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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Classpet
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@Airalin
The ground, Camilla noticed immediately, was burning hot, searing hot even. She imagined her hands and knees must've been scraped pretty badly or at least a little burnt on account of the heat but as she picked herself up off the ground she could see no sign of injury at all. She looked through all the people hurrying past, suddenly very aware of her loneliness. She'd ran off without her friends and now she was lost.

Like an answer to her thoughts a voice called out her name. She turned to the familiar sound, already beaming. She scrambled over toward Abby, dodging between passer-bys. "Abby!" she said excitedly reaching towards her. Another voice called above her's, mimicking Abby's call for her, though deeper and much louder. Camilla grabbed Abby's hand and inched behind her. Through the all the people she could see him, distressed his dark eyes sweeping the streets.


"Abby we have to go, he's a criminal probably," she whispered urgently, "wheres everyone else?"
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Balthazar007
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Ricardo's mind lied somewhere between the brink of insanity and slipping out of consciousness. He had to finish what he started. By now, Andy was reaching out with his other hand for the wall. Once he was able to start pulling himself up, Ricardo let go and began doing the same...

A wave of relief washed over Ricardo's entire being as he laid on the stone sidewalk, next to a completely naked Andy. Poor guy looked miserable lying there. "How is he ever going to recover from such trama?" Ricardo thought to himself. Then another thought hit him. He too was naked; while never fully immersed in the lava, the heat had caused a fire to creep up and eat away at the rest of his shirt. Thinking back to all the scantly dressed people near the city's center, their appearance wouldn't cause much alarm. Still, the instinct to be covered was strong enough to move his hands over his crotch.

As the last of his skin finished repairing itself, Ricardo sat up to speak out to Andy, "Hey. Are you awake?"
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Invader Len
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Andy blinked hard, dizzy, his eyes blurry. God, what was that smell? Where was he? The last thing he remembered was those kids pushing him around... And into the lava. He sat up like a bolt, rubbing away the fog over his eyes. He was alive! And out of the river! And... Naked.
He covered his loins with his hands, realizing the horrid smell was burning blood, a trail he had tracked from the river. There was cooled lava around him, solid and flaking away from his skin when he moved. He ran one hand through his hair, surprised to find that, not only was it there, it was the exact same length he had had it before. Was this the work of the healing factor too?

"Hey. Are you awake?"
Andy looked up at the speaker, relieved to see it was a familiar face. Ricardo! Also naked and covered in grime. Had he saved him? He felt an indescribable wave of gratitude welling up in his chest. No one had ever done something like that for him, certainly not subjecting themselves to the same torture he had endured. He nodded in answer, opening his mouth and trying to command his unruly tongue.
"Y-Y-Yessss! Ssssank y-you, R-Riiic-cardo." he stammered out, his intonation running wild. Still, it was the first sentence he had managed to say in his life, however mangled it was. He could learn to speak more... And he had a friend.

He shakily stood up, almost lurching forwards for another tumble into the lava. He caught himself in time, regaining his balance with his arms outstretched. He took several steps back from the edge, vowing to never step within ten feet of the molten rock for as long as he lived. He had to be more careful now, especially around these new inhabitants. He looked Ricardo over, seeing he wasn't hurt.
"W-W-Weee m-musst beee c-ca-careful. P-Peeople not ssssafe. N-N-Neeeed f-find C-Camiiilla a-and Abbyyy." he slurred, too busy thinking to be concerned with his speech. The girls were still in a dangerous city. If the kids here were capable of torture, there was no thinking what adults could do.
"W-Weee n-neeed pantssss too. A-And p-paper. I-I-I n-not gooood at sssspeakiiing. N-No p-p-practiiice." he added, trying to convey apologies in his tone. He'd be embarrassed, both at his terrible vocalizations and his nudity, but they were still in danger. Embarrassment could wait.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Airalin
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One moment, Cam rushed over to join Abby. The next, a man's voice echoed her call. Ignoring the chill running up her spine, Abby quickly peered around the corner and made eye contact with the bloodied miscreant who had been speaking.

"He looks more dangerous than I ever was," she muttered in response to the little girl's words. "A lunatic and a pack of killer children. I think I've had more than enough of this place. Let's go."

