@Aro Let the GMs deal with this mate (I personally like the armor actually) Besides, it's not like he's ONLY weak to cold temperatures you know? It's not like he's otherwise immortal. Every character here can be defeated by default via overpowering them through their own character's abilities. Some characters may be more of an advantage to some compared to others, but still depends on the character.

@Aro is my only connection to the outside world when I'm stuck at work. He's agreed to be another Co-GM so I've got one for the villains as well as the heroes.

@Double My main concerns with the suit was the lack of weaknesses as well. With the Predator you had more skin exposed, he could still be cut and shot, etc. The powers of the suit are fine, its the lack of weaknesses that needs to be addressed. Bright lights was a nice suggestion [IDK if that effects snakes or reptiles though], if he can still be subdued by magic or telepathic attacks that should be noted if he doesn't have standard humanoid weaknesses, etc.

@Carlsberg She's still accepted, go 'head and post her in the character tab.

I'll give Aro his ribbon now. Again, now we've got a Co-GM for the heroes [Lmpkio] and one for the villains [Aro] so if I'm not around questions should be directed at them but final say is still mine. If I'm not around for any extended period of time I'll figure something out. @Lmpkio will help me with the sandbox villains, and @Aro will presumably help with sandbox heroes to use as fodder.

~KL~

@The Kid Lantern

Woohoo, Thank you!

posted!

@The Kid Lantern So you want a laundry list of what he can and can't do? Even though you said the exact opposite to Archmage MC? Either you want in-depth abilities or not, dude, you can't have it both ways. Make up your mind.

@The Kid Lantern So you want a laundry list of what he can and can't do? Even though you said the exact opposite to Archmage MC? Either you want in-depth abilities or not, dude, you can't have it both ways. Make up your mind.

I think your character is pretty straight forward. I don't know why there is much of an issue with it.

If it is a list of 30 abilities and power sub-sets then no, I don't want that. However you do need more than one weakness listed. That should go without saying. I don't want it both ways, and I never said he was over powered. Just that he needs to have established weaknesses. "Standard human weaknesses" covers a lot, but if he doesn't have them then it needs more clarification. That is all.

EDIT: And with the cartoon character, since @Double brought it up, none of his weaknesses seemed to matter since his toon regeneration would just undo anything done in no time. I'm not saying this Star Force officer is a god, he just needs more definition in the weaknesses department.

~KL~

If it is a list of 30 abilities and power sub-sets then no, I don't want that. However you do need more than one weakness listed. That should go without saying. I don't want it both ways, and I never said he was over powered. Just that he needs to have established weaknesses. "Standard human weaknesses" covers a lot, but if he doesn't have them then it needs more clarification. That is all.

~KL~

A creature with tough, scaly skin isn't going to have "standard human weaknesses". And seriously, you think being vulnerable to extreme cold isn't enough? You do know that the vast majority of space (you know, the place he primarily operates in and travels through) is a COLD vacuum? I mean, for fuck's sake he'd have a hard time fighting against any given ice villain because they'd only need a single good blast of cold to potentially cripple him. How is that not "an established weakness"? If Martian Manhunter can get by only being weak to fire, then I see no reason why an alien with only a weakness to cold can't also work.

<Snipped quote by The Kid Lantern>

A creature with tough, scaly skin isn't going to have "standard human weaknesses". And seriously, you think being vulnerable to extreme cold isn't enough? You do know that the vast majority of space (you know, the place he primarily operates in and travels through) is a COLD vacuum? I mean, for fuck's sake he'd have a hard time fighting against any given ice villain because they'd only need a single good blast of cold to potentially cripple him. How is that not "an established weakness"? If Martian Manhunter can get by only being weak to fire, then I see no reason why an alien with only a weakness to cold can't also work.

Martian Manhunter is one of the most OP'ed characters in comics, and I'd never accept that sort of nonsense in an RP. Being vulnerable in the vacuum of space is also a moot point if you're by the beach closing in on the summertime in New Athens. If he ONLY has a hard time fighting ice powered villains then there's a problem. I don't think it's asking much that he has more than one weakness, and if he's a big buff lizard and can take small or heavy arms fire even without his armor... then he definitely needs more weaknesses. You said it was inspired by the Predator, but even the Predator had more weaknesses than this guy. And even Predators are scaly buff aliens...

