Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Impaqt
Raw
Avatar of Impaqt

Impaqt

Member Seen 8 yrs ago

@InnueI feel this kind of system would bring too much complexity to an otherwise simple game.
100 points per win is enough.
The only question is about the point gain for the losers.

<Snipped quote by ImportantNobody>This method could work.
The only problem is, like Rilla said, that people aren't anywhere that far apart that we can determine a limit. So this would effectively mean that, at least for the time being, we leave the system as it is.
I'm fine with the idea and really I have yet to gain any points but this effectively doesn't solve anything.

@ImpaqtYou may feel that's unfair for people to lose their 25 points but there's perhaps an even larger group who never benefited from it yet. If we make a change to the "rules" then it has to be done consistently. Neither those who made matches before or after the change should benefit in any way.
Taking away points these people got by losing may leave a sour taste in a few people's mouths but remember that points are technically a "reward" and as it goes such things only go to the winner.
That being said I also support ImportantNobody's idea, but of course I leave the decision about the details to more experienced players.


Reward or not, those fights were still established on the grounds that the winner would get so many points, and that the loser would get so many points. Honestly, other than that, the points aren't that so far apart that it makes a whole lot of difference if we changed it now anyways, and left the points intact. Besides, a person joining later in the year will still have a lot of catching up to do, regardless of loser points. And I don't really support giving new people more points to 'catch up'. That goes against the flow of this. Giving them points simply because they started later would undermine the hard work put in by someone else that worked bit by bit to get their points, only for some new person to come in and possibly sky-rocket up the list with minimal effort. I do support the idea of a reset on points every year with a possible reward for having the highest points at the end of that year, even if it's just being listed somewhere as the highest point earner for that year.

If you want the points, you should earn them. New or not. Back in my day, that was a challenge issued and a push for new people, not something to deter them away. All these reason are the same reason I support abolishing the 25 pt rule. The points should be earned. That still doesn't take away from the fact, that those matches were conducted under the 'old' rules and not under 'new' ones. That would be the same as inducting Melonhead (per say) into the a Hall of Fame, then years later decide that the rules we had then were stupid and because of that, Melonhead doesn't deserve to be there anymore. There will always be flaws, but even when we change the rule sets of battles, those previous battles still stand, driven by the old rule sets. The winner was the winner. The same applies here. The battles already done, and many of them currently going on were established under the specific pretense that 25 pts would be allowed to the loser, unless they decided to wage points effectively possibly forfeiting points. You have to realize, you wouldn't be just taking points from those that have earned points, but removing points from those that also lost points already due to wagers. And again, wagers made under the pretense that a 25 point earn would soften the blow of the possible points they were trying to earn, but lost.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
Raw
Avatar of Willy Vereb

Willy Vereb The Wordy Engineer

Member Seen 5 days ago

@InnueThere aren't any problem with doing a little math. Hell, it's only a degree more difficult than adding or subtracting values.
The problem is with the indications.
Fixed point gains give us a nice and predictable system. Yours would be almost like a mess in this aspect.
It'd introduce complex strategies which may not discriminate against new players but in return would pretty much bane players who participated in more matches in the beginning. They'll be around the top and earn meager point amounts while a "newb" can technically catch up to them in two matches at worst.
It may keep motivating people but I strongly feel you haven't thought about the full implications of this system.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
Raw
Avatar of Innue

Innue Sheep God

Member Seen 4 yrs ago

@InnueThere aren't any problem with doing a little math. Hell, it's only a degree more difficult than adding or subtracting values.
The problem is with the indications.
Fixed point gains give us a nice and predictable system. Yours would be almost like a mess in this aspect.
It'd introduce complex strategies which may not discriminate against new players but in return would pretty much bane players who participated in more matches in the beginning. They'll be around the top and earn meager point amounts while a "newb" can technically catch up to them in two matches at worst.
It may keep motivating people but I strongly feel you haven't thought about the full implications of this system.


Then you aren't creating a system necessarily indicative of any skill. You are creating a 'who has fought the most with a semi-decent winrate' system. You need a system with some kind of scaling or tethering. It really isn't an option.

There are no complex strategies to be executed. The only people that could 'game' the system would be the lower ranked people who could pick fights with much higher ranked individuals for large point gains (which is precisely how it is designed to work). However, since they aren't expected to win those matches, then it shouldn't be a concern.

I've used a system with variable points gains for almost a decade for my own stuff with great success. I'm not suggesting it out of a lack of thought or lack of experience. I know it works.

