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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Personally I'm not too keen on the idea of guns being widespread.
Depends on how widespead, really.
I mean it's a fact that the "knight in shining armor" image and the growing armies of gunmen were actually developed in parallel in history. The idea that guns destroyed "pure medieval style combat" is a big hogwash and actually it wasn't till the 17th century in Europe when the heavy cavalry started to go out of favor.
The kind of gunman that could render armor almost irrelevant was the musketeer, the original one. They were large physically fit men carrying oversized firearms firing bullets with diameters you nowadays see for light cannons. They were paid double for their services.

<Snipped quote by ethanjory>

I could go with this, but IMHO, once firearms enter an rp, many 'fantasy' technologies are irrelevant. Aside from magic, guns cancel out swords and bows. Even in the early stages, hence why we use guns today instead of bows.
British disagree with you. They kept archers on ships up till the late 17th century or so?
Make no mistake guns were a phenomenon of the era which brought many changes over the time. They did have their quite significant advantages. But in the end both were weapons that could kill a man and what really led to the end of the longbow era that Britain ran out of the wood used for them and men training from birth to be longbowmen grew scarce.

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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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<Snipped quote by Darkspleen>

Neat-o; I can't wait to see who I have for a neighbour.


Mix Mongolians, pre-Islamic Persia, and some aspects of the Norse religion and that's what you'll get.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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I also talk about guns a bit because I probably end up making this world's equivalent to Black Army of Hungary. A mid to late 15th century army which had about 25% of their soldiers carrying guns.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Tortoise
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It's still gonna be a while before the conjoined map is finished, but rest assured that it's coming.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Monkeypants
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<Snipped quote by Darkspleen>Depends on how widespead, really.
I mean it's a fact that the "knight in shining armor" image and the growing armies of gunmen were actually developed in parallel in history. The idea that guns destroyed "pure medieval style combat" is a big hogwash and actually it wasn't till the 17th century in Europe when the heavy cavalry started to go out of favor.
The kind of gunman that could render armor almost irrelevant was the musketeer, the original one. They were large physically fit men carrying oversized firearms firing bullets with diameters you nowadays see for light cannons. They were paid double for their services.

<Snipped quote by Monkeypants>British disagree with you. They kept archers on ships up till the late 17th century or so?
Make no mistake guns were a phenomenon of the era which brought many changes over the time. They did have their quite significant advantages. But in the end both were weapons that could kill a man and what really led to the end of the longbow era that Britain ran out of the wood used for them and men training from birth to be longbowmen grew scarce.


I take it you do not rp very much. Most medieval nrps that are created works until guns are introduced. I've rarely seen an nrp survive past the first page or two that uses guns. It always ends in dick measuring and a lack of balance. And you'll have those "gun experts" that will start speeling on about details, I got wheel locks first or some shit.

I rarely see arguments over swords or bows, hell even crossbows.

And my point still stands, guns cancel out bows and swords.

I'll still stay if the GM decides we use guns and I wont argue it further.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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The only thing guns destroyed were castles and that's only for them to return with vengeance in the 16th century. Seriously, instead of eliminating sieges it's statistical fact that in areas where star forts and other advanced fortifications were made all warfare was nothing but a huge list of sieges.

EDIT: Dude, I have more posts than you and joined earlier than you. I almost exclusively only posted in the NRP section. Me not participating in enough RPs, really? You just had a few bad games and try to generalize it, that's all.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by TheSovereignGrave
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I feel like this should just be dropped until the GM pops into give his final say, that way the argument doesn't end badly.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Tortoise
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I feel like this should just be dropped until the GM pops into give his final say, that way the argument doesn't end badly.


Because it only matters what the GM will say. This argument is literally accomplishing nothing: everyone will just keep trying to justify their opinions and never convincing the others of anything.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Monkeypants
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The only thing guns destroyed were castles and that's only for them to return with vengeance in the 16th century. Seriously, instead of eliminating sieges it's statistical fact that in areas where star forts and other advanced fortifications were made all warfare was nothing but a huge list of sieges.

EDIT: Dude, I have more posts than you and joined earlier than you. I almost exclusively only posted in the NRP section. Me not participating in enough RPs, really? You just had a few bad games and try to generalize it, that's all.


Alright, firstly. I was in old guild nearly since it opened, so don't be trying that elitist I was here first and longest bs. secondly, I have played in many, many rps. and many, many of them fail due to guns and the dick measuring that follows, a decent amount of which you were in as well. It's not just a few bad games and trying to generalize it. You're generalizing by saying I've had a few bad games. That's all.

Anyways. I agree with TSG, the GM will decide on this issue of guns. Regardless of his decision, I will stick with the nrp.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by ethanjory
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<Snipped quote by TheSovereignGrave>

Because it only matters what the GM will say. This argument is literally accomplishing nothing: everyone will just keep trying to justify their opinions and never convincing the others of anything.


