Same, though what I really need is to fix a few grammatical errors in my last emote. I had consumed two beers last night before posting, and should like to rectify those scant flaws before too long.

Feel free. I constantly run back through old posts to correct my grammar...

@Doc Doctor

OKAY, time to clear this up.

I did read your profile, believe me, and I'll admit I made some assumptions about how the Beardforce works, thanks to the specific wording therein, namely:

The Beardforce is based upon Gonad's perception of an opponent...

...which led me to believe that the Beardforce had calculated and adjusted Gonad's speed and power based on how strong he perceived Lobo Negro to be, and what he imagined him to be capable of after their first few exchanges in the fight itself, instead of by hopping over to the Character thread to read his sheet. That was my bad, I should have asked for clarification, but hey, now I know. But even after that I wracked my brain, trying to figure out just how it had gotten past me that the vaunted Beardforce ignored any and all obstacles between it and its target when it finally hit me, once again, in your own words:

...Even through helmets Gonad's blows have proven their potency, for although such things may absorb shock and prevent superficial injury, they do not do much slow the rate at which the brain bounces off its protective walls...

How else was I to understand that other than to mean that Gonad’s blows, presumably empowered by the Beardforce since you made no mention otherwise, have been softened by helmets before? Or that another helmet, once further reinforced to resist impact as well as shocks, would somehow prove wholly ineffective when your own post states the opposite? Yeah, you made mention that the brain was directly knocked even though the helmet worked but I just figured that was you not understanding that the shock of an impact IS, what knocks the brain around to cause a concussion, so I ignored it. Again, my bad, aparently.

All told, your sheet said one thing, your post said another, so I followed your post and reacted accordingly. If you're telling me now that I should have followed the sheet, after the wording of your post falsely led meto believe that I was enacting an actionable defense, then by all means I will follow the sheet from now on, and I will edit my post yet again to reflect this new information.

What I won't do is allow myself to be written into a corner because your post contradicts either itself, your character sheet, or both.

@Negatomsk

I think you're misunderstanding Doc's argument: it isn't the actual shock, but the force transfer and resulting acceleration of the skull that he is alluding to. No matter how durable a helmet, its durability won't influence the rate of acceleration; rather, that would be what its weight, and the resulting inertia accomplish.

As result, the skull will accelerate as normal - taking into account the head's total weight and the resistance of the neck muscle - and the brain, suspended within the cranial caivty, will actually be directly impacted by the full force of the skull's movement.

Headgear can still help is the force is somehow directly absorbed: for exmaple, through deformation or breaking, which makes padding and ceramic ballistic plates good at what they do - but simply distributing the force over a larger surface will have no effect over the acceleration. Not too sure which of those two Lobo's armor does; or if both.

However,

As Gonad's head shot forward, Lobo's was rocked backwards from the impact

the act of acceleration is clearly stated in your own post; what's left hanging is it's magnitude.

Ah, and i think Doc mentioned Beardforce's ability to bypass supernatural influences as something that would counteract the Roaring Flame's influence over Lobo's armor?

@Vordak

I know how helmets work, which was why, once again, I specifically stated that mine was designed to resist impacts, and not just shock. Run a car into a stop sign you will flatten it. Run a car into a bollard specifically designed to stop vehicles and you will total your ride and possibly kill yourself.

Lobo's helmet is specially modified to resist impacts, by way of treating it in an energy designed to absorb and dull them.

Lobo's head snapped back as a reaction to an action, and I felt justified, by way of my understanding of how his attack was functioning, in determining for myself how heavy the impact was.

As for the Beardforce, I already covered in my earlier argument.

Eh. My only duty here was to make sure everybody properly understood the mechanics of a knockout. Everything else, i'm letting you, Doc and Pollen handle.

I know how helmets work, which was why, once again, I specifically stated that mine was designed to resist impacts, and not just shock. Run a car into a stop sign you will flatten it. Run a car into a bollard specifically designed to stop vehicles and you will total your ride and possibly kill yourself.

Lobo's helmet is specially modified to resist impacts, by way of treating it in an energy designed to absorb and dull them.