She strode farther into the alley, unable to ignore the trembling of her hands. What kind of idiot would put her on babysitting duty? Not only did she have no clue how to deal with children, but she wasn't even a nice person.

"I have no idea where the others are. Hopefully they've escaped from this place by now, because that's exactly what I intend to do," said Abby, emerging onto another street and quickly weaving her way through the crowd, craning her neck in search of some sign that they might be near the edge of town. "Do you know that man?" she asked. Cam. That was what he had been calling. That was Abby's nickname for her companion. How had this guy figured it out? Had he been lurking in the shadows while she had been searching and heard it from her own mouth? The thought gave her goosebumps. "Do you have any idea where we are?" she asked, "I'm starting to miss that awful room..."
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Classpet
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Camilla nodded her head in agreement, the man was crazy and the children were demons here. When Abby made to leave, she was more than happy to follow. Her pace was not so hard to keep up with but as they got into more and more crowded streets she felt as though she could become lost again at any moment.

Taking Abby's hand seemed like the best solution, and though her shaking was concerning, it was better than holding nothing at all.

The longer they walk the faster Abby seemed to go. People shoved past them, in a rush to whatever the town had to offer. Each time somebody ran into her she feared it would be him, but it never was.

Abby's inquiries didn't help to ease her worries. It was all she could do to answer “I’ve never seen him before,” and “I don't know, I'm sorry” loud enough to be heard over the din of the city, let alone to explain the whole series of events that led to a stranger to be chasing her.
@Airalin


Frantically he peered over the tops of people's heads, she must be close by she was just so close. But then again hadn't there been a trial just like this before, taunting him with the one thing in life he missed the most. No. She had to be real. He had to find her. He would do it if it killed him, though knowing this place it wouldn't.

A shift in the alley way, and the briefest glance of a teenager before she disappeared.

He didn't know why but he felt she had something to do with Cam, and he needed to follow her. He pushed through the crowded always falling just close enough behind to keep up.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Balthazar007
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Andy's speech might need practice, but Ricardo could make out what he was saying. He nodded in agreement at everything Andy was saying, feeling a stab of guilt when Cammila and Abby were brought up. Honestly, after the pain that he just went through, he wasn't even thinking about the two girls.

"You're right. And we got to find a way out of here." Ricardo began to stand, keeping his hands in front of his crotch.

"Hello there!" A male's voice was calling out to the two of them. It came from a few buildings up the river side, one of the buildings Ricardo ran past on his way to save Andy. A man dressed in all black with an unbuttoned shirt was leaning out the side of his clothing shop. "You too look horrible! And pretty fucking naked too! Come get some clothes, unless you like that 'natural' look." Without waiting for a response, the man dissapeared into the building, leaving the door wide open behind him.

Did the man see Ricardo run by in a panic? How long had he been watching? Had he seen the whole torturing event happen and decided to do nothing more than offer clothes after the fact. Ricardo found the people of this city disgusting.

Turning to Andy, Ricardo spoke, "Well, I guess that solves one immediate problem."

Instead of waiting for a verbal response, Ricardo began leading the way to the clothing shop. Inside, the man sat on top of a check out counter, instead of standing behind it like a normal shopkeeper. "What are you looking at? Pick out some clothes. They're free. There are some changing rooms over there if you need some privacy." The man's final statement caused a wry smile to creep across his face. He obviously found the whole situation amusing. Ricardo was disliking him more and more, but at least he could be clothed.

Looking around, Ricardo wasn't very sure of what to think. The whole place reminded him of some sort of kink dungeon, Hot Topic, goth mixture. He did like to wear black, but skin tight leather, spikes, and straps were not his style. In the back, he found some clothes airing on the more normal side, tight black jeans and a tight black shirt. The jeans had a few non functional chains in weird places, but otherwise, it was something Ricardo would normally wear. He then looked around; he'd lost sight of Andy a couple minutes ago, but he knew the boy couldn't be far.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Invader Len
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The sudden shout startled the boy, glancing past Ricardo to see the man half-hanging through the doorway. Andy's face flushed with color at the reminder that he was naked, and that people saw him. Honestly, he had forgotten that there were others around. The cooing and giggling of effeminate voices from the balconies above reached his ears, and Andy now realized they'd had a very public audience. Suddenly he was very eager to get new clothes, regardless of the man's temperament or rudeness.