~KL~

@The Kid Lantern What is it with you people and mentioning all these Earth locations. Has it not occurred to any of you that he's a SPACE COP? Space. Cop. I doubt he'll come within a thousand lightyears of Earth for any reason that isn't galactic civil war or something. Earth isn't the only planet that has to matter in a superhero universe you know. So why exactly does my SPACE ALIEN COP who operates on ALIEN PLANETS THAT ARE NOT EARTH absolutely need to have a bunch of weaknesses to shit that only really matters if he visits Earth? The armor is not that strong, honestly it's not much better than Stormtrooper Armor, and news flash, it can be damaged by enemy weapons if hit enough times. And once it's damaged enough? That "basic" environmental protection goes bye bye, so feel free to fuck him over with a Cold Gun or by ejecting him out into space at that point.

Honestly, people are gonna give me this much shit over this, then it's not worth continuing. Sorry I wasted your time.

@Double The majority of the RP will be set in New Athens. Nearly everyone in the cast has standard human weaknesses, and those who don't [Chok-Lad, Sea Snake, and Radiance] have pretty big weaknesses that can completely take them out of the game or gradually reduce their power over time. If you can't be bothered to make a single edit to the sheet even though I think my concerns are pretty valid, then I'm sorry you feel like your time was wasted. Vary rarely are CS's perfect the first draft. Making your guy have something like sensitive vision is really a deal breaker? Because if he's on Earth and can take anything anybody dishes out that doesn't involve ice or breaking his space suit and sending him back into space... then he needs SOMETHING.

Upon further inspection of everyone's weaknesses I see I need to clarify how quickly Ark's powers fade. If he can bench four to five tons and be durable enough to withstand small arms fire at first, I'd say by hour two his strength will have decreased to two tons max lift and the immunity to small arms fire would be out the window. Like a fish, the longer he's out of water the more trouble he's in.

However, @Carlsberg does your girl not have standard human weaknesses with the force/tk field? Is it always up even when she's asleep?

~KL~

@The Kid Lantern What is it with you people and mentioning all these Earth locations. Has it not occurred to any of you that he's a SPACE COP? Space. Cop. I doubt he'll come within a thousand lightyears of Earth for any reason that isn't galactic civil war or something. Earth isn't the only planet that has to matter in a superhero universe you know. So why exactly does my SPACE ALIEN COP who operates on ALIEN PLANETS THAT ARE NOT EARTH absolutely need to have a bunch of weaknesses to shit that only really matters if he visits Earth? The armor is not that strong, honestly it's not much better than Stormtrooper Armor, and news flash, it can be damaged by enemy weapons if hit enough times. And once it's damaged enough? That "basic" environmental protection goes bye bye, so feel free to fuck him over with a Cold Gun or by ejecting him out into space at that point.

Honestly, people are gonna give me this much shit over this, then it's not worth continuing. Sorry I wasted your time.

Mary-Sues are considered bad for a reason. The less weaknesses a character has, the lazier the writers can be, and the more boring the story becomes. I could write a two-page list of everything wrong with my hero, and every way she could be killed. Not because I don't want her to win, but because it makes for a deeper character, with more subtleties in the story. Think of the movie 'Predator'. Arnold injures and confuses the Predator in about a dozen different ways, which makes for a much better story/fight, than just "nothing.... nothing.... nothing..... OH, this one specific thing suddenly kills him."

I advise you to challenge yourself as a writer, by making a flawed, weak character. Explore the potential implications.

Or don't, if that's your inclination. Just something to consider.

@Double The majority of the RP will be set in New Athens. Nearly everyone in the cast has standard human weaknesses, and those who don't [Chok-Lad, Sea Snake, and Radiance] have pretty big weaknesses that can completely take them out of the game or gradually reduce their power over time. If you can't be bothered to make a single edit to the sheet even though I think my concerns are pretty valid, then I'm sorry you feel like your time was wasted. Vary rarely are CS's perfect the first draft. Making your guy have something like sensitive vision is really a deal breaker? Because if he's on Earth and can take anything anybody dishes out that doesn't involve ice or breaking his space suit and sending him back into space... then he needs SOMETHING.