See there's a difference between your example of a bollard and a helmet, being that a bollard isn't flexible and doesn't bend to pressure applied against it. The force here isn't just being applied to your skull, it's also being applied to your neck. Your head, upon impact, will have the momentum of the headbutt carry through and like Newton's Cradle,

You're going to find your head lashing back. Now, this helmet may be designed to absorb impact force, but that doesn't mean he halts all force being directed against him. Lobo's helmet is not Captain America's shield, it's not going to stop everything dead on impact.

Therefore the shock isn't from cranium meeting mask. It's from the brain being wracked about inside its skull as the head whips back. This is, by all accounts, a clean knockout when you consider that Gonad's might coupled with the power amp granted by the Beardforce evaluating the overall strength of its foe results in a lot more than just a simple sneeze-butt. (hah, sneeze-butt.)

Also, as for Gonad's perception, that's different. Gonad must perceive someone to be a threat in order for the Beardforce to evaluate them. The Beardforce does the rest in terms of power-scaling.

You're going to find your head lashing back. Now, this helmet may be designed to absorb impact force, but that doesn't mean he halts all force being directed against him Lobo's helmet is not Captain America's shield, it's not going to stop everything dead on impact.

Holy shit, thank YOU, kind sir or madam, in deciding FOR ME just how resistant my own character's gear is to impacts, as well as its ability to absorb them before distributing the force back to the wearer!

I understand everyone wanting to come to your pal's defense, but with all due respect, please mind your own business. None of you have any vested interest in this and I'm quite sure Doc can argue for himself, which was why I clearly stated that there were to be no judges.

Kindly back the hell up.

@Doc Doctor

You aint my pal, buddy.

...
Also, as for Gonad's perception, that's different. Gonad must perceive someone to be a threat in order for the Beardforce to evaluate them. The Beardforce does the rest in terms of power-scaling.

Just to make one thing clear, here...this would be both powergaming and metagaming, insofar as I understand either rule in a general sense. The Beardforce being allowed to know the entirety of Lobo's sheet from the word Go in order to amplify Gonad to the theoretical maximum that Doc believes Lobo capable of is...problematic, in a rather staggeringly high number of ways. Not least of which is permitting Gonad to know, simply by saying "U BAD GUY", exactly how powerful his foe is and what that foe is capable of. Heh...as I recall, a very much significantly lesser and vastly more limited version of the same sort of sensory ability is what got me permabanned from all tournaments forever here, ne?

The Beardforce allowing Gonad to match Lobo's own demonstrated power is one thing, letting him even the field. The Beardforce allowing him to pick whatever field he likes and completely disregard anything Lobo might do is another thing entirely.

Anyways. Insofar as the rest of it goes, I'll let Negatomsk and Doc do their own debating. I'm sure we all have our opinions on how the fight is proceeding and I understand that all the RPGuild regulars are rootin' for Doc to show all us Luchalliance punters What Our Place Is and such so we stop botherin' y'all...but it's not your fight, @RiDaku. It's not yours either, @Vordak. It's not mine either, which is why I'm restricting my comment to the given Beardforcism and not the actual mechanics of the fight. Let's let the fighters do their fighting, ne?

@DLL

oi, broski. i already stated my mission, and it's not to help Doc out. it's just to make sure everybody's got the good knowledge.

@Vordak One of the dueling participants has now made the request that you and all others not involved mind your own business. Were you an agreed upon third party judge? If not then kindly remain in the peanut gallery and do not interfere again.

This is a fight between Doc and Black (Negatomsk), and the reigning judge is Pollen. All others need to keep their opinions to themselves. Period.

@Negatomsk
Sorry for the late response, work is a bitch.

It seems the core of your argument is that Lobo's costume can absorb and redistribute force. If that's the case, I do believe I'm justified in calling a checkmate, with all due respect.

Keep in mind that the only description of Lobo's costume existing in regards to physical damage is a "heavy resistance", nothing about the mechanics of that resistance. Now, the heavy shit.

Remember before our fight, you brought up my match with Sky? I told you in no uncertain terms that...

I went easy on your friend, and accomodated him to an incredible extent. He'd have lost in a single action if I had been more insistent on the function of Gonad's beardforce. Broken knuckles from the blocked punch, a broken wrist from the awkward way he tried to block the bear slap.

Sky had kinetic dampening, absorbtion, and dissipation that was an explicit ability of his. I flat out told you that the Beardforce should have broken his bones anyways, so you can't claim that Lobo could have endured the headbutt. Like I said, I don't enjoy being 'that guy', but in a ranked match I'm plenty more strict.

