Before I say anything, I'd like to make a point that resorting to brainless internet taunts like "weeaboo" is pretty much a guaranteed way to make me immediately not even take anything you say seriously, period. The only obvious exception to this would be if someone was behaving this way in an attempt to try and make me not take them seriously when I should (yes, I'd be able to see through that), which certainly isn't the case here. It's also rather hypocritical to call someone a "weeaboo" when you exhibit some of the traits of one yourself (liking anime, for example).

So with that in mind, you'll forgive me if I've decided not to even bother wasting my time catching up on the entire discussion in this thread; it's already beneath me on that one word alone. I've been thinking about putting up a post in this thread at some point specifically related to this sort of immature name calling bullshit and get it off my chest... you know, actually use this thread for what it's meant to be used for instead of flame wars, hmm...? Just sayin'...

I find it annoying when people do this without even attempting to discuss reasonably.

tu quoque
You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

Honestly, this happens all the time, whether it be online or offline... A lot of people are just shit debaters, and by shit debaters I mean immature debaters. Answering criticism with criticism is one way that people are shit debaters, but calling people names or just being directly offensive or aggressive towards the person themselves (think bully with a small package bad upbringing talking down to other kids to feel superior), instead of the argument and points in question, is another way. By the way, so is tossing up pointless gifs in the midst of posts due to lacking anything insightful to actually contribute to the discussion (they're fine sometimes, even if I have no taste for a lot of them, but frequently they're just crude and juvenile attempts to give substance to an argument that has none; sort of like an animal that has no debating skills to begin with and relies on savagery), and the exact same thing applies to people tossing out memes like "edgy" or "triggered" (amongst other labels that idiots like to use, such as "self-righteous" or "preachy"). A lot of people need to learn how to show some class.

Shit... after reading that entire debate I realize coming here to talk about door to door salesman being annoying pales in comparison now.

You're telling me... Last time I came here, the most recent posts I saw involved a healthy and normal bit of ranting about how people who throw second-hand smoke in other people's faces are jackasses (I more or less don't see what's the difference between doing that to people and slowly putting a knife into them), and then me giving a bit of social commentary about some flaws in the education and workforce systems, and how society has been degenerated by them (and by other things too)...

I come back to this thread, and now this nonsense again...?

I've got a deep understanding of psychology and the human condition myself, so in this regard you and I are quite similar, @The Architect. We're also similar in the sense that, thanks to my rather heavy-handed philosophy and a general tendency to really be forthright with people (we all know how much all the anonymous cowards hiding behind their masks hate someone who's forthright in this era, don't we), I usually end up becoming an instigator of conflict everywhere I go due to most people's overarching inability to debate with some manner of intelligence. The fact that I don't give the slightest shit what other people think and will not be talked down to by anyone doesn't help the matter (we all know how much people love men who are doormats in this era, after all). Due to all of this, I usually avoid a debate entirely unless I think the other side is actually intelligent enough to put my time into.

That being said, I'm already facepalming just looking at the condition of this thread since I last showed up here, so I don't plan to get involved in this train wreck. This sort of flame war is precisely the reason why people on the internet get so much bad reputation as being a bunch of assholes with no lives. While I find a good debate very engaging, both to watch and to take part in myself, there's already several elements about this discussion that make it clear that the term "good debate" doesn't belong here. I think some of the people in this thread need to do themselves a favour and go post up a flame war thread in the spam forum. This is supposed to be a place where people can discuss their annoyances... not get into toxic cat fights with each other, m'kay?

While @tsukune mentioned he's just here to watch the drama (and that's all this is, since it devolved below the classification of a debate a long time ago from what I can tell), I don't even want to waste my time looking at that drama. I'm only here looking at this thread again because he mentioned it to me over Skype, but now that I've actually taken a look I'm worried I'll actually start getting stupider if I keep reading this drivel. There's a good reason I think "trolls" need to get a life.

So, for everyone who actually decided to read my entire post (as I mentioned in a previous post of mine in this thread, there's far too many role-players who don't like reading walls of text when you take into account that this is a fucking writing-focused website), allow me to summarize my post... My personal gripe to add into the thread for today...? This type of garbage going on right now.

@Fabricant451 Honorverse books.

Yo I love me some Honorverse, that's some good sci-fi right there.