There's no convincing necessary. You just have to accept the fact that I'm always right.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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WIP Sheet
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Tortoise
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<Snipped quote by Jeyma>

There's no convincing necessary. You just have to accept the fact that I'm always right.


I think you just summarized the entire Nation Roleplay genre.

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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Little Bill
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Sorry! Girlfrando was using computer today for search for jobs.
No guns.

EDIT: For clarification, no guns because they make battles less fun. Guy with a gun versus armed knight, trained archer, outlandish barbarian, fancy duelist, it's pretty much always gonna be guy with a gun. Cannon versus champion fighter, stone wall, fast ship, it's pretty much always gonna be cannon. I feel like the addition of firearms trumps any specialized thing another country can have or do.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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I feel it really does have a point because it spreads information how the whole "guns in medieval age" is less of a boogieman and more like a historical fact and people should really grown out from the preconception that guns suddenly made armor and castles useless when both actually was in the process of their greatest development yet. If people turn this into a superweapon then it's everyone's duty to crack down on them.
If we are at it, did you know that by the 16th century there are some amazing repeating guns, I am talking about revolver "musket" or actual repeater gun with separate ball and powder magazines that loaded both in precise order when the right levers were pulled on it. Yet you don't see these dominating wars, either.
One reason is because they were expensive and only a limited number of people could make them. So were wheelocks. Actually IIRC Switzerland made a few hundred repeater guns by the late times regardless.
So why there are no terrifying tales about super gunmen rapidly mowing down masses?
Maybe because war is more than just a bunch of videogame stats. Maybe because there's a good reason why crossbows were actually a superior weapon to bows even though the difference in fire rate. And lastly because there's always the stinking logistics.
If a nation has gun-heavy army make sure they have all the right reasons for that. And while guns have advantages they also have their nuances and drawbacks. You should learn to use that.
I don't give a damn if my enemy has awesome wheelock muskets loaded with solid gold bullets. There's still a myriad ways to beat them.
And one of those actually involves heavy cavalry, the thing some argue would the gun make obsolete.

Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Monkeypants
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So, Spleen. I'll be hiring your people for sure.

@Jeyma, How does your nation feel about other expansive oceanic empires.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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Its a moot point since the GM said no guns. =P
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Sorry! Girlfrando was using computer today for search for jobs.
No guns.
Does it mean we are back in the 12th century?
That would have some...very un-fun consequences.
Like the tiny island out far away from Essos never able to interact with any of the other players.
Or the absence of castles as we know them, knights in shining armor and crossbows being a rare and kinda dubiously effective weapon outside sieges.
Heck, you don't even have counterweight trebuchets (albeit nor you need them).

EDIT: For clarification, no guns because they make battles less fun. Guy with a gun versus armed knight, trained archer, outlandish barbarian, fancy duelist, it's pretty much always gonna be guy with a gun. Cannon versus champion fighter, stone wall, fast ship, it's pretty much always gonna be cannon. I feel like the addition of firearms trumps any specialized thing another country can have or do.
How?
Battles have so many important elements you can't even generalize them by category.
Guy with a gun versus a swordsman on a narrow staircase. Swordsman cuts down the gunner before the guy even have time to lit the match on his gun.
It also worth mentioning that even with muskets and their extremely heavy bullets plate armored knight could be safe until they are about 30 meters from them. They feared heavy crossbows much more.
Guns are useful in the right conditions and doctrines with them.
Even then gunners marching up in a line and shoot style tactics were not used exactly because of them fearing heavy cavalry.
Guns are unfun if you give them abilities they don't have.

Also fancy duelist? I thought you explicitly prohibited people to write about "special superskilled swordsmen of cool" in their army descriptions.

Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Tortoise
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<Snipped quote by DeadBeatWalking>Does it mean we are back in the 12th century?
That would have some...very un-fun consequences.
Like the tiny island out far away from Essos never able to interact with any of the other players.
Or the absence of castles as we know them, knights in shining armor and crossbows being a rare and kinda dubiously effective weapon outside sieges.
Heck, you don't even have counterweight trebuchets (albeit nor you need them).


That's all irrelevant.

We can have all that technology you mentioned, but without guns, because the GM says that's what he wants.

Realism doesn't matter outside of History and Slice-of-Life RPs. Moot points.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Tortoise
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So, Spleen. I'll be hiring your people for sure.

@Jeyma, How does your nation feel about other expansive oceanic empires.


Very worried. Very nervous. Very "let's... let's be friends, okay?"
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Darkspleen
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@Jeyma Only if you pay my peeps large sums of money to kill people for you. XP
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