He followed Ricardo into the man's shop, eager to cover up and escape the calls and whistles. The interior of the store and its contents, however, made him rethink stepping inside. The clothes here seem more fit for demons or Dracula than people! Why was everything so black and spiky?! Half of the clothes here hardly resembled clothes at all! This was obscene!

Still... It was better than being naked. And the longer he stayed this way, the more he could feel burning eyeballs being pointed at his rear end. And if Ricardo could do it, then so could he! He plunged forwards into the racks and shelves of clothes, seeking out something decent to wear. Eventually he found a T-shirt that wasn't ripped up or covered in vile studs and spikes, some dark denim jeans, underwear, and boots. He rushed to the aforementioned changing rooms as fast as his legs could carry him, eager to get into something sane.

And once again, his hopes for familiarity and comfort were thwarted. Why was everything so damn tight?! The underwear he didn't mind hugging his figure, but the black jeans clung to him so tightly it was like not wearing jeans at all! It wasn't that they were uncomfortable, no, they stretched and moved in ways that were very uncharacteristic of denim, but they were just so... Tight! The red shirt was the same. The color had stuck out to him, being amongst his favorites, and though the size matched his previous, he had to struggle to get it over his own head. At least the boots were normal, though heavy and hard to lace up, reminiscent of military combat footwear.

Feeling shyer exiting the stall than he had been going it, Andy returned to the main body of the store, snagging a leather jacket and a messenger bag from off the racks to help feel more covered. He spotted Ricardo and quickly caught up to him, desperately not wanting to be left behind again.
"R-R-Riiicardo!" He called, hopefully getting his attention. He passed by a disturbing black mask with a zipper for a mouth, feeling an unwanted shiver run down his spine.
"S-s-sssso w-weird! N-N-nev-ver beeeen iiin p-p-place like t-th-th-this. G-G-Gives me c-c-c-creepssss..." He stammered, casting an uneasy eye back to the shopkeeper.

"W-W-Weee sh-should leave. F-Find-d th-the girls. S-s-safer t-together, right?" He asked, looking for some sense of direction. Ricardo might not know where he was going either, but he might have seen a better place to start looking than Andy did. For some reason, his memories directly before, during, and after falling in the lava were fuzzy, almost like there was something blocking him from remembering. Was it just he trauma from the pain? Weird.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Classpet
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@Airalin@Invader Len@Balthazar007
The street, flooded with people closer to the center of the vibrant city, seemed relatively calm after the pair had been walking for a time. The rowdiness here seemed to be locked away behind the doors of the towering buildings. A red glow emitted from a trench alongside the road making the whole place looked like the image of the Underworld Camilla had heard of from the many stories she'd been told as a child of the gods. No, this place was not the exact likeness but the legends did say that no one could ever leave the underworld, at least not mortals.

And the ground, Camilla noticed, had become uncomfortably hot. Every step was like walking on hot coals. I'll need to find some sandals she thought, and new clothes too she added mentally as she took note of the state of her clothes. A store was not hard to find but one that looked inviting seemed impossible to locate. They all had a dark air about them, scantly clad women laughed from above the store fronts and the displays were all of dark and tight clothing that hardly seemed appropriate for a girl from her time period, let alone one of her age.

"Hey girlies," shouted a man standing just outside a store "You's looking pretty fuckin' outa place, you need somin' to blend in?"
The pair kept walking, even going a little faster than before. "You seem in an awful hurry," he said as they passed, "aww alright then."
A few stores later a man nearly bumped into them leaving something about him seemed familiar but the clothes were just like everyone else around and too soon they had already passed him.

Camilla stared at him trying to determine who it was. "Andy?" she whispered half to herself. The guy had the same looking face and build. "Andy! It's Andy and Ricardo!" she yelled pulling Abby towards the boys.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Airalin
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Abby nearly jumped out of her skin when Cam suddenly called out Andy's name and began guiding her toward a pair of strangely dressed men. She hadn't dared meet the eyes of anyone else in this odd place, but once she allowed herself a good look at their faces she realized they really were Ricardo and Andy. She looked them up and down and frowned. Chains on Ricardo's jeans? Especially tight clothing? Where - and more importantly, why - had they changed outfits?