Now SNL gotta do a cold-open about THIS debate!

I really fucking hate the condensation bubbles that form at the top of a partially drunk water bottle. Swear to God, every damn time I see them I just have to snatch up that ridged, plastic cylinder of existential horror and shake it up with a violent fury that can only be measured in equivalence to John Cusack going without his drink.

Fuck you Poland Springs.

While @tsukune mentioned he's just here to watch the drama (and that's all this is, since it devolved below the classification of a debate a long time ago from what I can tell), I don't even want to waste my time looking at that drama. I'm only here looking at this thread again because he mentioned it to me over Skype, but now that I've actually taken a look I'm worried I'll actually start getting stupider if I keep reading this drivel. There's a good reason I think trolls need to get a life.

That gif was intended as sarcasm - which, apparently everybody got the joke, except for one. *shrugs* In all seriousness, it's exactly as @Eklispe and @Shoryu Magami have said, that the discussion so far has gone from a debate to just drama where one side of the argument refuses to acknowledge the other, as seen by the numerous times @Fabricant451 has to repeat herself over and over again.

Oh, yes. You are free to offer your authoritative input on gay issues being a straight person, but when an actual gay person steps in to offer their input - it's drama and trolling that only exists for your own amusement.

Your fingers cramped up rather quickly, but you feel free to sit on that high horse in this situation. If you wanted to butt out, then why not just butt out? Instead here you are, fanning the flames. You realize that's the literal definition of a troll, right? Did I give you the attention that you wanted? Satisfied? By the way, you're a fucking weeaboo, mate. Sad but true.

Here, have a pillow.

Well, how can I not be amused when this quote is pretty much saying how you're portraying yourself to me, or even to the rest who have seen what's going on here? Since you bothered to check my bio page still made those wild assumptions about me when you don't know me as much as I don't know you at all (this is the internet, duh), how do you expect me or anyone else to bother to take you seriously?

Before I say anything, I'd like to make a point that resorting to brainless internet taunts like "weeaboo" is pretty much a guaranteed way to make me immediately not even take anything you say seriously, period.

Exactly. You don't demand respect from people. You have to earn that from others first. Resorting to classless insults as this only serves to turn the whole world against yourself. You can complain about how much this world sucks to you, but the world owes you absolutely nothing. You can choose to live your life in self-torment, or you can try to find a balance between preserving your pride and beliefs while being able to co-exist with others in a respectful (or at the very least, tolerable) way. There are better ways to convince people to put themselves in your shoes to see your world in a better light than all the immature taunting you've been doing.

Oh yeah, calling me a weeaboo and then issuing a challenge to show that you have "better taste in anime" than me? Can I return that term you don't even know how to use properly back to you in whole? You even put a picture from an anime that is explicitly mentioned in my profile along with the challenge... Well, that kind of sarcasm just lost its charm with such a blunter, hmm?

Also, since you crave for my attention for you when that gif was only intended for @Eklispe and you have to butt in instead, I'll just be direct that it's as @Mr Allen J has said: you didn't even bother to read carefully and understand the context and audience my post was for about homosexual characters in RP. Why would I want to waste my time to argue with the likes of you when you don't even read whatever my post was about - or anyone else's for the matter, as seen in your drama with Fabricant - objectively, simply flying off the handle to call people names and "fight criticism with criticism", as Eklipse has said? I'm more inclined to agree with Fabricant that you're a troll who has the cheek to call other people a troll. Hypocrite much?

Oh, I don't mind having a free pillow like that. I don't sleep with lights on, so it's too dark for me to care whatever picture is on the pillow anyway. As long as it's comfortable, who cares? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Alright folks, let's just remember that when having a debate you criticise the idea and not the person. If you criticise it the person then it just turns into an argument and we're not savages like that.

Now at the minute I don't have time to crawl through each post so this is a general reminder.

I'll review what's been said individually a touch later and then deal with individuals at that time.

This thread has had a tenuous grip to life over its time, don't be the idiot that makes it get closed.

Well I sure hope it’s a type of apple I enjoy, heh. But no, it wasn’t Tsukune— I informed the moderation staff of the situation because the toxicity as well as the lack of class and civility made me make a judgement call; and not simply because of some mean words “triggered” me. Your rhetoric is what made me inform them and I’m not afraid to publicly say that. Whatever approach and conclusion the moderation staff comes to make is on them and I support them 100% but we should remember the forerunning rule of the site is to act appropriately and with a sense of tact.