Whoa, hold the phone. You're making the RP take place in a single location, despite advertising it as a UNIVERSE BUILDING endeavor? You fucking liar. No seriously, why the hell would you want aliens and other big universe concepts if YOU'RE NOT EVEN GONNA FUCKING USE THEM? And no, the single edit wasn't the deal breaker. The deal breaker was you constantly assuming that he's some unstoppable God simply because he doesn't have a million crippling weaknesses. Do you even know me? Because I thought you kind of did, have I ever been the kind of player to just blatantly power play like that, like have you EVER known me to do that? I'm beginning to think that you don't actually know what the term "overpowered" really means. Overpowered means having dozens of powers and secondary powers while only having one or two weaknesses (eg Superman). Zandar is not that powerful, like at all. He has some strength (not even super strength, he's just a bit stronger than your average humanoid would be) and scaly skin that makes him a bit tougher to hurt (not even that much tougher since it's really no different than Killer-fucking-Croc). That's all he actually has, those are his only natural abilities. So, with so little in the way of natural abilities why the fuck should I have to give him so many crippling natural weaknesses? The suit? The Lancer? The ship? That's all outside tech from Star Force. Those are all objects that can be stolen, hacked, damaged, and otherwise used by someone else if they got their hands on them. Isn't that in and of itself a pretty self-explanatory weakness? Hell, the uniform isn't even powerful at all, it's a glorified spacesuit, not the fucking Iron Man armor! But sure, let's just call your concerns valid, why not. It's not like you already have characters who are insanely stronger than Zandar is and who could kill him simply enough... OH WAIT!

On a side note: Why don't we make a power ranking list, so we have a good idea of where everyone's at.

For example, something like:

1. Sea Snake
2. Chok-Lad
3. Radience
4. The Ghoul
5. Paul Bunyan
6. Dissonance
7. Sentinel
8. Soldier of Fortune
9. Yellow Jacket
10. Marionette
11. Gunrat
12. Polaris
13. Reaper
14. Gilgamesh Sinn

Does that seem right?

Edit: Or does this seem like something that could just lead to more arguments?...

Wait. What.

Oh my god you guys... @Double's character was fine. He's a sci-fi lizard from space who uses guns and spacecraft. Nothing abnormal other than he is a lizard. Like really standard idea. I don't know how it is being interpreted as being "not enough weakness" part. He is in essence a standard humanoid.

Edit: Or does this seem like something that could just lead to more arguments?...

Uh, I'd suggest not doing that.

I advise you to challenge yourself as a writer, by making a flawed, weak character. Explore the potential implications.

Wait. Stop. He doesn't have to "challenge" himself. He wrote a perfectly fine character. People are just reading too much into it. I knew exactly what to expect when I read his character. It'd be different he was writing poorly in the IC but he never got that chance because he was "one weakness too short".

@The Kid Lantern

What exactly do you mean by standard human weaknesses?

<Snipped quote by Jotunn Draugr>

Wait. Stop. He doesn't have to "challenge" himself. He wrote a perfectly fine character. People are just reading too much into it. I knew exactly what to expect when I read his character. It'd be different he was writing poorly in the IC but he never got that chance because he was "one weakness too short".

Alright, pardon me. I was under the impression this was turning into a superman-kryptonite situation. If not, never mind.

This seems like a silly thing to argue about guys. Both sides need to rethink some things. The character does seem fine to me, but it could use some more reasons why its weak in other areas. At least one more, like KL suggested, adding magic weaknesses or something. However, I was also under the impression that since this is an open world game that it would make use of multiple places, not just New Athens.

I apologize for my tone and anger in general. Some real life frustrations are bleeding into how I interact here and that's not fair to you guys. So again, I apologize profusely, and beg forgiveness for any of the vulgar or venomous things I've said.