Ignoring formalities, Abby said, "Is there a safe clothes store around here?" As she stood, she shifted her weight back and forth between her bare feet, the ground scorching her soles. With the two men at her side, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to check out a shop and find an appropriate pair of shoes. Something durable. Goodness knew they were walking a rough road.

She glanced over her shoulder in search of the man who had been stalking them before and saw nothing. Of course, that didn't mean he was gone.

"Some guy has been following us," she half-whispered, loud enough for her companions to hear, but no one else. "It's possible we lost him, but I sort of doubt it. It would be best if we hid from sight for a little while - then exited the place we take refuge through a different door than we use to enter. I know he can't do lasting harm, but..." She shivered. Who knew what a man who creeped on a little girl like Cam was capable of?
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Balthazar007
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Abby and Camilla, they were safe. Ricardo thought that it would take hours to locate the two of them, but fate seemed to be smiling down upon them, for once. The idea of the two girls being followed was disturbing to say the least.

Ricardo spoke up, "As far as shoes go, this shop behind us has some boots." His voice then softened a little, "As far as your stalker, Andy and I can stay watch out here while you grab some boots. There didn't seem to be any back entrances in there. We'll just have to move on to the next place and go from there."

But where should they go? This thought and more plagued Ricardo's mind. The group needed to get out of this forsaken city. 'It's no place for a little one like Cam' he thought. Hell, it was no place for any decent human being. They would have to start asking around, he concluded. The only problem would be that most of the people in this city didn't seem that concerned with helping. Still, asking a local would be better than walking around blind... maybe...
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Invader Len
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Was there divine providence in this crazy world, or was it by sheer dumb luck that they had all caught up together so quickly? He didn't know, and right now he couldn't care. The only thing he knew was how awash with relief he was, seeing the girls safe and unharmed. Andy broke out into a bright smile, one that was quickly dampened as Abby told them of a ominous stalker that had followed them, apparently targeting Camilla. The thought of anyone doing something to her... That made his blood run cold. While they couldn't die and all physical injuries healed quickly here, there was no telling the psychological effects that could remain because of torture.

Then Ricardo spoke up, and volunteered that they could watch the street while the girls looked for footwear. Andy quickly nodded in agreement, piping up.
"Y-Y-Y-Yess, g-g-get sh-shoesss. B-B-Be c-c-careful, c-c-clothesss here a-a-are weird." he offered, looking down at his own unfortunate wardrobe in obvious disappointment. He turned to Ricardo, taking a moment to try and formulate his words before he spoke. If he kept stammering like an idiot, it would take him forever to be heard. They didn't have forever.
"B-B-Bef-fore th-the lava, I-I was mak-k-king a map-p. M-Maybe w-we can f-f-find one n-nearb-b-by? O-Or t-t-town h-hall? P-P-Place thisss b-big must have ssssome k-kind of hi- hier- hereraky-... S-Sssome kind of bossss." He suggested, frustratedly giving up on the word 'hierarchy'. Looked like it would be a while before he could move on to big words. He just hoped he could get his meaning across on monosyllables.

Looking back at the store behind them, he found himself struck by a thought.
"W-W-Where d-do you th-th-think all th-th-thisss ssstuff c-comesss from?" He asked, realizing that he had never seen any farms, factories, or anyone crafting their wares either up in the city, or down here in the... lava city? Not to mention, these places didn't have names, not that he knew of. Where did all the stuff in the stores and on the street come from? They couldn't just magically appear, could they? There had to be some kind of supply. Maybe if they found that, they could get more clues as to the true nature of this bizarre dimension.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Classpet
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Camilla beamed, she had found their friends, and at last they could leave. Abby’s reminder of their stalker only furthered this desire. She nodded vigorously in agreement as the older girl explained the situation to the boys. Of course, shoes. She thought when Ricardo brought it up. But the shoes that the boys had on were strange and dark, they didn’t look like anything she’d ever seen. The clothes a well, they were like a second skin almost. Time, she figured changed a lot of things. There would be many more things to come that wouldn’t make sense to her.
At the present it seemed best to just go along with whatever antics came about, especially if it would help them leave faster.

