mechanics of items in many instances without restricting the writing at all or restricting characters.

Linear and narrow strike zone are not limiting factors at low tier when a singular, well placed shot can be lethal and can be actively pursued. This can be done in a singular post on any Arena that isn't specifically designed with countermeasures at appropriate distances to deal with such a character.

I do not establish balances based on the differences between writers. Assuming relatively equal skill, a particular weapon can be imbalanced in comparison to another.

So what we've established with me so far is that guns are fine assuming:
- The non gun wielding character has over 120 times the reaction speed of a normal human (I was being generous with the reaction times in favor of the non gun wielder in terms of requirement based on the complexity and required no actual stimulus).
- Is capable of accelerating over 2800 times faster than a sportscar (this was just to 60 mph which isn't fast enough to avoid the bullet from the calc I did)
- Is capable of moving at approximately 90 mph in order to dodge the bullet at a range of 10 feet with only a 2 inch required adjustment to avoid on a singular kill shot. I also did this calculation in favor of the powered melee/caster by doing the calculation on a dodge to the side. Any approaching momentum would reduce the time they had to deal with it an up the requirements.

You can get a touch more time by reacting to motions, but this also assumes the gun wielder has not augmentations of their own. However, the above would not be found on a low tier character AND the existence of a such a weapon actively restricts not only the viable combat options of others, but the places they much take place.

I understand no one has to fight a gun user, but please do not tell me that they are appropriate in lower tiers of combat. They are fine at higher tiers of power when there would be a wider range of acceptable powers that would not overwhelm others' powers capable of dealing with them. Otherwise they are overbearing and restricting to others.

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Doing pretty well, my man. Got into University (law student), doing pretty well in grades, returned to writing albeit I have no time for anythiiiing at all.

How about you? Am I reading wrong or have you got a kid coming? Congratulations, if so!


defense or prosecutor? lol

and you read right, I'm totally expecting a kid this Sunday, which is also WWE Payback night. WOOOOOOOT
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Click here.

Mythbusters did a similar test. At 500 feet, you would need to be able to react twice as fast as the record holder fastest human. Usain Bolt. At 100 feet, you would only need to be 10x as fast as the world record holder. Which is, guess what. Only about as fast as a sports car.

Not 2800x the speed of a sports car.

Because a human can accelerate their body almost instantly, where as a car can't.
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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Double posts, I thought these were fixed!
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
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<Snipped quote by Rilla>

I have been itching for a fight. Alright then.

@Skallagrim, since it's been so long, humour me. I challenge you to a demonstration duel. I have a modern day gun fighter and soldier, you use whoever you want.

I've read through the two pages worth of writing and I have to say it's an interesting debate, but I think the only to really settle this is in the arena.

So, Skall, I pit my Korean commando Cho Sun-Jin against whoever you choose. Maybe to figure out stuff, less a fight and more of a demonstration on this guns vs magic thing.

Also to shake off my rust. I have fought in forever. XD


Sure I'll fight you. Need time to get spells for my caster. Rilla judges. T1 eden era combat rules. Give me a day or so.
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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Did I just get drafted?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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Click here.

Mythbusters did a similar test. At 500 feet, you would need to be able to react twice as fast as the record holder fastest human. Usain Bolt. At 100 feet, you would only need to be 10x as fast as the world record holder. Which is, guess what. Only about as fast as a sports car.

Not 2800x the speed of a sports car.

Because a human can accelerate their body almost instantly, where as a car can't.


I did my calculations on the 10 feet number which I indicated.

There is still acceleration speed to the human body - it is not instant (9.8 m/s is what I found for a high acceleration). I only used the car for a note because you brought up their speed. It may not be the most equatable in terms of acceleration - I'd have to examine it further.

So you need 500 feet to dodge a bullet. Not many battles at low tier take place at that distance. Add in approaching speed and you make it even harder. You still have not demonstrated that this is reasonable at a low tier.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Giant
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defense or prosecutor? lol

and you read right, I'm totally expecting a kid this Sunday, which is also WWE Payback night. WOOOOOOOT


Then freakin' Congratulations! This kind of thing happens once in a lifetime! The memories of WWE will accompany you through the rest of your life.

Not even sure if I will be a criminal lawyer (although probably). And if so... gosh, I don't know, it's so hard and dependent on if I get employed by the State.

But I'll kick ass as whatever I am. Or at least try.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Then freakin' Congratulations! This kind of thing happens once in a lifetime! The memories of WWE will accompany you through the rest of your life.

Not even sure if I will be a criminal lawyer (although probably). And if so... gosh, I don't know, it's so hard and dependent on if I get employed by the State.

But I'll kick ass as whatever I am. Or at least try.


deffense. might need ya hahaha
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Innue
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I reexamined the acceleration calculation - it isn't 2800 times the acceleration of just the sports car. It is still a ridiculous factor though to accomplish the dodge in the time frame given.
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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I used the sports car as a frame of reference for movement speed, not acceleration speed. Human acceleration speed is wildly different from car because we're less than a 10th the weight, and a totally different shape. Wind and shit, come on man.

As well, we're still talking about low tier supers. We're not talking about normals. At twice the speed of Usain bolt, you could dodge a bullet at 500 feet.

At the tiers being presented here, low and lower end intermediate, dodging a bullet is not only a feasible feat, it's fairly easy for a balanced speed and strength character. Let's mark this down as someone who's speed class is exactly at the end of Low Tier, so he's being pushed into the lower Echelons of Intermediate because he has different stats.

He's got a movement speed of 300 mph, with an acceleration of around. . .Gimme a sec.

117.6 meters per second. Alternatively 263.06 mph.

There's your bare bones lower end intermediate Speedster, and the only thing barring him from low tier is a few mph over the limit, and a few other stats.

If I were to totally concoct a character to match the exact stats required to make guns wildly useless, they would still be a low tier.

Guns CAN be low tier.

Guns CAN be high tier.

It just depends on who's using it, and what the caliber is.
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