EDIT: Additional rules may be needed in terms of ability to accept/decline matches, but that is a separate discussion to the actual points.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
Raw
Avatar of LeeRoy

LeeRoy LeeRoy Brightmane

Member Seen 26 days ago

I'm starting to feel as though the ranking system was the biggest mistake to come to the arena after math.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Crazy Scion
Raw
Avatar of Crazy Scion

Crazy Scion Luck is a Lie

Member Seen 4 mos ago

It seemed like a rather fun idea, and I mean there are many games with leader boards that manage to function well. Surely there is something that can be worked out.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

The rankings are fine. I think the issue, however, is everyone has a different idea on how the points should be distributed. Some are against the points for losing, and some aren't.

After talking with Skallagrim, and reading what's here. I'm thinking this may be the best course.

Gain of 10% of losers total. Losers lose nothing in the exchange, but gain potentially valuable experience for their next fight.

We'll keep the current point standings, and to calculate 10%, we can round up/down(103, for say 1025), you get the idea.

End of the year, we'll reset the points to start a new season.

Skallagrim proposed a off season of 2 months; that'll disrupt the tournaments, I imagine, but we can find a work around for that.

I'm also thinking that maybe you have to fight through the whole roster, to ensure everyone gets to fight everyone, instead of just the same people over and over again; as well as preventing people from fighting less capable fighters to pad the points.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Innue
Raw
Avatar of Innue

Innue Sheep God

Member Seen 4 yrs ago

I still think that overly favors quantity of fights.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Impaqt
Raw
Avatar of Impaqt

Impaqt

Member Seen 8 yrs ago

I still think that overly favors quantity of fights.


And I still think that's a good thing. We want more fights, not less.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

In part, maybe. But you can have 10 fights; and if you win none of them, you are still at 1000, and 10 people, potentially, have 1100 now. So, no matter how many fights you'd get in, you still have to /win/ them.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
Raw

Vordak

Member Seen 6 mos ago

Maybe we will just base the leaderboard on a win/loss ratio?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

As what, percents? Or flat out wins.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
Raw

Vordak

Member Seen 6 mos ago

As what, percents? Or flat out wins.


Percents of course. Maybe it would be something like [6 wins to 2 losses = 300%], [4 wins to 5 losses = 80%].
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

Percents of course. Maybe it would be something like [6 wins to 2 losses = 300%].


Usually, the best way to do that, is 6/8(6 wins out of 8 fights); 3/4= 75%
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
Raw

Vordak

Member Seen 6 mos ago

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

Usually, the best way to do that, is 6/8(6 wins out of 8 fights); 3/4= 75%


Oh, that certainly works much better. I dun goofed.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

Oh, that certainly works much better. I dun goofed.


The inherent problem with that, and the solution as it were;

Problem: If you win one fight, you're at 100 percent. All you really have to do is hope everyone else loses at least once, and you're good.

Solution, which in hindsight, doesn't fix the problem: Move them up and down the ladder based off 100% + how many wins you have. Still, you lose once, and you're down below Mr. One Win Shawty
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
Raw

Vordak

Member Seen 6 mos ago

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

The inherent problem with that, and the solution as it were;

Problem: If you win one fight, you're at 100 percent. All you really have to do is hope everyone else loses at least once, and you're good.

Solution, which in hindsight, doesn't fix the problem: Move them up and down the ladder based off 100% + how many wins you have. Still, you lose once, and you're down below Mr. One Win Shawty


Mr. One Win Shawty shall be sent to the One win purgatory. >:(((
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

I got one win.

No more fights. All mine are called off.

#100%
#Winner
#SomeoneBeatMelon
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
Raw
Avatar of Skallagrim

Skallagrim Walker between Worlds

Member Seen 3 yrs ago

Can't please everyone. I agree that to participate in the ranks you should fight. Not lurking about but actually fighting.

Fighting everyone once would be ideal but probably will be hard to do. Unless we do divsions where you face everyone in your group. But if that proved unpopular having to fight at least 3 ranked matches works, not including any tournies.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by MelonHead
Raw
Avatar of MelonHead

MelonHead The Fighting Fruit

Member Seen 4 yrs ago

I got one win.

No more fights. All mine are called off.

#100%
#Winner
#SomeoneBeatMelon


#Nevergonnahappen
#VoteMelon2015k
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
Raw
GM
Avatar of Rilla

Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

Member Seen 4 mos ago

Hit out on Melon

#200PointBounty!

↑ Top
© 2007-2024
BBCode Cheatsheet