Our view of the average gun user: https://vimeo.com/91717678

This isn't a matter of opinion, this is a matter of:

Everyone understands the absurdity of superhuman abilities, even with numbers or lack of numbers behind them. And saying that guns are superior to Captain America x 5 characters because they have the potential to instantly kill them ruins the fun of it. Guns aren't high tier because nobody wants a fight to end instantly with a single gunshot.

It wasn't a problem before, because it was fun before.

I'd just like to point out:

Balance exists separately to having fun. Balance is necessary to prevent these "oneshot" situations from happening on a consistent and unavoidable basis, and the fun of combat certainly doesn't lie there (which I'm sure we can all agree on).

You are saying that Guns should not be a high tier because the user can choose to not kill someone instantly and that it wasn't a problem because you played for fun. When it comes to rankings and using points, do you genuinely think that some code of honour based on being fun will stop people from abusing inherently broken mechanics? The abuse is not always blatant, or sometimes intentional, but it exists because there is a legitimate disparity of power. That is the purpose of balance - to ensure that these disparities of power do not exist so that honourable combat can be undertaken with no risk of potentially abusable mechanics.

I agree with Innue on almost all of his points because we have been doing this sort of thing with one another for a long time and we both inherently belong to the same school of thought, and I am perhaps more inclined to agree with him than anyone else by association on certain topics. On this, however, I am being completely objective and free of bias:

This community is insular. It is so insular that challenging ideas are met with dismissal and "You do not have to play by our rules", rather than openly discussed and debated. It comes across as being a high school clique rather than a legitimate area of RP and that is a terrible shame because there are extremely creative and talented people here, and more people could join that community if it was not like it is.

You callin' me close minded, mate? I tell you wut, I'm so open minded that I don't even have a mind, ya feel me, bruhman? XD

The best thing to do for tournaments is to have some where you're expected to have them so if you don't then you can't complain about bringing a knife to a gunfight, and some tournaments where guns are banned outside of super bad ones like civil war muskets. For normal ranked battles if we are using non guns then don't accept challenges from guns without stipulations in place prohibiting things like one shots and allowing you to claim that they're missing on occasions where it's not obvious they wouldn't miss, meaning that even if your character has normal human reactions and speed, if they're a decent distance away and at least making an effort to dodge then the dodges can succeed, guns hitting once they have no options to dodge, requiring the gun user to play smart and get them in a trap in order to take full advantage of their gun.

We could all do a non ranked realistic gun battle to practice gun fighting tactics if we wanted to.

I think the last bit of that would cause more problems, could lead to be just 'rule of cool' dodging until they can't anymore.

I'm perfectly fine with guns, I don't face them often, and am more than okay treating them like I would a lightning bolt, or any other form of magic, and just dodging them when its logical, blocking them when its logical, or taking the hit when its logical.

The only way I'd ever regulate any guns is if we agreed to put them on the 'Powered Scale', even though at human levels, you can dodge them, provided you:

See the gun, meaning you know its a factor, thus your body is probably prepared for it

And are a good distance away. People waste shots more often than not, even when aiming.

I understand though, Gun Users wouldn't particularly want their shots seemingly slower than they are -realistically-, but that could be marked down to fantasy, and rectified when in a realistic match. That would also apply to Kusanagi, as anything less than 100 or so feet, is more or less auto hit if it shoots out at 500 FPS.

also, we do need to be more open to ideas and the like, so we can get thr attention of more potential fighters, to feed to your Arena Deity, Rilla the Conquerer aka President Rilla. So try to keep it more debate, and less argument. If you want to know how the other person is thinking, set up a practice round for about 10-15 posts, to test out the theories and whatnot. Learn from each other, and we'll all grow together. IE, kill each other so I can munch on your face.

On this, however, I am being completely objective and free of bias:

This community is insular. It is so insular that challenging ideas are met with dismissal and "You do not have to play by our rules", rather than openly discussed and debated. It comes across as being a high school clique rather than a legitimate area of RP and that is a terrible shame because there are extremely creative and talented people here, and more people could join that community if it was not like it is.

No your not, you're biased and true objectivity doesn't exist.

No it's not, you've just received more resistance because you've entered an established community that is normally welcome, thrown your 'RPing experience' in everyone's face in a condescending manner, and been way too free with your insults. (which is how you've managed to irritate me.)

Ultimately, your point is invalidated by the fact that I spent most of yesterday arguing against the established rule-set and debating on Innue's side. LeeRoy has his own beliefs on the system, he isn't any-more representative of the community than anyone else.