Not quite being “fonz cool” by my definition.

But it’s whatever, if that doesn’t fit your framework I’m still going to stand up for my justifications and ethical ideology.

It's probably a bad time to mention this but since it's pretty much fizzled out and all, sorry for derailing the thread, ya'll. It weren't cool of me to do. Sometimes I just gotta know when to not say stuff. Age doesn't equal maturity, clearly. Sorry, sorry, you may now return to regularly scheduled bitchfesting.

Taking responsibility for your actions; check. Not afraid to let people know it was you; check.

Honestly, I actually had a feeling it was probably you, @Gowi, but I still like that you came out and said it. I was pretty much about ready to contact them myself before I saw one of them show up and take control of the situation, and my post was my own attempt to bring this nonsense to a close (doing the best I could without mod powers).

I've run plenty of role-playing forums of my own in the past, so I know how to deal with these sort of situations, but you made the right call since the painfully mindless types will never actually get the message until someone with the authority to ban them shows up. The fact that the parties that should've been reading my post never even acknowledged it sort of shows that.

To be completely frank with everyone here, if you've got nothing to be ashamed of or hide then the staff reviewing this thread shouldn't bother you; I know I don't regret anything I've said. This thread seems like a helpful place for people to relieve unwanted stress and perhaps get some empathy from their fellow role-players; we don't need idiots ruining that.

Free speech? Because what is that even? Thanks for wasting everyone's time, asshole.

Contrary to popular belief, you actually do not have that on message boards nor does freedom of expression mean freedom of saying things without consequences.

Contrary to popular belief, you actually do not have that on message boards nor does freedom of expression mean freedom of saying things without consequences.

Heh, not that I expect these kinds of people (those whose only counterargument to something they don't like is to post up tasteless gifs or links to videos) to bother reading something with substance, but I think this is an example of what you were aiming at with that comment.

I'm all for freedom of speech myself; in fact my forthright nature and general dignity means I refuse to allow myself to be supressed by anyone, but I firmly believe that freedoms only truly belong in the hands of those mature enough to take responsibility for them; you don't have rights to speak your mind, you earn them. Laws exist for those who aren't mature enough to possess a self-enforced code of conduct (think how children don't have certain rights compared to adults; in my eyes the same applies for mental maturity, not just physical); those who lack the wisdom to do good of their own volition. Whether they live under the laws of others or choose to defy them, those who lack this wisdom are shackled to their base instincts and inner demons just like animals; they have no real freedom.

I'm the type who refuses to allow myself to be controlled by others, so I take responsibility for the power of my will.

Like I said already, we don't need morons ruining a thread that can allow people to vent their frustrations and get some empathy from fellow role-players (or at least get some empathy from the fellow role-players who actually possess the wisdom and mental aptitude to be capable of empathy; I know there's plenty of superficial people here who fail to realize role-playing is a hobby driven by community and that other people are not merely tools for the role-player's escapism or shallow-minded amusement).

@Apokalipse

Maybe research context before you post? I do know the person. I know you too. I know that you left me high a dry for more than a month on a public role-playing thread and then ended up leaving the thread with little to no notice - forcing me to quit the thread also. (The whole RP ended up dead, btw. Also, you're a GM now. How's that going?) You're really not one to talk when it comes etiquette. (Insert auto-correct fail.) Context is everything. That's why you usually get bitten in the butt and look silly when you jump into other people's conversations without it. I'm still not impressed with that, by the way. Dunce.

Well, I'm sorry but I had to leave without notice because I was so sick i was in the hospital. I wasn’t aware that my singular absence would cause the entire roleplay to crash! I'm so sorry, if only I wasn't sick. :/ and GMing is going amazing by the way, thank you for asking! We have big plans to actually transform it to something completely new in a possible standalone forum for me and my friends, so I've been really focused on that (^:

@Tulpa

It's not wasted time seeing to community concerns, that's just part of the job.

Shit... after reading that entire debate derpbate I realize coming here to talk about door to door salesman being annoying pales in comparison now.

You're fucked, J. But I corrected your spelling, because I'm a tedious pedant like that. :)

[insert bitching here about spelling]