Camilla start inside but Andy’s question catches her off guard before she makes it in. He has a valid point, everything is just sor of there and nobody asks any questions. It reminded her, with a sad pang of wistfulness, of how her mother would often come home packed with fabrics and food, Gaynora in tow with still more. She’d never thought of how they obtained the money for the goods or where the stores even got the riches from. Clearly they had to come from somewhere.
She shuffled into the store without answering, what would she say anyway.

Dark clothes line the walls and isles, flashes of blood red stuck out from in between black unnatural leather and it seemed that there wasn’t any even vaguely normal clothes to be found. Feeling pressed for time she settled on a dark red dress and jacket covered in spikes and embroidered imagery. As for shoes, all the store had was tall dark boots and so that’s what she got.

As she peered around the store for Abby she caught a glimpse of herself in the glass front of the store. The person staring back was completely foreign. I look like that? She thought. It wasn’t like she hadn’t ever seen her reflection before, but the alien clothes made her look strange and out of place and yet blend right in all at the same time. She hoped they would all be able to move on soon.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Airalin
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Abby glared from one rack to the next once she'd followed Cam inside the clothing store. She didn't like what she was seeing at all. Of course, she had no problem with wearing black, but punk type clothing like this really wasn't her style. Still, she needed to take something.

The first thing she snagged, despite her repulsion, was a black tanktop with a picture of a bleeding heart on the front. She hated the graphic, but there was very little in the way of choice in this miserable little shop. Thankfully, it didn't take her too much digging to find a black skirt. Determined not to look like a complete goth, she added a white jacket to her ensemble despite her distaste for the color - in a place like this, it would be stained in about five minutes - and threw a pair of low-heeled boots with spikes along the edges into the pile. Face burning, she sought out a changing room and quickly got to work.

It was only after changing that she realized the skirt didn't even fall to her knees.

Gritting her teeth, Abby stalked out of the small room and decided she would be stopping again at the first decent looking shop they could find. Impatiently, she scanned the store for Cam, and quickly found the little girl wearing clothing that didn't suit her at all. Who the hell made spiked jackets in that size?

"All set?" she asked, putting a hand on Cam's shoulder. Despite her attempt to sound calm, her irritation seeped into her voice. The sooner they left this classless place - and the creeps who lived in it - the better off they would be.
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Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Balthazar007
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Now that the whole crew was looking like something out of a 80's punk rock video, it was time to move on. But did any of them know where to start? No, they were all lost.

Ricardo swallowed these thoughts of uncertainty. "Come on. We are all ready to get out of here as soon as possible. Let's get moving." Picking a random direction, Ricardo began to walk. His pace was just short of a fast walk, leaving room for shorter legged members of the group.

This place was getting old quick. Fighting, kissing, yelling, it was like all sense of humility had escaped these people. He had to shake his gaze away from a couple of women embracing each other in the most passionate of kisses, hands exploring. Eyes forward. The goal is to get out.

Suddenly, from around a dark alley corner, two thuggish looking figures appeared. One was a long blonde haired man with a black eye patch. The other man had dark short hair and a smile that screamed danger. Both men wore matching black suits, free from formal ties but otherwise very dapper.

The blonde haired man spoke first "Hi there!" He tried to sound charming, but his dark aura was too evident. "I don't think I've seen you three around here. Do they look new to you, Jax?"

The dark haired man replied, much less concerned with hiding his intent. "You're right. They look like fresh meat." Suddenly he spoke up, shouting over the top of the groups head. "What do we do with fresh meat?!"

On command, a horde of rough looking men and women began to filter out from between all the surrounding buildings. Every one of them wore similar business casual suits, and every one of them reeked of malice. It was hard to pick out where the reply came from, but a man's voice responded, "We welcome them humbly... with our fists." Then a woman's voice, "...and with our blades." Then, as if on cue, the sound of guns cocking back all at once permeated the air.

The crowd quickly started to become restless with quite conversation before the blonde haired man raised one hand to the sky, immediately hushing them all. "Now, now, let's not get carried away." Looking back at the four punk rock fruit flies caught in their web of danger, he asked a question, "So tell us, do any of you know how to fight? You don't look like it."