Short story short, your own behaviour is responsible for the reception you've received from Arena, as is true of everyone, and despite the arguments spurred up constantly I've seen two or three new people express interest in what is by all accounts a very niche part of RPing.

So. How's that?

Also, vote Rilla 2k15.

<Snipped quote by Tuujaimaa>

No your not, you're biased and true objectivity doesn't exist.

No it's not, you've just received more resistance because you've entered an established community that is normally welcome, thrown your 'RPing experience' in everyone's face in a condescending manner, and been way too free with your insults. (which is how you've managed to irritate me.)

Ultimately, your point is invalidated by the fact that I spent most of yesterday arguing against the established rule-set and debating on Innue's side. LeeRoy has his own beliefs on the system, he isn't any-more representative of the community than anyone else.

Short story short, your own behaviour is responsible for the reception you've received from Arena, as is true of everyone, and despite the arguments spurred up constantly I've seen two or three new people express interest in what is by all accounts a very niche part of RPing.

So. How's that?

Also, vote Rilla 2k15.

The funny thing here is I've just kinda watched all this play out and while I've been in and out of the Arena a lot, there did seem to be more arguing/fighting then actual debate and willingness to accept outside opinions.

I see some of your statements as accurate, and your irritation is warranted I'm sure, but responding out of irritation, at least in my experience (which is no better than anyone else's, before you try and jump on my case misguidedly) is not the best idea if you want any sort of constructive conversation that's helpful or useful to anyone.

I don't agree with the use of Insular as what amounts to an insult, but some of Tuuj's points do kind of have some merit. Not all, but some.

And I am not the guy who tends to agree with the words of Tuuj.

I'm a fairly abrasive person, and I am often far too quick to throw words around - in that you're correct. I'm sorry for having been offensive.

In this instance, I wasn't referring specifically to you. You have taken some of Innue's points on board and I laid you for at least having made the effort to try. It is something that a lot of people have not done.

I'm a fairly abrasive person, and I am often far too quick to throw words around - in that you're correct. I'm sorry for having been offensive.

In this instance, I wasn't referring specifically to you. You have taken some of Innue's points on board and I laid you for at least having made the effort to try. It is something that a lot of people have not done.

Fair enough, I too suffer from the same problem and it usually takes a while before people catch on to those sorts of nuances about a person and accept them. Any community has that early teething problem, the Arena being as small as it is probably leads to it being considered insular by some, but I would only argue that we know each other fairly well for the most part, so our arguments and debating seem unusual until you get used to them. I would never have it said that the majority of us don't try our utmost to encourage newcomers, but in anything competitive like this there is always the potential of pretty heated debates over regulations and rules, and change to systems that have worked fairly well for the past three years or so is hard for that reason.

Yoshua, I understand the point you're making sits somewhere between the two points of view, though don't get me wrong my response wasn't one out of irritation in this case, I was just pointing out how certain uses of language can cause irritation and have done in the past.

Yoshua, I understand the point you're making sits somewhere between the two points of view, though don't get me wrong my response wasn't one out of irritation in this case, I was just pointing out how certain uses of language can cause irritation and have done in the past.

Mmnk, just making sure. Not trying to be presumptuous or anything, was just trying to keep things chill haha.

For the most part the discussion was well done up until a certain point, which is where I did raise the point that it creates the perception of being insular - especially given past experiences where I came to ask questions and received a similar reaction.

I just want to try to ensure we avoid putting on that perception because we should be working to bring more into this area.

Should we have a debate thread? I jest. Hahaa.

Seriously, I think we can come to a viable conclusion about guns and how they work.

If nothing else, easily loaded guns perhaps, which we'd have to determine, could be considered Powered, and ones before that normal.

Explosives are fine, imo.

Speaking of new people, has anyone picked up the couple of people expressing interest? I think they both asked for an introduction of sorts.

Rilla, you're the Arena spokesperson with the shifty connections to moderators, sort it out mate.

http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/78452-arena-chat-thread/ooc?page=51#post-2646624

Hahahaha. Already talked to him

Well it looks like it has been a interesting day. I blame Rilla for all of this.

I'll take it, hahahaha.

DJ is making a change to his character to lift him from just human with a gun to enhanced human with a gun. I have no problems with it. I should have my spells picked for this fight and will open a thread and place Kolskegg there with them.

Im fishing for some interest checks, but the arena interest checks dont seem very active. Mind if I bug 'round here?

feel free, but Melonhead is a pro bug stomper, so hide the buggin'

I just wanted to get opinions on my community chest boss fighting arena idea. I made a forum in interest checks and was told that the interest cecks arent very active.