In every way, shape, and form, I have made it clear that Gonad isn't supposed to be fought as if he were a traditional martial artist. He's a physical monster, whose blows I have genuinely likened to swords and maces being used on a normal human in his profile.
Lobo took the hit, and that hit is absolutely a knockout blow.

@DLL

You're right, but fortunately the Beardforce does not work in the manner you described. Gonad doesn't learn anything intimate through it, no meta knowledge or shit like that. He simply feels a power boost and then starts trying to crush the enemy before him to the best of his ability. If the enemy tries to hold back to keep the Beardforce weak until a vital moment, it won't work. If your character can go Super Saiyan and he's fighting in base form, Gonad will be at Super Saiyan levels.

Power playing is trying to control the other dude's character, or trying to influence things your character shouldn't be able to. Did I demand that Negatomsk step right up to Gonad and accept a knockout headbutt? He did all of that through choice.

Edit: Because this is a high priority post that contributes to the resolution of the match, I'm taggin' Pollen.
@Drifting Pollen

Ho. LEE. Shit. Do you even know how to read?

Once again YOUR OWN POST mentions helmets being used to absorb the force of Hu headbutts.

I mentioned that two of our members have beaten you, I never mentioned which two. You assumed I meant Sky, you assumed I'd read his fight, so don't go putting words in my mouth or knowledge in my head.

And you're right. The Beardforce isn't power gaming. Powergaming is telling someone for a fact that you know their character isn't able to take a hit simply because they learned a few special abilities during their years of exhaustive, physical combat training, except --

Those who master [the Eight Styles] are purported to possess supernatural powers, able to run across thin air, walk unharmed through storms of bullets, pierce the hulls of battleships with their bare hands, wield the air itself as a blade, harden their skin like iron, and move at superhuman speeds.

-- he did.

No, the Beardforce is this:

Meta-Game - Using Out Of Character knowledge and information in character. Blatant unjustified actions is prohibited pertaining to precise disassembling of a character or ability/power they control. Retroactions and Precognition fall under this category. Information your character does not have access to constitutes as Meta-gaming.

Your Beardforce being able to know everything about a character's maximum strength, speed, and durability, as well as the exact amount of power you need to overcome all of that, with nothing but a glance is utterly broken. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming your power worked wholly on your own observation. Either it works on Gonad's observation, which is at best an estimate, or it can see far beyond his own eyes, directly into the character sheet to make its own measurements.

I really don't understand this logic. You're quoting supernatural powers like running across thin air, ignoring bullets, punching through ridiculous layers of steel, using nothing to fight something, tank incredible hits and move superfast..

..but you're going to call a supernatural ability bullshit? What? You can claim it's metagame but Gonad himself doesn't gain any actual knowledge. He doesn't know what your character can do, he doesn't gain any insight. He has a supernatural ability that allows him to increase in might to match the peak performance of the opponent, forcing them to use their peak. Leveling the field to a battle of actual skill and not "My powers are infinity and yours are punching things therefore you instantly lose". That is as much metagame as "You use fire magic so I use water magic, we're even!".

I really don't understand this logic. You're quoting supernatural powers like running across thin air, ignoring bullets, punching through ridiculous layers of steel, using nothing to fight something, tank incredible hits and move superfast..

..but you're going to call a supernatural ability bullshit?

None of my listed powers are instantly scale-able to match someone else's character sheet.

You can claim it's metagame but Gonad himself doesn't gain any actual knowledge. He doesn't know what your character can do, he doesn't gain any insight.

He doesn't need to gain the insight himself, it's inherent in the Beardforce, which explicitly DOES gain that insight, or else how can it match power to power? Who the fuck cares if I know how much weight Spider-Man can lift? Compare that to the number of people who would care if I could instantly lift the exact same amount that Spider-Man can lift. I don't personally need to know what that number is to be able to instantly throw a car.

Leveling the field to a battle of actual skill and not "My powers are infinity and yours are punching things therefore you instantly lose"

Except that for the fact that he can punch through any supernatural defense, punch intangible creatures and abstract concepts, that is literally exactly what he is himself doing. Instantly gaining the power to match an opponent is leveling the playing field. Ignoring any and all defenses an opponent could possibly enact (on top of the fact that his physical blows cannot be guarded against in any form) means he is not just leveling the playing field, but damn near clearing the opposite side of the board.