Ricardo stood there, heart racing. He had only been in a hand full of street fights in his life (three to be exact), and not by choice. He actually one two of them, one with a lucky knock out punch. But these men and women looked more like the experienced mugger that left him bleeding out, half dead in a dumpster, on his mother's birthday no less.

After only a few seconds of silence, the blonde haired man snapped in anger, "I asked a question!!" With one deep breath he calmed back down to his original false smile.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Invader Len
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One of Andy's earliest memories was when he was only a little younger than five, and his mother had been forced to bring him along to the diner where she worked one day. He had very little recollection of the place aside from his mother, but he knew the sights, the tastes, the smells. Being so young and unable to hear, the new environment was chaotic, with many different faces, different people smiling at him or shaking their heads in some sort of sympathetic disappointment.

But there was one group of people who stuck out in his memories. Big, beefy men with thick mustaches and black clothing, with a woman with very red lips and a missing front tooth. His mother constantly shepherded him away from them, but he had been curious about them, of course. He constantly approached them and stared. Whatever they might have said, he hadn't heard, and anything they might have asked, he couldn't answer. When his mother's shift got off and it was time to go home, the woman with very red lips and a missing front tooth gave him a small wrapper filled with clear candies. He had eaten half of them before his mother found what he had, and her face paled in horror as she threw them away in the parking lot, then drove him home and put her fingers down his throat to make him throw up. He felt horrible for several days after that, and it left him in a delirious haze where visions of fire and rotten teeth danced in front of him.

This hellish city reminded him of those days in delirium, filled with confusion, anguish, pain, and a surprising lack of morals. And he didn't mean that in a puritanical sense, though he wished people would have more common decency. No, he was referring the the brawls, blood in the streets, mysterious body parts that might or might not have the rest of the body with them, and the seedy way people looked at them, even as a passing glance. This city, which had seemed so jubilant and full of life at first, now felt like a scene of constant danger. Andy didn't know if he was seeing things or just paranoid, but he swore they were being watched.

They left the main streets for the alleys, hoping for more security away from the open spaces where fights could easily spring out. This turned out to be a mistake, as two men stepped from the shadows, and suddenly they were surrounded by dozens of well armed lackeys. First they asked if any of them knew how to fight, then angrily demanded an answer. Andy tried not to flinch visibly at the roughness in his voice, but probably failed. He looked at Ricardo and Abby, then at Camilla. The other two were city folk, and Camilla was just a little kid. Andy might have lost more fights and beatings than he'd won, but he had endurance. And he knew how to throw a punch.

He slowly stepped forwards, trying to appear calm and cautiously put his hands up. He knew his stammering might screw this up for him, but it was worth a shot. And it wasn't like they could kill him. Maybe.
"I-I-I d-do. I-I c-can fight and sssshoot a-a-a rifle. H-H-Had p-plenty of p-practice on c-coyotesss." he said, managing to keep his voice cool and steady despite his stammering. Tough guys could smell fear off of you, and showing it meant that he would be fresh meat, like the other man said. He had to keep his act together.
"N-N-Name'sss A-Andy. C-Can't t-talk well, b-but I-I think alright. W-Write b-better. U-Usssed to b-b-be deaf'n m-mute. O-Oklahoma, 1980." Good so far, shorter sentences were easier to get out than long ones.
"W-Who're y-you? W-Why d-do you want usss?"
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Ricardo carted them all along just as soon as he could, Camilla could tell as much. It seemed none of them really like the city much, and after being through what she could only assume to be the worst of it, she didn't have any more reason to like it than the rest of them. As Ricardo led on it only seemed to get worse. There was no sign of the bad man who knew her name but there was much more of everything else; shady vendor, devious strangers, brutish thug-like beings, everyone everywhere she looked seemed like nothing but trouble waiting to happen.

Then, as though matters needed to be made worse out stalked two strange men. The introduction was nice enough, but to soon things went sour. The dark haired mans shout echoed over their heads, and her heart beat sky rocketed. The reply to his call cemented her fears; they were going to die here. Magical healing might fix burns or scrapes but knives used deliberately to harm, or people trained to kill with their hands, probably not. This time around she could do nothing but wait for the older people to work things out.
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