@Negatomsk

So you didn't mean Sky? Then by all means enlighten me. I'm genuinely curious. During my year and a half on this site, I've only ever lost twice, both times intentional. Sky was one of them, so prove me wrong. I dare you. I double dog dare you. Either way I mentioned Sky in the post immediately after the one where I stated that the Beardforce could break bones through such defenses. You say the Beardforce ignores any and all defenses enacted? Let's say Brock Lesnar came over to your house right now, and you had a repeating crossbow. He blocks your bolts with a frying pan or something lying around, walks up in front of you, grabs your weapon, and headbutts you because you didn't do anything to try and gain a tactical advantage. That's not ignoring all defenses enacted, that's taking advantage of someone too rock stupid to know how to defend themselves.

Edit. I don't want to drag Sky into something like this. It's bad enough I'm including him in my tough talk.

So as you can see with your own lying eyes, there is no way for you to weasel out of this by trying to twist my own meanings around. What's more, in my post I NEVER said that headgear was a drawback to the Beardforce. Again you're trying to twist my words around, seeking every little nook and cranny for escape no matter how desperate it looks.

Even through helmets Gonad's blows have proven their potency, for although such things may absorb shock and prevent superficial injury, they do not do much slow the rate at which the brain bounces off its protective walls.

"Proven their potency". That means it works through them. What's more, by saying "such things may absorb shock and prevent superficial injury", I simply stated the FUNCTION of practical helmets, not how the Beardforce reacts to them. I think you're the one who needs to learn how to read. You need to stop jumping the gun and try to grasp the situation.

Now, as for the metagaming claim, I have a few things to say.

You had full access to Gonad's profile and Arena fight history, and full well knew what you were getting into. By agreeing to this fight you accepted to have your character meet mine in combat, and as such it's not my problem if you think my character's powers are too great. Fact of the matter is, Lobo had just as much chance to beat Gonad, but you weren't able to prevent Gonad from invading Lobo's personal space and headbutting him into oblivion. You blame a lack of skill on OPness, on your dopey assumption that Lobo could just walk off a direct hit from another character's deadly implement, in this case, the baddest forehead on the market. If anything you're the one trying to powergame, by trying to have Lobo simply ignore a blow to his skull from a guy that makes a living killing things with unarmed blunt force bludgeoning. Get fucking real.

'The Beardforce knows.' Are you serious? Now you're just phrasing shit in a way that sounds unfair to you. It's an equalization power that lets Gonad hurt morons like you who don't know how to take proper hits, A.E, the headbutt from our aforementioned 'guy that makes a living killing things with unarmed blunt force bludgeoning'. What, you think it sounds fair for Lobo to endure that and "still have the presence of mind" to use a near instant four inch draw on his bow with tremendous killing power, and then land on his feet afterwards? Buddy, I know you know how this is, and I'm telling you now, cut it out. The way you're acting is ridiculous.

Is an energy scouter metagaming? You know, that neat little gadget from DBZ? Yes, I know that power levels change. Just think of the Beardforce as a scouter that can't be fooled. It doesn't peek into your little character sheet as if it had those little bouncy googly eyes. It measures how much latent power a character has and bolsters Gonad up to that level so that a bout can end decisively and with as little beating around the bush as possible. If you had stabbed Gonad in the heart, he'd not have "had the presence of mind" to still try and headbutt you. He'd have totally died, because his durability, though surely formidable, was equalized too. You had every bit as much a chance to hurt him as I had to hurt you, perhaps even more considering your *horribly misused* ranged game. Next time try more fakeouts, trick shots, ect. One of my faves is blasting out someone's foot right as they put their forwards weight onto it.

But even if you see that as metagaming, that's still your problem. You accepted the fight knowing how it worked, and now here you are complaining about it. No, yes, yes, I know what you want to say, what you want to say so very badly but know isn't true, and I've already read your other posts declaring it, so no need to try the same schtick. You knew how it worked, you know what I mean, and you do remember Sky. I told you before the fight, I told you.

@RiDaku

Please don't butt into the argument. As Dias mentioned up above, it's best if things are kept between the two fighters until the matter is resolved or a judge opinion is needed.

As that one dude in the Godzilla movie said, "Let them fight."